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Avery Ezee Apply

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Post Sun Jun 06, 2004 11:59 am

Avery Ezee Apply

Does anyone know of a cheaper alternative to Avery 1005E (Ezee Apply) as we have just bpught a Roland SC540EX and I want to use this stuff but it cost a fortune
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Post Sun Jun 06, 2004 2:58 pm

Signco,

If you are planning on using a printed vinyl for vehicle wrapping then
personally I wouldn't even contemplate using anything but Avery 1005EZ
it literally is the best stuff, we have used plenty of different types of vinyl
with claims of great conformability, NONE of them come even close!!
Yes it is expensive (about £650 a roll). But what you have to consider is that if you use an inferior vinyl the amount of time you will spend struggling to get a decent finish - re-printing damaged sections it often balances out.

Just doing a Smart car with this material (will post some pics next week)
and it has lots of severe convex and concave curves on the same panel,
and it really does the job. Only critisism, it doesn't cut well with a scalpel when trimming the panels - Oh yes and the cost!!

If you've seen the Avery installation CD when using 900SC they use some special lint free gloves for pressing the material it tight angles, if you can find out where to get them from would be interested. Blagged 1 pair from the rep, fingers are now worn through and apparently not even anyone at avery knows where the come from.

Hope this is of some help.

Dollar Bill
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Post Sun Jun 06, 2004 3:07 pm

i keep meaning to ask our local film processor where he gets his gloves from

chris
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Post Sun Jun 06, 2004 4:02 pm

You can get them from Spandex - cost about £9/pair though !

Nigel
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Post Sun Jun 06, 2004 4:23 pm

I think Cherwell might do them.
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Post Sun Jun 06, 2004 9:40 pm

how much does it cost a metre & why is it so easy to apply?
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Post Sun Jun 06, 2004 9:53 pm

Dollar Bill

Do you use a laminate over the easy apply, if so what do you use?

We've got a roll of it to do our own van with, just need some spare time!

Am I right that you've got a JV3, do you use mainly avery vinyl?

I dont think the gloves at Cherwells are the avery ones, I think they are too cheap, just sold as suitable for handling digital prints but maybe wrong.

Rebecca
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Post Sun Jun 06, 2004 10:12 pm

I could be wrong here Rebecca but if I have understood the guy on the Avery stand properly, easy apply is perforated vinyl which helps prevent any bubbles. It’s also very conformable and can be lifted once applied if wrong.
If you laminate the print I would guess you are sealing the perforations. I would also advise only to laminate using a clear of equal properties. Meaning easy apply as laminate too... costs climbing here.
Having not used this vinyl I can’t comment fairly. But other than no bubbles it appears to be just another wrap vinyl. Ill have to get a sample to mess around with I think.
on another note.. vehicle wrapping is already becoming under priced because of cowboys selling bad fittings and more. trying to sell a wrap with the added costs of such a vinyl may prove difficult :-?
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Post Sun Jun 06, 2004 10:41 pm

Rob,

I don't think the vinyl has perforations in - As I understand it there are tiny channels in the adhesive on the back. So as you squeegy down the air can escape down the little "tubes" formed, and I think when you have left it for a bit the adhesive kind of "bleeds" together to fill the gaps and form a secure bond.... thats my interpretation anyhow :D

Nigel
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Post Mon Jun 07, 2004 2:01 am

it has embossed air channels in it which pretty much allows you to push out any bubbles, it works great for wraps because it allows you to stick it then pull it back off to reposition it. it goes on dry. I have recently had the chance to work with a company that just does vehicle wraps and they use the 3m control tac with comply which is pretty much the same stuff as avery's EZ apply. I was amazed when the installers left a whole panel stuck on the van we were wrapping crooked and went to lunch we came back and the pulled it off and went back to work. there was one point in the wrap where one panel was almost 3/4 of the way squeeeged down and it was not matching up properly and we were able to pull it up and re stick it. this stuff is really great.
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Post Mon Jun 07, 2004 2:37 am

Hmmm I don’t get were im getting this perforations from then... I could simply be wrong, but not something I would imagine. I hope
Anyway... what you say about Avery Nigel is what I have known about with 3M controltac, like Dan says... channels in the adhesive to allow air expulsion.
I worked on hundreds of cable vehicles wrapping their new corporate logo on vehicles using controltac. Initial order was 1600 vehicles.

