my invisible text
Categories
  • TIMELINE

Problems with laminating print

<<

Martyn Heath

User avatar

Silver Member
Silver Member

Posts: 436

Joined: Thu May 07, 2015 7:08 pm

Country: United Kingdom (uk)




Post Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:22 am

Problems with laminating print

Hi all,

Im having problems with the laminate creasing and bunching up on the lower roller. Starts off fine however within 1m it ripples and can notice slack on one side.
Im guessing its user error. Is this a classic sign that im doing something wrong?
Tension is as tight as can be, im thinking could it be the vinyl pulling the lam to one side?

Any knowledge would be great, been dealing with this problem for some time now.
Attachments
WP_20180119_10_52_02_Pro.jpg
Last edited by Martyn Heath on Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
<<

David Hammond

User avatar

Premium Member
Premium Member

Posts: 3418

Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:17 am

Country: United Kingdom (uk)




Post Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:12 am

Re: Problems with laminating print

Looks like a tension issue. Try and add some more, or I sometimes hold the take up for the backing, to the backing pulls away closer to the roller.

Or the laminate is running off the vinyl, sticking to the roller and pulling it over more.
<<

Luke Culpin

User avatar

2 Star Contributor

Posts: 197

Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:05 pm





Post Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:59 pm

Re: Problems with laminating print

Our old laminator used to give us this issue constantly. We had it re-aligned/balanced and it worked perfectly for ages then! Then same happened again, so we got rid! The way to check if your out of balance is to put 3 pieces of paper between the rollers, one in the middle and one either end. Gently lower the roller to just touch and see if all pieces are trapped!
<<

Martyn Heath

User avatar

Silver Member
Silver Member

Posts: 436

Joined: Thu May 07, 2015 7:08 pm

Country: United Kingdom (uk)




Post Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:25 pm

Re: Problems with laminating print

Cheers guys i will give that ago. I did buy it used so wouldnt surprise me if its not as it should be.

Out of interest how much is a service/alignment for a laminator and who the hell would i contact. A dealer??
<<

Luke Culpin

User avatar

2 Star Contributor

Posts: 197

Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:05 pm





Post Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:53 pm

Re: Problems with laminating print

Depending on how far they have to travel and time required on the job I guess! The company we used were from near Manchester, which is 3 hours away from us! Sure it was £250 or somewhere near that! We used laaco laminates, fantastic service, very handy guy to be in touch with!
<<

Peter Munday

User avatar

5 Star Contributor

Posts: 738

Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2004 8:25 pm





Post Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:19 pm

Re: Problems with laminating print

I've just done mine as it was pulling the vinyl through faster on the left side, it was a ten minute job. Just looked it up on youtube easy fix.

Peter
<<

Martin Pearson

User avatar

Premium Member
Premium Member

Posts: 8341

Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2002 1:00 am





Post Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:52 am

Re: Problems with laminating print

Could be a tension issue as David has already said BUT this can happen if you over tension as well as under tension the rollers, if you have it as tight as you can possibly get it then try backing it off instead of trying to apply more tension :lol: :lol:
<<

Paul Hodges

3 Star Contributor

Posts: 242

Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2005 9:02 pm





Post Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:34 pm

Re: Problems with laminating print

Is that an Excelam laminator? It's the same as ours. Whenever I've seen that problem it's usually because the brakes need replacing which is why you're not getting the tension.

when the laminator is in proper running order it should never do that, it's not really an operator error type of thing
<<

David Hammond

User avatar

Premium Member
Premium Member

Posts: 3418

Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:17 am

Country: United Kingdom (uk)




Post Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:18 pm

Re: Problems with laminating print

We've had out laminator pulling to one side, and it creasing the last few meters of vinyl. Just put it down to user error.

Whilst we had 5mins, I got some 300gsm card, and put 3 through the laminator, each end and centre, and lowered the roller until it touched. A gentle pull on each card, and one end was looser than the other.

Followed a video on youtube for aligning the rollers, now it holds all 3 sheets nicely :thumbsup:

I'm curious to see what happens when we next laminate a job :lol:
<<

Emyr Evans

Premium Member
Premium Member

Posts: 52

Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2014 2:06 pm





Post Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:38 pm

Re: Problems with laminating print

Just checked our laminator using 3 pieces of 2.5mm plastic. The middle touched at 2.5mm, the right hand side touched at 2.2mm with the left at 2.0mm. It's a Neolt Neolam 1650 C, does anyone know how to adjust one of these?

Thanks
<<

Martyn Heath

User avatar

Silver Member
Silver Member

Posts: 436

Joined: Thu May 07, 2015 7:08 pm

Country: United Kingdom (uk)




Post Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:53 pm

Re: Problems with laminating print

Paul Hodges wrote:Is that an Excelam laminator? It's the same as ours. Whenever I've seen that problem it's usually because the brakes need replacing which is why you're not getting the tension.

when the laminator is in proper running order it should never do that, it's not really an operator error type of thing


Hi paul, yes it is an excelam gmp1400. If your right are the brakes something worth getting changed?.

