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Do you check accreditations for logos?

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Post Wed May 04, 2016 12:46 pm

Do you check accreditations for logos?

We installed some graphics for a customer the other day, did the usual and took a photo of the van and tweeted it.

Someone has highlighted that the customer doesn't appear on either the gas safe of NICEIC database, despite having their logo's on the van.

So do you check that the customer is actually accredited before putting accreditation logo's onto the design, or as like we did, take the customers word in good faith?
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Post Wed May 04, 2016 1:18 pm

Re: Do you check accreditations for logos?

David,

I can't see how it's your responsibility to check that, you have to take the word of the customer, but in any case, even if they are not genuinely accredited, all they are doing is paying you to put certain info on to their vehicle, and they can ask you to put anything they like on there.

No one can come back to you and insist you remove it, but they could do the customer, but then that's their problem isn't it?

I've had this before where customers have even said they were in the process of becoming accredited and would add the number later etc. End of the day it's not our job to check all the possibilities.

Customers have to take responsibility for themselves. What made me laugh though was that someone actually checked it from the photo!
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Post Wed May 04, 2016 1:47 pm

Re: Do you check accreditations for logos?

If I'm asks to put certain logos for customers on vans i ask for the registered number they will have been given. Most of the time they give me a number but i don't check them.
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Post Wed May 04, 2016 2:07 pm

Re: Do you check accreditations for logos?

Good question,
In short, I don't check. I do ask for their registration No. for gas safe, but even then a couple have told me the don't like their No. on there in case someone pinches it and uses it fraudulently.. maybe I should ask for it for my records only. Technically we shouldn't be reproducing some of these logos without permission anyway so we should perhaps cover our backs by at least asking!
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Post Wed May 04, 2016 4:54 pm

Re: Do you check accreditations for logos?

Good question
And similarly - should we insist on proof that planning permission has been obtained before we install a sign?
Or do you just let you competitors take the job while your kids go hungry :-?
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Post Wed May 04, 2016 5:27 pm

Re: Do you check accreditations for logos?

To be honest Phil, I don't get involved in Planning permission... it's hard enough to justify the price sometimes, without explaining the time needed to obtain planning permission.

Once again, someone has gone making representations on behalf of 'signmakers', knowing full well that 90% don't have the resources to jump though all these hoops (CSCS, BS559, Planning Permission), and those of us who endeavor to do things by the book get a battering from those who don't.

Yes I could pay a hefty sum to be 'represented' by those who represent our trade, but despite asking I've yet to be told what benefit a small company will get.

Perhaps UKSG could represent the smaller companies on a national scale... but I digress.

I shall start asking for numbers, and checking them online.
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Post Wed May 04, 2016 5:56 pm

Re: Do you check accreditations for logos?

i wouldnt say it's your responsibility. and as hugh says, im not sure your actually allowed to recreate NICEIC logos gas safe etc, but everyone does it i think, well i do anyway.

at the end of the day, for all i know a customer could be using someone elses logos on their van, its not my duty to check wether there legitimate or not ?

Take the $$$ close your eyes n let it be
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Post Wed May 04, 2016 6:23 pm

Re: Do you check accreditations for logos?

I don't think it's our job to verify anything the client gives us, tells us or askes for specifically. We'll be checking passports and marriage licences next :roll: . If you want to cover your back then perhaps get the client to sign a disclaimer of sorts.

Neil
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Post Wed May 04, 2016 6:47 pm

Re: Do you check accreditations for logos?

I think our client may have upset someone...

The person tweeting is entertaining me... check out our twitter if you can, not sure I can post links to it.
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Post Wed May 04, 2016 7:18 pm

Re: Do you check accreditations for logos?

As Neil says, the best way around this is that the customer signs a simple disclaimer for all general vehicle graphics and the like. amongst the jargon there could be a sentence or two dedicated to the likes of these accreditation awards.
It just keeps you right...
I also agree on points mentioned, the amount of red tape we produce for customers whilst trying to "do the right thing", the less work we win. Again, maybe just a generalised document on any work like this carried out is signed. you dont have to go into specific details verbally. It is simply a disclaimer.

