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UPVC Window frame wrapping advice please?

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Daniel Taylor

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Post Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:56 pm

UPVC Window frame wrapping advice please?

I'm in the middle of setting up my business which consist of wrapping PVC window frames .. so people can change the colour of their windows for a fraction of the cost of getting new ones, can anyone recommend a good wrapping film that will make the process easier and less hassle, also looking for specific colours such as slate grey .. etc .. I'm currently looking into avery Dennision facade film ... andone have any experience on this type of work? Had to be cast or wrapping film as needs to get into every nook and crannie? Thanks
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Peter Wynne

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Post Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: UPVC WINDOW FRAME WRAPPING

Hi Daniel,

I've done a few windows (odd windows for garages and stuff, but not an entire house), but am also looking to market this properly. Whereabouts are you based if you don't mind me asking? I'm North Wales.

I've just used KPMF wrapping film as it's easy to get for me, and a fraction of 3M and Avery costings. Did the job fine, no issues with the product.
I've found it's more 'laying' as opposed to wrapping as it's mainly flat panels, with just the corners to properly 'wrap'. I've used the wrapping film purely for the long life span.
It's a bit more time consuming than it seems and it's SUPER fiddly to get proper full coverage, but looks great when it's done. I've found the matt anthracite and matt black seem to look best but not really experimented with colours too much!

Only issue I've seen could be access to 1st floor domestic windows above conservatories... haven't quite figured that one out without using a cherry picker!
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Daniel Taylor

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Post Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:36 pm

Re: UPVC WINDOW FRAME WRAPPING

Hi Peter, thanks for replying. I'm based in Manchester and have just this morning picked a small sample of KMPF up ... but I think they will struggle on the colours I need. I can imagine this being a fiddly job but there's decent money to be made. I'm currently looking for a small caddy van (connect) and a decent wrapping film with correct colour pantones for windows, and I'm away ... as for conservatories I would say you'd need scaffolding ... I'm going to buy a mini scaffold as doing upper windows on a ladder would be a nightmare. Also a generator for heat guns etc.

If anyone can recommend a good wrapping film with huge list of Matt colours that would be great?

Cheers
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Peter Wynne

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Post Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:09 pm

Re: UPVC WINDOW FRAME WRAPPING

No problem. Only an hour or so from me so if you ever get a two man job just hit me up, be more than happy to help!

Yeah know what you mean regarding colours. However I personally think the few greys, anthracite and black they stock will be more than enough for most people wanting to change the look of their PVC windows. I have tried to find an Antique green colour (that almost Sage colour green found on wooden cottage windows, etc) but can't seem to find anything close. I did look at that Avery Facade film but from what I've seen it's bloomin' expensive but would probably be a good choice as it's what it's designed to do.

Generator... good idea!!
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Daniel Taylor

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Post Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:38 pm

Re: UPVC WINDOW FRAME WRAPPING

Yeah sure man ... if things do take off then course mate. I've just tried putting that KPMF air release wrap on the inside of my window ... went on really easy and over the beading well and stayed out ... I didn't even use heat so should be solid once you burnish it in. Yes there greys and anthracite and blacks look decent. As for avery facade I'll look into prices, as I ain't cutting corners ... imagine doing a full house and a month later the client says the vinyls starting to pop back out ... no thanks, that's why a cast vinyl is better as it's meant for curves etc.
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Post Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:27 pm

Re: UPVC WINDOW FRAME WRAPPING

Hi Daniel,

Just done a taster course with Avery Dennison in conjunction with William Smith on their façade film.

Have to say it was an eye opener and has a lot of potential.

Nice film to work with and does what it says on the tin.

Not sure if there are any courses up your way but the course I did was in Milton Keynes. Sure Gill at WS can point you in the right direction
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David Hammond

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Post Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:22 pm

Re: UPVC WINDOW FRAME WRAPPING

Metamark do a Facade film too. https://www.metamarktechnicalfilms.co.uk
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Daniel Taylor

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Post Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:29 pm

Re: UPVC WINDOW FRAME WRAPPING

Chris what's your thoughts on the avery Dennision pal ? I'm also looking into KPMF AIR RELEASE
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Post Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:37 pm

Re: UPVC WINDOW FRAME WRAPPING

well it wont come off that's for sure!

not air escape but from memory its 90 microns so thick. I believe its a 50 micron material with 40 micron adheshive.

It is a solid coloured vinyl with no grey backing and seems to cover well with minimum show through.

Easy enough to apply and even recommended as a wet apply for the larger areas anyway.

I liked it but not sure being high on a building in a cherry picker I would want to use a large piece of any type of vinyl!