Thanks for the other suggestions, ive not really tried loosening off the tension, i assumed that as the laminate is bunching up then tightening was the obvious way to go. Like i say im at max.
<<

Martyn Heath

User avatar

Silver Member
Silver Member

Posts: 436

Joined: Thu May 07, 2015 7:08 pm

Country: United Kingdom (uk)




Post Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:55 pm

Re: Problems with laminating print

David can you post the link here or was it specific to your laminator?
<<

David Hammond

User avatar

Premium Member
Premium Member

Posts: 3418

Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:17 am

Country: United Kingdom (uk)




Post Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:34 pm

Re: Problems with laminating print

Not specific to our laminator, as ours is an Easymount, but very similar set up behind the cover.

Watch on youtube.com
<<

Martyn Heath

User avatar

Silver Member
Silver Member

Posts: 436

Joined: Thu May 07, 2015 7:08 pm

Country: United Kingdom (uk)




Post Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:47 am

Re: Problems with laminating print

Nice one david, i will give it a tinker and see what happens
<<

Gary Barker

User avatar

2 Star Contributor

Posts: 168

Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:23 pm

Country: United Kingdom (uk)




Post Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:07 am

Re: Problems with laminating print

we had this problem, you have to balance tension with pressure, also make sure your loading correctly, I think you have the laminate not running parallel to the vinyl, buy some cheap lam and some cheap vinyl and practice, the loading is the most important part getting that right and your good to go.
<<

Martyn Heath

User avatar

Silver Member
Silver Member

Posts: 436

Joined: Thu May 07, 2015 7:08 pm

Country: United Kingdom (uk)




Post Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:25 am

Re: Problems with laminating print

Gary Barker wrote:we had this problem, you have to balance tension with pressure, also make sure your loading correctly, I think you have the laminate not running parallel to the vinyl, buy some cheap lam and some cheap vinyl and practice, the loading is the most important part getting that right and your good to go.



Yes i think loading could also be part of it. Feeding the vinyl in straight, im guessing if its slightly out it will pull the lam to one side?.

Ok so ive tried the same tests, with paper between the roller and pulling. Nothing moved. The roller pressure has only one setting for vinyl and cant be manually adjusted, you go up a notch which is then for substrate.
One thing i did noticle is when the rollers are raised slightly there is 0.5mm-1mm light gap on either end 200mm into the roll but not in the middle. Is this normal/acceptable or could this be the problem?

Starting to think the laminator is something i should have got new, not used :rollseyes:
<<

David Hammond

User avatar

Premium Member
Premium Member

Posts: 3418

Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:17 am

Country: United Kingdom (uk)




Post Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:28 am

Re: Problems with laminating print

We went on the training course at Signmaster, was quite interesting watching everyone's different methods of loading the machine :lol:

We put about 250mm of vinyl through the laminator, pull the laminate through and align it to the vinyl, lower the roller whilst keeping some tension on the laminate to keep it against the roller, then snitty the backing onto the take up.

If the rollers touch in the middle, could be the rollers aren't true, i.e. thicker in the middle. Although I'm only guessing.
<<

Gary Barker

User avatar

2 Star Contributor

Posts: 168

Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:23 pm

Country: United Kingdom (uk)




Post Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:30 am

Re: Problems with laminating print

One thing i did noticle is when the rollers are raised slightly there is 0.5mm-1mm light gap on either end 200mm into the roll but not in the middle. Is this normal/acceptable or could this be the problem?

This is correct
<<

Gary Barker

User avatar

2 Star Contributor

Posts: 168

Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:23 pm

Country: United Kingdom (uk)




Post Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:32 am

Re: Problems with laminating print

Martyn Heath wrote:
Gary Barker wrote:we had this problem, you have to balance tension with pressure, also make sure your loading correctly, I think you have the laminate not running parallel to the vinyl, buy some cheap lam and some cheap vinyl and practice, the loading is the most important part getting that right and your good to go.



Yes i think loading could also be part of it. Feeding the vinyl in straight, im guessing if its slightly out it will pull the lam to one side?.

are you loading the laminate with a foamex board?
<<

Martyn Heath

User avatar

Silver Member
Silver Member

Posts: 436

Joined: Thu May 07, 2015 7:08 pm

Country: United Kingdom (uk)




Post Fri Jan 26, 2018 3:55 pm

Re: Problems with laminating print

Gary Barker wrote:
Martyn Heath wrote:
Gary Barker wrote:we had this problem, you have to balance tension with pressure, also make sure your loading correctly, I think you have the laminate not running parallel to the vinyl, buy some cheap lam and some cheap vinyl and practice, the loading is the most important part getting that right and your good to go.



