my invisible text
Categories
  • TIMELINE

Copyright Problem

<<

Aaron & Chris

User avatar

L-Gold Member
L-Gold Member

Posts: 318

Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 6:03 pm





Post Thu Jan 20, 2005 11:43 am

Copyright Problem

Hi Everyone

A while back we did a van for someone who is a Scania Specialist repairs guy. He had just setup and asked us to sticker his van.

He produced the wording himself and just asked us to add something to it to stand out. We used a silver graphic set back of the Griffin from the scania logo. This was only a partial image not the full logo.

We spoke to the customer today and he has told us that Scania who he used to work for have sent him a letter explaining there not happy with him using the graphics and some of the wording.

Is this our fault and if so what is the easiest way to correct the problem :cry:

Cheers

Chris & Aaron

PS We did warn him the Grifffin may get pulled up but we have no signed documents to say otherwise.
At the minute the customer is being fine with us but would like us to sort it out.
<<

Rodney Gold

User avatar

5 Star Contributor

Posts: 1324

Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2003 8:21 am





Post Thu Jan 20, 2005 12:05 pm

The sad news is that it is your problem , had the customer supplied the graphic and you just executed the job , you would be home free. Easiest way to make this a win-win thing is strip the graphic at your cost , apply something else and ask him to tell Scania he has removed the offending graphic.
<<

Aaron & Chris

User avatar

L-Gold Member
L-Gold Member

Posts: 318

Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 6:03 pm





Post Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:25 pm

hi

Phoned the Scania Guy and hes alright about taking the offending graphics off and replacing them. We also said we will do it at our cost. :(

He's also going to inform Scania about removing the graphics.

Just wondering what could Scania do next if they feel that is not enough and could this again come back to us, even after removal?

Cheers for the help

Chris & Aaron
<<

Gary Davis

L-Gold Member
L-Gold Member

Posts: 387

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:22 pm





Post Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:35 pm

Unable to offer advice, however this is an interesting thread, Rodney do you mean they would have to give you the file ?

If someone comes in and asks for say the scania logo on there truck, do they have to source the file for you to be in the clear? (unlikely customers would be able to obtain cut-ready logos!) Or if they ask you to and you vectorise it then are you liable?
<<

Aaron & Chris

User avatar

L-Gold Member
L-Gold Member

Posts: 318

Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 6:03 pm





Post Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:44 pm

hi

Phoned the Scania Guy and hes alright about taking the offending graphics off and replacing them. We also said we will do it at our cost. :(

He's also going to inform Scania about removing the graphics.

Just wondering what could Scania do next if they feel that is not enough and could this again come back to us, even after removal?

Cheers for the help

Chris & Aaron
<<

Bill.

5 Star Contributor

Posts: 3360

Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2003 10:29 am





Post Thu Jan 20, 2005 2:15 pm

9 times out of 10 copyright action is taken with a simple cease and desist notice to begin with. Rarely do companies want to down the route of legal action immediately, especially against small firms. It can be an expensive process and the likelyhood of them getting a large payout at the end of it, well its just unlikely.

If you've agreed to replace the graphic and wording with the customer, Scania will probably leave it at that. The only way of checking this would be to ring Scania direct and ask, but it kind of highlights you as the guilty culprit. At the moment they're directing their comments to your customer, it may be better to leave it that way.

Cheers, Dewi
<<

Aaron & Chris

User avatar

L-Gold Member
L-Gold Member

Posts: 318

Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 6:03 pm





Post Thu Jan 20, 2005 2:26 pm

Cheers Rodney & Dewi

You have put our minds at ease and our under wear (i think) may live to fight another day.

Hopefully that will be the end of it!! :D

PS Downloaded that terms and Conditions for sign companies and it shall always now be signed!! :wink:

Cheers again

Chris & Aaron
<<

Shane Drew

User avatar

5 Star Contributor

Posts: 11424

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 12:22 pm





Post Thu Jan 20, 2005 2:32 pm

Dewi is right.

Let scania deal with your customer. Don't get any more involved than you have to.

Scania can ask no more than that you remove the logo. They do not have a legal basis for anything else unless they can prove that your actions have damaged their reputation. I suspect they would only have that argument with the repair guy anyway.

I do a lot of business with Cummins here. The lesson I have learnt when dealing with anyone requesting a corporate logo, be it cummins or anyone else, is get the request in writing.

It is better if they give you a legal letter from the logo owner, or distributor that represents the logo owner. The error here is that you have effectively given the repair guy an 'authorised look' when he may not have been authorised at all. That is what Scania would be most concerned about as all these companies are very protective of their reputation.

By having the request in writing, you are within your rights to charge for the removal and correction, if any thing is disputed about the use, and it may go some way to convince the logo owner that you were acting in good faith.