See if you can get on the taster course as you will lean a lot. Not seen any others to comment on
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Daniel Taylor

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Post Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:58 am

Re: UPVC WINDOW FRAME WRAPPING

Chris Windebank wrote:well it wont come off that's for sure!

not air escape but from memory its 90 microns so thick. I believe its a 50 micron material with 40 micron adheshive.

It is a solid coloured vinyl with no grey backing and seems to cover well with minimum show through.

Easy enough to apply and even recommended as a wet apply for the larger areas anyway.

I liked it but not sure being high on a building in a cherry picker I would want to use a large piece of any type of vinyl!

See if you can get on the taster course as you will lean a lot. Not seen any others to comment on



Cheers pal, I'm currently talking to William smith at the moment .. facade film seems the way to go as it has a large colour list and is fire rated etc... I'd rather pay more for the real deal than have something come bite me in ass months/years down the line. I will have to see about getting a sample and some swatches sent over and go from there, thanks mate big help.
Dan
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Martin Pearson

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Post Wed Aug 02, 2017 11:37 am

Re: UPVC WINDOW FRAME WRAPPING

Slightly off topic Daniel but if you are just setting up & looking to use films such as the facade film then I think it is important to make sure you mention points like the fire rating when talking with customers, especially in light of recent events. Your quotes may be higher than other people doing the same thing but if the customer knows your using the recommended product for the job it is often enough to persuade then not to go for the cheapest quote :lol:
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Daniel Taylor

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Post Wed Aug 02, 2017 1:14 pm

Re: UPVC WINDOW FRAME WRAPPING

Thanks Martin, that's a good point, I'll defo be mentioning that. Cheers pal
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Daniel Taylor

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Post Wed Aug 02, 2017 4:01 pm

Re: UPVC WINDOW FRAME WRAPPING

Just spoke to George at WS .. and he's just said avery facade isn't air release .. but can be applied wet ... for Window frame wrapping I'd prefer dry fitting due to the immediate tac. What's your thoughts on this, would you look for a similar product with air release?
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Post Wed Aug 02, 2017 4:11 pm

Re: UPVC WINDOW FRAME WRAPPING

Spandex have a couple of you tube videos, worth a look.
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Stuart Taylor

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Post Wed Aug 02, 2017 4:25 pm

Re: UPVC WINDOW FRAME WRAPPING

Daniel Taylor wrote:Just spoke to George at WS .. and he's just said avery facade isn't air release .. but can be applied wet ... for Window frame wrapping I'd prefer dry fitting due to the immediate tac. What's your thoughts on this, would you look for a similar product with air release?


Hi Daniel

Avery Façade is designed to be fit wet

Believe me its like magic when you see it demoed - I have never seen a wet application give such a strong immediate bond. The façade film has a unique 40micron adhesive that is designed specifically for these architectural applications.

As was suggested by Chris get yourself onto one of the Façade Taster sessions, they are free to attend and will give you an insight into how well this film works. Up to you then if you want to take on a full training course at a later date

Stuart
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Daniel Taylor

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Post Wed Aug 02, 2017 4:44 pm

Re: UPVC WINDOW FRAME WRAPPING

Stuart Taylor wrote:
Daniel Taylor wrote:Just spoke to George at WS .. and he's just said avery facade isn't air release .. but can be applied wet ... for Window frame wrapping I'd prefer dry fitting due to the immediate tac. What's your thoughts on this, would you look for a similar product with air release?


Hi Daniel

Avery Façade is designed to be fit wet

Believe me its like magic when you see it demoed - I have never seen a wet application give such a strong immediate bond. The façade film has a unique 40micron adhesive that is designed specifically for these architectural applications.


As was suggested by Chris get yourself onto one of the Façade Taster sessions, they are free to attend and will give you an insight into how well this film works. Up to you then if you want to take on a full training course at a later date

Stuart


Thanks Stuart, the thing is as I will only be wrapping 1 side of each window (external) which is mainly a flat surface with another smaller surface that veers off (inner frame) so can imagine wet application wouldn't be needed. I could be wrong tho.
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Daniel Taylor

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Post Wed Aug 02, 2017 4:45 pm

Re: UPVC WINDOW FRAME WRAPPING

Steff Davison wrote:Spandex have a couple of you tube videos, worth a look.


Thanks Steph, I'll have a quick butchers. Ta
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Hugh Potter

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Post Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:58 pm

Re: UPVC WINDOW FRAME WRAPPING

how do any of these films mentions cope with the copious amounts of silicone beading etc.?
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Daniel Taylor

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Post Thu Aug 03, 2017 8:12 am

Re: UPVC WINDOW FRAME WRAPPING

Hugh Potter wrote:how do any of these films mentions cope with the copious amounts of silicone beading etc.?