Yes i think loading could also be part of it. Feeding the vinyl in straight, im guessing if its slightly out it will pull the lam to one side?.

are you loading the laminate with a foamex board?



My loading goes like this: With the rollers up i have backing paper between rolls, sticking the backing sheet to the take up and peel the lam off and pull through the rollers. I do this standing behind the laminator with hands at each end. (i will try the board method). i touch it onto the desk to keep it tight and lower the rollers. I then start feeding and push my vinyl into the rollers and off we go.

I will try loading with a board and perhaps davids way of pushing the vinyl under the rollers before they are lowered. Maybe something will come of this.
<<

Chris Tennant

1 Star Contributor

Posts: 74

Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 10:28 pm

Country: United Kingdom (uk)




Post Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:36 pm

Re: Problems with laminating print

Weve had issues laminating prints and backing up vinyl on the rolls roller, apparently its because of paper backing and not silica
<<

Paul Hodges

3 Star Contributor

Posts: 242

Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2005 9:02 pm





Post Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:26 pm

Re: Problems with laminating print

Martyn Heath wrote:
Paul Hodges wrote:Is that an Excelam laminator? It's the same as ours. Whenever I've seen that problem it's usually because the brakes need replacing which is why you're not getting the tension.

when the laminator is in proper running order it should never do that, it's not really an operator error type of thing


Hi paul, yes it is an excelam gmp1400. If your right are the brakes something worth getting changed?.

Thanks for the other suggestions, ive not really tried loosening off the tension, i assumed that as the laminate is bunching up then tightening was the obvious way to go. Like i say im at max.


Hi Martin,

I've seen people on here mention they can see light between the rollers, that isn't a fault, that is how it should be. The rollers are designed to push the laminate outwards. The only problem you will have there is if the slight gap is uneven at each end, in which case take the end housings off and adjust the big springs to make even.

You should run the laminator with the least tension possible, so if you're at max and it's creasing, it's either the rollers are worn, they just need adjusting to even gaps, or the brakes are gone. Typically you might change the brakes once a year or so, if you've had the laminator longer than a year or two and not changed the brakes, that's probably your issue. The brakes are just small discs to insert on the ends inside the housings, they are cheap to buy. It's nothing to do with operator error, if the brakes are good and the rollers are good, and tension is reasonable, it runs without a problem. Give Rick at GMP a call and he'll help you out with that.
<<

Martyn Heath

User avatar

Silver Member
Silver Member

Posts: 436

Joined: Thu May 07, 2015 7:08 pm

Country: United Kingdom (uk)




Post Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:05 pm

Re: Problems with laminating print

Paul Hodges wrote:
Martyn Heath wrote:
Paul Hodges wrote:Is that an Excelam laminator? It's the same as ours. Whenever I've seen that problem it's usually because the brakes need replacing which is why you're not getting the tension.

when the laminator is in proper running order it should never do that, it's not really an operator error type of thing


Hi paul, yes it is an excelam gmp1400. If your right are the brakes something worth getting changed?.

Thanks for the other suggestions, ive not really tried loosening off the tension, i assumed that as the laminate is bunching up then tightening was the obvious way to go. Like i say im at max.


Hi Martin,

I've seen people on here mention they can see light between the rollers, that isn't a fault, that is how it should be. The rollers are designed to push the laminate outwards. The only problem you will have there is if the slight gap is uneven at each end, in which case take the end housings off and adjust the big springs to make even.

You should run the laminator with the least tension possible, so if you're at max and it's creasing, it's either the rollers are worn, they just need adjusting to even gaps, or the brakes are gone. Typically you might change the brakes once a year or so, if you've had the laminator longer than a year or two and not changed the brakes, that's probably your issue. The brakes are just small discs to insert on the ends inside the housings, they are cheap to buy. It's nothing to do with operator error, if the brakes are good and the rollers are good, and tension is reasonable, it runs without a problem. Give Rick at GMP a call and he'll help you out with that.


Cheers paul. Great info. I will change the brakes and go from there :thumbsup:

Return to General Printing Topics



Who is online

Registered users:
No registered users

cron

 

About
Contact
Board Rules
Membership
Terms & Conditions

 

Signapp - iPhone & iPad
Signapp - Android
Vehicle Wrap Training
Vinyl Application Training
Vehicle Wrap Accreditation
UK Sign Group
Site Membership
Advertising
Videos
British Signs & Graphics Assoc.

 

 Facebook
 Twitter
 Youtube
 Linkedin

 

Who is Online

In total there are 22 users online ::
2 registered, 0 hidden and 20 guests
[based on past 5 minutes]

Most users ever online was
370 on Tue Aug 28, 2018 5:02 pm

Registered users:
No registered users

Copyright © 2000 - 2019 Robert Lambie