I also doubt that scania will take it any further because you have shown a willingness to conform to their request, which will be in your favour. If you dispute the action you will get their back up, and then you would probably open a can of worms that you wished you hadn't

Cheers
<<

Aaron & Chris

User avatar

L-Gold Member
L-Gold Member

Posts: 318

Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 6:03 pm





Post Thu Jan 20, 2005 2:58 pm

Your right DSI

Kind of scares you when you hear a big name coming looking for you! :o

If you would have seen the design there is nothing really to pick at. We stayed away as much as possible from Scania but unfortunatly the repair guy wanted to keep the theme. We warned him but stupid us with nothing in writing. We had only just registered our company that week and still had odds and ends to tie up!!

Wont make this mistake again!! :wink:

Dont suppose anyone else had the same experience??

Cheers
<<

Ian Higgins

User avatar

5 Star Contributor

Posts: 699

Joined: Wed May 26, 2004 8:15 am





Post Thu Jan 20, 2005 2:59 pm

copyrite

What terms and conditions???
Cheers
Ian
<<

Shane Drew

User avatar

5 Star Contributor

Posts: 11424

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 12:22 pm





Post Thu Jan 20, 2005 3:16 pm

arch-digital wrote:
Dont suppose anyone else had the same experience??



We have a pretty famous Holden (General Motors) race car driver here called Peter Brock.

He is heavily tied up with the Holden Special Vehicle (HSV), and they have a pretty distinctive logo.

As you can imagine, every boy racer with a V8, wants to be associated with the man, as he is an icon in the sport here. It was great business for sign shops to 'fill the need' and produce the HSV logo until just about every sign shop I know, got a very stern legal letter, stating in no uncertain terms, that to continue the practise of producing unauthorised logos, would mean certain bankrutcy.

I got the message pretty quickly, but there are still some in the industry that are calling their bluff.

Cheers
<<

Shane Drew

User avatar

5 Star Contributor

Posts: 11424

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 12:22 pm





Post Thu Jan 20, 2005 3:17 pm

Re: copyrite

Higgi29 wrote:What terms and conditions???
Cheers
Ian


PM rob and he'll point you to the link I'm sure

Cheers
<<

Rodney Gold

User avatar

5 Star Contributor

Posts: 1324

Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2003 8:21 am





Post Thu Jan 20, 2005 5:26 pm

We never query the legalities of using a logo if the customer requests it and gives it to us
It's kinda like a telephone co , they provide the service but arent responsible for what folk say over the lines or any damages caused by the conversation. It's impossible for you to police copyright or even attempt to find out whether the customer is allowed to use it. At the end of it all , you arent the one messing with the complaining co's image , its the guy that gets the benefit of using it. However in this case , you took it on yourself to use a partial logo so IMHO should take the rap. In any event , you have done your utmost to set things right by removing it , and as Dewi says , it's highly unlikely Scania will pursue it at all , it would be pretty silly of them to tie up resources and indeed to even prove or quantify damages. If I were in their position , your actions in removing the offending logo speedily would make me respect you more. Your customer will be as impressed as you have reacted instantaneously at no cost to him etc etc.
Just as a matter of interest , DSI , I drive a Chev El camino pickup which is actually a 1974 Holden Hq ute , with a 308 motor, Yella Terra heads and a few other mods. I love it when those yuppies in their "Eurotrash" or "Rice Burning" hot hatches or Beemers pull up next to me at the traffic lights , raybans glinting , the hot blonde tanned chick in the passenger seat and they get totally humiliated on the pull away. I can just see em , male egos deflated explaining to the bird that they woulda beat me but they missed a gear (Yeh Mine is DEFINATELY bigger than yours:) Ah V8s , I love em. Just waiting for my old Vette to come back from the paint shop , nothing as beautiful and curvaceous as a stingray- sigh!!!!
<<

Bill.

5 Star Contributor

Posts: 3360

Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2003 10:29 am





Post Thu Jan 20, 2005 7:10 pm

A Corvette StingRay! :o Now I'm jealous :roll: :-? :cry: :cry:


Chris - Aaron, as Rodney has said, your swift action and the fact you haven't charged the customer can only benefit you. Scania will be happy that its been dealt with in a speedy manner and they don't have to wake up the solicitor and your customer should be over the moon that he's back in business with little more than a wagging finger from Scania.

I did a toy shop sign, both front and back, a while back. The copyright side was a minefield as for every image on the sign it had to be spot on, in colour, context and in the case of a huge Barbie image, I had to ensure it was laid out in a particular way. The fact that the toy shop is visited regularly by the manufacturers of the toys, it had to be right. Although I appreciate its tempting to bypass certain steps when doing a graphic for a van or sign, its always worth considering the implications should you get pulled up on it at a later date.

