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Signage going onto metal cladding on industrial unit

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Post Thu Sep 22, 2016 1:21 pm

Signage going onto metal cladding on industrial unit

Hey guys

I've got my first metal cladding signage job, i've read a few old posts but things update and I just wondered how to do it and what to use?

I've attached the image of the cladding so you know what i'm facing.

Basically, I am looking to fit a 5 metre dibond sign tray with another dibond oval tray above that with acrylic letters attached to that.

I've gone down the tray route as I could see it being a right pain to attach letters individually to the cladding.

OK, so I need to attach the diabond tray to the cladding, normally I use angled brackets to do this on a normal wall, would it be the same on this type of surface?

I've also been reading about using tech screws with rubber washers to screw the brackets to the cladding (see link), are these still the screws to use?
http://www.screwfix.com/p/roofing-to-st ... -100/33545

Finally, I've never done an oval tray, what's the best way to attach this?

Thanks
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Post Thu Sep 22, 2016 1:45 pm

Re: Signage going onto metal cladding on industrial unit

Absolutely the right way to do a standard tray on cladding.

No need for massively long screws - 30-40mm will be fine.

For the oval I recommend making up a FULL internal oval in 10mm PVC and fitting small 90 degree brackets at strategic points depending on the size...and slip your tray all the way back over it.

Mount the oval then it's all good :)

ps. draw a mid line to get your horizontal / vertical right!

Dave
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Post Thu Sep 22, 2016 1:59 pm

Re: Signage going onto metal cladding on industrial unit

Thanks David.

Sounds like a good idea for the oval tray.
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Post Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:23 pm

Re: Signage going onto metal cladding on industrial unit

Hey guys

Fitting this sign tomorrow and just wanted to make sure I had everything in place before getting there.

It's a 1350 x 5000 metre sign split into 2x 2500mm ACM panels and another 1000 x 2.7m oval ACM panel

The tech screws link appears to have stopped working, are these the screws again as they look like them?

http://www.screwfix.com/p/rawlplug-self ... pack/79345

Basically I'm planning to put a screw every 3 ridges as suggest in another post and the same distance going down, it's been mentioned somewhere about putting a backing in the middle and sticking both panels to it so it stays joined, is this needed, should this be done?

If tape is needed, where can I get this from today, I only have banner tape here?

Thanks
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Post Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:36 pm

Re: Signage going onto metal cladding on industrial unit

You can knock something like the attached up out of off cuts of Di-Bond. The gorilla tape should suffice as it's not taking any weight, and is readily available from Screwfix/B&Q.

Hope the drawing makes sense...
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Post Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:00 pm

Re: Signage going onto metal cladding on industrial unit

Thanks David

That makes perfect sense.

Thanks for the image.

Are the screws the correct ones though?
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Post Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:05 pm

Re: Signage going onto metal cladding on industrial unit

Yes they look the ones. The one's we have in our box have a wider, coarser thread.

Something like these http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p77363? ... SnnOkBEiQA
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Post Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:07 pm

Re: Signage going onto metal cladding on industrial unit

http://www.screwfix.com/p/rawlplug-self ... pack/79345 these screws are for applying the cladding onto the metal struts. Personally I would use splayed/peel rivets for attaching composite to cladding as they open up behind the cladding and give more stability https://www.seascrew.com/browse.cfm?SPE ... 0000001095

Also, and a 2-3 inch piece of composite strip along joins, 2 or 3 each side of join double side taped on one edge of the stip to keep both panels together.......hope this bit makes sense! :)
Last edited by Vic Adair on Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:13 pm

Re: Signage going onto metal cladding on industrial unit

Thanks David

Thanks and last questions I promise :smiles:

Do you use those exact screws i.e 25mm? going to purchase them this second.

What drill size is needed and do you pre drill the composite with a smaller bit?

Also, just realised there are god knows how many gorilla tapes out there, which one should I get?

Is this the correct one?

http://www.screwfix.com/p/gorilla-glue- ... -32m/79508

Finally, I get the slot system but would this not make the sign stick out slightly in the middle? or do you make it so it fits within the ridges and do it on site? I've got loads of off cuts so it's not an issue taking a few with me.

Sorry for the daft questions, if it was my sign i wouldn't think twice but this is my first big sign and I want to make sure it's 100%
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Post Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:23 pm

Re: Signage going onto metal cladding on industrial unit

I would like to add that by drilling into the cladding you are opening up holes through which water can enter. The rubber washers supplied with the tec screws are only good for the surface they are up against.
I would strongly suggest filling the holes and a few mm about the surrounding surface with silicone before you screw in the screws to make sure they are watertight.
Simon.
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Post Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:25 pm

Re: Signage going onto metal cladding on industrial unit

Thanks Simon, will do.
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Post Wed Jan 11, 2017 5:10 pm

Re: Signage going onto metal cladding on industrial unit

Sorry been out delivering.