You just reseal it.
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Hugh Potter

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Post Thu Aug 03, 2017 10:05 am

Re: UPVC WINDOW FRAME WRAPPING

Daniel Taylor wrote:
Hugh Potter wrote:how do any of these films mentions cope with the copious amounts of silicone beading etc.?


You just reseal it.


do you cut the silicone out first or go over it? Or, do you mean you go up to the edge and then silicone the gaps?
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Alex Crosbie

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Post Thu Aug 03, 2017 12:24 pm

Re: UPVC WINDOW FRAME WRAPPING

Just out of curiosity how do you plan on coping with the winter months, are the facade vinyls temperature sensitive and do they wet apply?!

Cheers

Alex
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Daniel Taylor

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Post Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:10 am

Re: UPVC WINDOW FRAME WRAPPING

Alex Crosbie wrote:Just out of curiosity how do you plan on coping with the winter months, are the facade vinyls temperature sensitive and do they wet apply?!

Cheers

Alex


Hi Alex, the facade can be applied wet or dry so should be fine in the winter months, as long as your not allergic to rain haha.
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Daniel Taylor

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Post Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:11 am

Re: UPVC WINDOW FRAME WRAPPING

Hugh Potter wrote:
Daniel Taylor wrote:
Hugh Potter wrote:how do any of these films mentions cope with the copious amounts of silicone beading etc.?


You just reseal it.


do you cut the silicone out first or go over it? Or, do you mean you go up to the edge and then silicone the gaps?


To be honest I'm not completely sure, either way would work I suppose ... what would you recommend? Thanks
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Alex Crosbie

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Post Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:52 am

Re: UPVC WINDOW FRAME WRAPPING

I've checked the technical document for Avery facade film and minimum application temperature is 0 degrees centigrade though how you would wet apply at any less than 4 degrees centigrade without running the risk of freezing would be an interesting one to experience!
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Daniel Taylor

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Post Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:36 pm

Re: UPVC WINDOW FRAME WRAPPING

Alex Crosbie wrote:I've checked the technical document for Avery facade film and minimum application temperature is 0 degrees centigrade though how you would wet apply at any less than 4 degrees centigrade without running the risk of freezing would be an interesting one to experience!


You could avoid this problem by using Luke warm water in a spray bottle.
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Daniel Taylor

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Post Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:38 pm

Re: UPVC WINDOW FRAME WRAPPING

I've finally come up with my company name

SPECTRUM UPVC WRAPS

I think that sounds good and get the message across ... thoughts?
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Daniel Taylor

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Post Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:32 am

Re: UPVC WINDOW FRAME WRAPPING

What kind of overlap would you recommend for the corner of each window ... like 10mm overlap to conpansate for weather contractions ? Thanks
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Andy Picken

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Post Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:57 pm

Re: UPVC WINDOW FRAME WRAPPING

Daniel Taylor wrote:What kind of overlap would you recommend for the corner of each window ... like 10mm overlap to conpansate for weather contractions ? Thanks


Hey Daniel
I've just picked up on this thread . This is exactly what I have in Mind and had exactly the same concerns as you... I'm Southampton based. I'm just about to colour change all the PVC windows on my house to black or Black /Grey,. I wondered where you got to with your materials enquiries?
I looked into the Avery Facade... This looks to be the one for durability but don't think it will form round curved profiles that well. Think you would have to apply in strips, over lap and cut miters etc but still should do the job. #

However think you can only buy in 50 miter rolls.... Spandex were over a Grand for the roll,:( but found it cheaper £800 ish. Not soo bad if you go halves on it I guess

I have just made an inquiry about Metamark Facade film.. getting a call back on it tomorrow morning.. Think you can buy this per mitre.

Be really interested to see where you were with this now?

Cheers

Andy
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Phill Fenton

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Post Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:17 pm

Re: UPVC WINDOW FRAME WRAPPING

My brother in law did this to his kitchen showroom windows and entrance door. (I thought he was crazy mind - spending all that time wrapping every nook and cranny). It worked fine using ordinary 5-7 year exterior quality vinyls (Oracal 551 series). There probably is a big market for this type of service providing you can get the work done within a reasonable timescale to make the process viable as a business.
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Andy Picken

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Post Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:28 pm

Re: UPVC WINDOW FRAME WRAPPING

Thanks Phil. Yes know it will be time consuming,,. Good results though and a fraction of the cost of refitting windows.. Is that Oracle material Poly or Cast?

cheers

Andy
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Phill Fenton

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Post Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:43 pm

Re: UPVC WINDOW FRAME WRAPPING

551 series is a polymeric vinyl - 751 series oracal is cast
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Andy Picken

