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Vinyl not sticking to painted wall surface

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Post Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:00 am

Vinyl not sticking to painted wall surface

Yesterday I fitted some printed vinyl signs in a gym hall. During installation I sensed the vinyls weren't really gripping to the paint surface as they should, and when I had finished I went around them all again to discover they seemed to be coming away from the walls. I mentioned my concerns to the customer and we decided to leave the prints in place to see what would happen. Sure enough, I got an email this morning to say the prints had fallen off the wall

The walls had a slightly textured surface but were not freshly painted so I can rule out outgassing as a cause. I believe there must be something in the paint causing this to happen?
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Post Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:08 am

Re: Vinyl not sticking to painted wall surface

I have seen threads on here before about some new paints having some chemicals or finish to them that won’t allow vinyl to stick. I think it is newer paints that are supposed to be a wipe clean surface.
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Post Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:50 am

Re: Vinyl not sticking to painted wall surface

As Iain says above, something to do with A, what they've taken out of paint, and B, what they put in to make it 'washable'. there was a 3M (I think) demo on here somewhere which while I thought was a bit OTT, but basically using a water / Iso mix you wipe the wall down etc.

I've had this a number of times when applying cut vinyl letters to interior walls, very hard to get the app paper off and leave the letters in situ.. ultimately lots of heat and rubbing with a felt squeegee to ensure they stay, just be careful not to make the wall with the squeegee - almost inevitable!
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Post Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:30 pm

Re: Vinyl not sticking to painted wall surface

Same situation with a customer. We have tried everything. Several brands, hi tac.. everything. Given up and mounting foamex to the wall next week.
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Post Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:36 pm

Re: Vinyl not sticking to painted wall surface

The only vinyl we will use to 'wall wraps' if they're printed is Arlon DPF8000.

We've wrapped flakey Lime Washed stone block walls at a National Trust property with the stuff... it's not been picked off, or fallen off. The adhesive it really thick on it :thumbsup:

When they finally remove the graphics, I am sure it will pull the paint away with it :lol:
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Post Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:54 pm

Re: Vinyl not sticking to painted wall surface

I had this on few occasions when fully covering wall. Surface was very silky/ matt-ish, almost greasy. We repainted wall with gloss paint. It worked.
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Post Tue Mar 13, 2018 1:42 pm

Re: Vinyl not sticking to painted wall surface

Yep it's wipe clean paint. You find this used a lot in school's and childrens café type places so they can wipe down the walls easily. It's usually slightly shiny finish.

Just to test the theory we tried Arlon 8000 on this paint - the most aggressive adhesive we could get, and it still peeled off. You have to get the walls re-painted or scrap the idea altogether!
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Post Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:42 pm

Re: Vinyl not sticking to painted wall surface

Hugh Potter wrote: there was a 3M (I think) demo on here somewhere which while I thought was a bit OTT, but basically using a water / Iso mix you wipe the wall down etc.


Hung a show in our gallery a couple of weeks ago, with large sections of Canon repositional matt vinyl, matt eco friendly paint on the walls. Sections of the wall that had been recently painted were mopped down three times with IPA / Water mix. Some of the vinyls were larger than anticipated, and went onto walls which had not been painted for months, and only got a quick, single wipe down with the IPA/Water mix. A week later, the vinyl is lifting, but only on the insufficiently treated areas.

So, I can say with confidence that the 3M method is not OTT, and is worth the extra prep time.
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Post Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:49 pm

Re: Vinyl not sticking to painted wall surface

I think some of the textile type self adhesive materials are good for walls. Maybe they let the paint breathe a bit?
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Post Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:59 pm

Re: Vinyl not sticking to painted wall surface

I've some samples of Canvastex, and a similar generic on the wall in my print room (paint is Munsell N7 - high quality eco matt), and they're kind of losing their grip. They went up a year after the wall was painted, but not 3M'd, so, I'd still go for the surface prep, for anything I wasn't wanting to revisit...

All our prints are aqueous, rather than solvent, but I don't suspect this will have a huge impact on the adhesive. But they are all designed to come off cleanly, just not of their own accord.
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Post Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:37 pm

Re: Vinyl not sticking to painted wall surface

Sounds like printing it on wallpaper and pasting it on could be the answer? altho im guessing you have already lost your a**e on the job so its lose lose now. :sad:

I had a sample wallpaper a few weeks, with thick adhesive backing from mactac this also looks good.
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Post Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:20 pm

Re: Vinyl not sticking to painted wall surface

Are the prints all ruined Phill? Might be worth giving the walls a couple of coats of diluted pva & re-use if they’re not trashed. I was on a job up in Leeds a couple of years ago & two lads were installing self adhesive vinyl with pva solution, wasn’t the prettiest install I’ve ever seen but seemed to give them plenty of working time
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Post Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:00 pm

Re: Vinyl not sticking to painted wall surface

The paints that are the issue are any with low VOC's (volatile organic compounds) & it can also be an issue with the pasted wallcoverings apparently. It was suggested to me by Metamark if you are unsure if the paint on the wall to be covered is low VOC or not, it is safest to prime it with either a pva primer or Zinsser bullseye 123 (water based)
It obviously does add a little time & cost to the job, but peace of mind that you won't be called back to pick up the vinyl/wallcoverings from the floor & replace them at potentially big loss!!
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Post Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:04 am

Re: Vinyl not sticking to painted wall surface

I have always had an issue with vinyl not adhering properly to water based acrylic paints. I’m not sure if it is the plasticisers in the paint, but I rarely have problems with oil based gloss enamels.
Having said that, I recently used (for the first time) British Paints Rapid Dry enamel, supposedly brush/roll on and had some adherence problems.
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Post Wed Mar 21, 2018 2:53 pm

Re: Vinyl not sticking to painted wall surface

Yep had the same problem
Fitted some wall graphics in sheffield for another sign company everything seemed ok but by the time I got home
half of it just fell off. Did cause a bit of a stink eveything was my fault of course :shake:

If its a complete wall coverage we always pva the wall first its not worth the risk as we don't digitally print ourselves so the
cost of getting it all done again is not worth the risk.
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Post Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:00 pm

Re: Vinyl not sticking to painted wall surface

Thankfully we haven’t encountered this paint yet, something to bear in mind when asked to do full wall coverage though. The installation I saw a while back was done with neat pva being brushed on & vinyl was fitted before it was even tacky. Didn’t see it after drying but job looked dreadful. Be interested to see what the finished install looked like when dried out
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Post Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:16 pm

Re: Vinyl not sticking to painted wall surface

Kevin Mahoney wrote:Thankfully we haven’t encountered this paint yet, something to bear in mind when asked to do full wall coverage though. The installation I saw a while back was done with neat pva being brushed on & vinyl was fitted before it was even tacky. Didn’t see it after drying but job looked dreadful. Be interested to see what the finished install looked like when dried out


We roller it on we never brush it on large walls and wait for it to dry or go back the next day not had a problem yet.

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