Yes the cladding screws don't need to massive, as the coarse thread pulls them tight. No need to go through both skins of the cladding so 25mm should do.

I didn't know gorilla did different tapes. A decent foam double sided tape will do the job.

If it's a tray it's not a problem as it's only 6mm thick, if a flat panel there's a problem if it falls on a peak of the cladding, the the recess it'll be fine.

Most trays we have made had this system on the inside edge of any joints, works well if the wall is square.
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Post Wed Jan 11, 2017 5:14 pm

Re: Signage going onto metal cladding on industrial unit

Thanks David
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Post Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:08 pm

Re: Signage going onto metal cladding on industrial unit

We do a test drill and screw in a none too visible place, we've done some cladding where tex screws just didn't pull up tight.

We have to then turn to rivets. A rivet puller that fits into an impact drill saves a lot of time and hurt hands
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Post Mon Jan 16, 2017 2:56 pm

Re: Signage going onto metal cladding on industrial unit

Thanks for all your help guys.

Fitted the sign and it went on fine.

A few little notes for the future, not keen on the screws used, they did the job perfectly well but felt they look a bit ugly in my opinion, would rather use colour coded screws in future (If possible).

See attached image, first time posting an image. I designed the whole thing along with the windows so constructive criticism is welcome if you feel it could of been improved.

Thanks
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Post Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:20 pm

Re: Signage going onto metal cladding on industrial unit

The overall design looks good to me. Was it produced with cut vinyl?

You can get colour caps to go on the screwheads, although I'm not 100% sure where you'd get them from, I just know I've seen them on signs & buildings.
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Post Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:23 pm

Re: Signage going onto metal cladding on industrial unit

Thanks David

All printed, first real test of my vsi-640 printer in regards to large graphics, al the stuff I do is fairly small other than banners.

I'll have a look out for the caps then.
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Post Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:38 pm

Re: Signage going onto metal cladding on industrial unit

It looks the part, nice solid black :thumbsup:

How did you get on the the join, looks like one panel is fixed to the cladding the other is floating?

Something like this for the caps? http://www.pro-dec.com/hex-caps-bolt-covers-bolt-caps
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Post Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:49 pm

Re: Signage going onto metal cladding on industrial unit

Hi David

Both butted up against each other in the end rather than using the slot system. Both boards met on a single ridge so that ridge has 2 screws in it, one for each board, cosmetically not great but those boards are on nice and tight and they seem to have connected great with very little gap between them.

Going to have a play about with the slot system when I get some spare time, i'm thinking next time have the join in-between the ridges, this way they should be connected with tape and the extra depth (due to the extra materials) will get lost in the space between the ridges, in theory anyway.
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Post Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:49 pm

Re: Signage going onto metal cladding on industrial unit

Are they trays or did you change your mind?
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Post Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:30 pm

Re: Signage going onto metal cladding on industrial unit

Can I ask.....

Why print, when cut vinyl applied to black diabond/sky bond would have been cheaper / quicker / less problematic to do?
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Post Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:53 pm

Re: Signage going onto metal cladding on industrial unit

Ewan, decided against the trays based on price.

Denise, you're right but I had the materials and I pretty much wanted to let the printer have a go of it, first time printing in sections and I wanted the experience.
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Post Tue Jan 17, 2017 6:35 pm

Re: Signage going onto metal cladding on industrial unit

Good Job Daniel,

It is an obvious vinyl on ACM job, but as you say good experince for a large scale print sign.
I usually paint the fixings if I cant get caps to suit

Design wise spot on :thumbsup:
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Post Tue Jan 17, 2017 6:36 pm

Re: Signage going onto metal cladding on industrial unit

Thanks Martin
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Post Tue Jan 17, 2017 6:41 pm

Re: Signage going onto metal cladding on industrial unit

I like these fixings. Would be perfect for that job
https://signgeer.com/product/self-drill ... s-38mm-709
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Post Tue Jan 17, 2017 6:44 pm

Re: Signage going onto metal cladding on industrial unit

I found these today funnily enough, I was gonna see what people thought of them
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Post Tue Jan 17, 2017 6:54 pm

Re: Signage going onto metal cladding on industrial unit

I use them for the majority of face fixed signs now. Look much more professional than plastic caps in my opinion
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Post Tue Jan 17, 2017 8:35 pm

Re: Signage going onto metal cladding on industrial unit

Not knocking Signgeer, but you may find them cheaper with 5mins on google if you can be bothered. These look the same things http://www.kalfixings.com/screws/colour-screws/

Obviously don't be using self drillers to fix a sign to brick etc. :thumbsup:

Might invest in some of these myself. :thumbsup:
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Post Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:10 am

Re: Signage going onto metal cladding on industrial unit

Good find

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