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Post Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:00 pm

Re: UPVC WINDOW FRAME WRAPPING

Thanks Phil
Did you brother in law wrap the door in this material then? I would have thought he would have struggled with a door ref profiles unless it was cast material and could be heated and formed?
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Phill Fenton

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Post Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:07 pm

Re: UPVC WINDOW FRAME WRAPPING

As there aren't any compound curves he just applied everything in strips and cut mitre's in the corners
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Andy Picken

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Post Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:14 pm

Re: UPVC WINDOW FRAME WRAPPING

Ahh Ok Gotcha.! Cheers Phil
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Phil P Davies

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Post Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:57 pm

Re: UPVC WINDOW FRAME WRAPPING

Phill Fenton wrote:My brother in law did this to his kitchen showroom windows and entrance door. (I thought he was crazy mind - spending all that time wrapping every nook and cranny). It worked fine using ordinary 5-7 year exterior quality vinyls (Oracal 551 series). There probably is a big market for this type of service providing you can get the work done within a reasonable timescale to make the process viable as a business.


Good for shops who cannot alter the exterior for instance :)
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Gill Harrison

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Post Thu Nov 23, 2017 7:31 pm

Re: UPVC WINDOW FRAME WRAPPING

Chris Windebank wrote:Hi Daniel,

Just done a taster course with Avery Dennison in conjunction with William Smith on their façade film.

Have to say it was an eye opener and has a lot of potential.

Nice film to work with and does what it says on the tin.

Not sure if there are any courses up your way but the course I did was in Milton Keynes. Sure Gill at WS can point you in the right direction
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Gill Harrison

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Post Thu Nov 23, 2017 7:42 pm

Re: UPVC WINDOW FRAME WRAPPING

Yes it’s certainly a great new direction for vinyl’s....well not so new as we’ve been applying standard signage vinyls to frame etc for some time but with the Avery Facade the product can be installed wet and in low temperatures. Sold very much as “paint on a roll” with up to 10 year durability.
We stock all 22 colours so part rolls are available for next day and it’s also colour matchable MOQ 2 rolls.
A single layer cast so extremely soft but the key is to install with zero tension so we need to remove our wrap heads were we want to stretch vinyl. When I’m training sign makers they pick it up so quickly.
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Martyn Heath

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Post Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:07 am

Re: UPVC WINDOW FRAME WRAPPING

With regards to installing in winter, i use rapid tac 2, it makes a huge difference. Allows wet application and helps to set the glue off. Im based in finland with winter temperatures between 0 to -25. Ive had success with it upto -10c. Anything colder than this and my hands dont work anyway.
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Andy Picken

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Post Fri Nov 24, 2017 11:03 am

Re: UPVC WINDOW FRAME WRAPPING

Gill Harrison wrote:Yes it’s certainly a great new direction for vinyl’s....well not so new as we’ve been applying standard signage vinyls to frame etc for some time but with the Avery Facade the product can be installed wet and in low temperatures. Sold very much as “paint on a roll” with up to 10 year durability.
We stock all 22 colours so part rolls are available for next day and it’s also colour matchable MOQ 2 rolls.
A single layer cast so extremely soft but the key is to install with zero tension so we need to remove our wrap heads were we want to stretch vinyl. When I’m training sign makers they pick it up so quickly.



Hi Gill.. I looked into getting the Avery Facade but it was only confirmed that i could buy 50m rolls and at the moment that was a bit heavy for me to carry stock of. I 've got for the Metamark product - Meta clad... This again has to be bought in rolls but I've managed to get a part roll of 10 meters... I'm trying this weekend on my Window frames. This can be heated and formed round corners of seals.

How does the Avery facade fair with curved profiles of some double glazing frames,... Is it just suggested to cut in strips and fold the joints?
Regards

Andy
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Gill Harrison

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Post Fri Nov 24, 2017 9:01 pm

Re: UPVC WINDOW FRAME WRAPPING

Hi Andy

We stock the Avery Facade and supply part rolls so you can take as little as 1 metre for next day delivery. We also offer a slitting service so you could have 2 or 3 metres then we could slit that into multiple narrow rolls (very handy for window frames).
The Avery is a single layer cast so very soft and comfortable but the main aim is to install it without stretch. It DOES NOT have any bubble free adhesive but this is a huge positive as it allows you to install it wet or in damp cold conditions.
We do taster sessions for customers to come and learn more about the product and have a play with it either at the Avery training centre in Milton Keynes or up north at our Head office in Barnard Castle.
This is a screen shot from some video I have of it installed onto curved window frame profile but it’s installed without heat. The fact that it is so thin and soft certainly helps
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