To be honest though, BSi, NIC EIC etc etc could have us for producing their copyright logos without authorization.
I know 3M are very heavy handed in those using their Logo.
I also know of companies using the British Signs & Graphics association logo on the vehicles and websites etc. again, these companies are dealt with firmly. And who can blame any of them, they are businesses like the rest of us.
Imagine one of us being hood-winked into dealing with a bogus Corgi Approved Gas fitter and in end event a life is lost and you have zero insurance cover on any damage? it does become a serious game to play by the culprits!

I also found out not so long ago whilst going through BSi - ISO audits that there is a huge growing number of "not so" legal ISO awarded companies out there. another story of course, but still relevant. basically ex-ISO staff consult and then perform their own version of an ISO significantly cheaper and easier to pass. You gain the award but its not awarded by the actual BSi, instead its by awarded by the auditor. So yes you sport the badge, but if a company actually digs further and doesn't take the award on face value they will quickly find out it's not legit, or the full proper award, if thats how to term it.

anyway, im rambling... :lol1:
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Post Wed May 04, 2016 7:31 pm

Re: Do you check accreditations for logos?

On the opposite side of the coin, the logos on a van etc are advertising the institution without a number they do not verify that the person is registered in fact a company can be registered but the driver of the vehicle may not be. Verification is done by a ID card with all details on it. The quote below is why we are not chased for reproducing the logo the other bodies all have similar things relating to their logo's & checking etc

From Gas Safe website
"Gas Safe registered businesses will often display their registration number along with their company name on their company vehicle or business stationery. You can check either of these details with us here."

Kev
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Post Thu May 05, 2016 1:36 am

Re: Do you check accreditations for logos?

How far should we go?

Should you verify that it's their van? I's their name REALLY "John Smith"? Are they a joiner?

....or have you just helped a master criminal disguise a stolen getaway vehicle for the heist of the century?

Firmly of the opinion that it's not our place to prove the validity of the our customer's details. If they openly declare that they are faking stuff or requesting forgeries I would not be involved with that part of the job.

Dave
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Post Thu May 05, 2016 9:15 am

Re: Do you check accreditations for logos?

Robert Lambie wrote:To be honest though, BSi, NIC EIC etc etc could have us for producing their copyright logos without authorization.


Normally once the company has achieved the accreditation the (whichever) institution allows the company to reproduce their logo for their own advertising purposes to indicate the the client that they are accredited or associated with said body.

Therefore, you as a printer/signwriter can reproduce their logo (gas safe etc) for an accredited company without recourse
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Post Fri May 06, 2016 1:15 pm

Re: Do you check accreditations for logos?

I'm sorry but some of you are wrong on this and Robert is spot on with his comment. Its nothing to do with finding our if the person is accredited or not, them being a gas safe member only gives them the right to purchase authorised items from authorised sources.

I'm not going into details but I reproduced a gas safe logo for customer just like David and someone complained to gas safe and next thing Im dealing with their legal team. They are in fact a very pleasant organisation to deal with and whilst they do have very stringent copyright of their logo and graphics they don't actually charge you to use their logo since they are non profit making, in fact when you apply for accreditation they actually send you the vector of it.

The key to this is you have to first apply to use their logo, in the application form you tell them why, what your going to use it for, who it will be available to, where, etc etc etc, your application then goes before a committee that meets once ever few weeks and if approved you can then carry on without payment but even then thats only to produce the items specified in the application, anything else needs to go through the same process.

If discovered that you have not taken this route they will prosecute repeat offenders, first timers may be lucky to escape with a warning.

I know the above is not ideal and very inconvenient when its for a one off or for a company that wants a few vans done, or t-shirts for staff but ultimately its down to your own choice on how you proceed.
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Post Fri May 06, 2016 1:32 pm

Re: Do you check accreditations for logos?

Thanks for your response Kevin :thumbup2:

So what you are saying is that we will need to obtain permission to use the Gas Safe logo, for each customers vehicle/Shirt/Business card?
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Post Fri May 06, 2016 1:39 pm

Re: Do you check accreditations for logos?

David Hammond wrote:Thanks for your response Kevin :thumbup2:

So what you are saying is that we will need to obtain permission to use the Gas Safe logo, for each customers vehicle/Shirt/Business card?



No for each product, T shirt, business card, vehicle sign etc, this also assumes they grant permission as they judge each case individually so if they already have X amount of people offering business cards to members they may decide they don't want any more.

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