Again as Rodney has said, when a customer supplies a graphic, legally its thier responsibility, but when you originate and you use a trademarked logo, even if you alter it 60% or more, if its recognisable even in the slightest you're going to get a minimum of a ear bashing. There was a case in America were a small to medium sized firm used a similar format in their logo and advertising to a very large software company. They recieved the standard cease and desist, ignored it and within a matter of a few months they were out of business due to spiralling legal expenses. Not good :-?

Glad you've sorted it all out now though, I can only imagine what you must have felt like when you were told about it. A real trouser changing moment to say the least :lol1:

Cheers, Dewi
<<

Aaron & Chris

User avatar

L-Gold Member
L-Gold Member

Posts: 318

Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 6:03 pm





Post Thu Jan 20, 2005 8:50 pm

Well definatley an experience we dont want to have again!!

Cheers :D
<<

Dayi

User avatar

1 Star Contributor

Posts: 14

Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 12:38 am





Post Thu Jan 20, 2005 10:29 pm

Hi all

We have also been at the wrong end of the copyright laws recently,

we made some snap-on logo's for a guy think we made roughly 10 or so for him, un known to us he was then selling them on ebay the first we knew about it was when a letter dropped through the door from snap-on uk advising that they were going to take us to court, unless we advised them where we got the logo from, how we were going to compensate snap-on and we had to surrender any more copy's we had, needless to say we did as we were told and haven't heard anything else from them.
<<

Shane Drew

User avatar

5 Star Contributor

Posts: 11424

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 12:22 pm





Post Thu Jan 20, 2005 10:46 pm

Rodney, a '74 HQ ute! You're kidding.

The old 308 HQ is still being raced here by on our circuits. Until a year or two back they were a support race at the INDY.

A vette owner too.

Price of fuel must be cheaper there than here :cry:

You meet anyone with a v8 now days around these parts and you immediately assume them to be wealthy :roll:

Shane
<<

Simon Clayton

5 Star Contributor

Posts: 1057

Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2002 10:56 am





Post Fri Jan 28, 2005 1:14 pm

A company i used to work for did all the Kodak shops etc internall and external signs .
They have or had back then, a large legal department, and even though we had there corporate logo manual (about 2" thick) giving you all the layout info and calculations from a 50m long sign to a printed biro, they still required site photos and sign drawing to check the legality of it all.
I suppose that way they couldn't be done, or us.. Better safe than sorry!!
Simon
<<

Shane Drew

User avatar

5 Star Contributor

Posts: 11424

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 12:22 pm





Post Fri Jan 28, 2005 2:01 pm

Simon C wrote:A company i used to work for did all the Kodak shops etc internall and external signs .
They have or had back then, a large legal department, and even though we had there corporate logo manual (about 2" thick) giving you all the layout info and calculations from a 50m long sign to a printed biro, they still required site photos and sign drawing to check the legality of it all.
I suppose that way they couldn't be done, or us.. Better safe than sorry!!
Simon


Simon, I know what you say is true. We did some Kodak work here about 6 or 7 years ago for one of the theme parks. They actually insisted on a paid Kodak employee being onsite whilst we did the job. We had to explain everything as we did it.

It was way too much trouble given that we had to work thru the night whilst the park was closed. Made a simple job an absolute nightmare.

End of the day, we had to make some changes 'on the fly' and the Kodak woman had no idea what to do, so we did it anyway. When we finished, told the theme park not to call us again.

Cheers
<<

sprint

User avatar

1 Star Contributor

Posts: 39

Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 12:15 am





Post Mon Feb 07, 2005 12:39 pm

Rodney Gold wrote:ut they missed a gear (Yeh Mine is DEFINATELY bigger than yours:) Ah V8s , I love em. Just waiting for my old Vette to come back from the paint shop , nothing as beautiful and curvaceous as a stingray- sigh!!!!


Hi everyone......... had to reply to this, couldnt agree more, just got myself a 76 vette, 350cubic inches of pleasure (and no im not rich!) and ueven with the price of fuel in the UK!

Return to Say Hello & Off Topic Chat



Who is online

Registered users:
Gil Johnson, Warren Fee

 

About
Contact
Board Rules
Membership
Terms & Conditions

 

Signapp - iPhone & iPad
Signapp - Android
Vehicle Wrap Training
Vinyl Application Training
Vehicle Wrap Accreditation
UK Sign Group
Site Membership
Advertising
Videos
British Signs & Graphics Assoc.

 

 Facebook
 Twitter
 Youtube
 Linkedin

 

Who is Online

In total there are 79 users online ::
4 registered, 0 hidden and 75 guests
[based on past 5 minutes]

Most users ever online was
370 on Tue Aug 28, 2018 5:02 pm

Registered users:
Gil Johnson, Warren Fee

Copyright © 2000 - 2019 Robert Lambie