Shown below
Image

Image


I really liked the feel of the controltac but I would say it was far from a repositionable vinyl. (So im confused again) yes, you could get it back up but I would say it wasn’t any easier than standard vinyl’s. As for wrapping it did work, but I have had reports from all over the UK saying it’s pulling back from the recesses on the cable work contract. It did not do this with any van I wrapped so im going to put that down to who is applying it that’s maybe at fault. As far as I am led to believe 3M dropped the controltac as a wrap vinyl? Again I could be wrong, but that was last year and I have never seen it being promoted in the uk for this.

Back to the Avery.. Again. I’m obviously wrong with how this is achieved but how is it impossible to get bubbles then? If based on the same theory as controltac. Bubbles can and did happen with that vinyl. Yes it maybe helped a little but wasn’t fail safe.

I'm puzzled now.. :roll:
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Post Mon Jun 07, 2004 3:29 am

ok.. new reply :wink:

had a search for info and found stuff on sign web.. some quotes as follows.

How it works

These products are easy to use because their adhesives are embossed with a network of microscopic tunnels. According to Tim Doyle, technical marketing manager for Avery Dennison's signage division (Painesville, OH), embossing the adhesive causes less than half its surface area to touch the application substrate, which cuts the adhesive's grabbing power accordingly. This means the installer can more easily reposition the graphic during the application process.

Tunnels facilitate application because they provide escape routes for air trapped underneath the vinyl. Air is expelled when the graphic is squeegeed.




trailer graphic features 3M's Controltac films with Comply Performance. The film comprises microscopic glass beads on the adhesive surface that form a barrier between it and the substrate. Squeegee pressure pushes bead fragments into the adhesive, forcing it to touch the substrate.


One key difference: Comply™ and EZ-Apply™ films bond to a substrate much more slowly than other films. The adhesive bond builds in stages and may require days -- even months -- to form an ultimate bond.
Until ultimate adhesion is reached, the bond to these surfaces is vulnerable. To accelerate the process, especially in cold temperatures, try warming the graphics with a heat gun or propane torch. The added heat aids adhesive flow, which increases bonding.

Adhesion is a function of time, temperature and pressure. Even after the graphics have been installed, tiny air channels still exist. However, installers can release bubbles by simply applying thumb pressure.


While Comply and EZ-Apply films are designed for use without application fluid, some signmakers who prefer wet applications must squeegee out all the moisture, or the fluid will be trapped in the air tunnels. Any residual moisture will freeze in wintertime temperatures, which could cause adhesion failure. In my opinion, there's no excuse for using application fluid.


I have read the whole passage on sign web and some really interesting stuff... but for the cost and the possible failures of the vinyl i am not convinced for vehicle wrapping & deep recess work etc... temporary/short term work maybe..
Ok so it’s been getting tried and tested all over the place so who am I to say they are wrong...:-? Many vinyls have claims, many fail.
I know many stories about 3M controltac... so who’s right and who’s wrong? :roll:
If this vinyl takes so long days, weeks etc to cure what chance has the vinyl got at staying in a deep recess if there isn’t adequate enough grip to prevent a pull back.
Anyway.. ill have to get some in now and give it a go… :-? :lol: :lol:
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Post Mon Jun 07, 2004 12:23 pm

Everyone,

Thanks for the information about the gloves, I will follow that up today,

As regards to over lamination, we have not bothered on our most recent project as it is a short term job and does'nt really need it, but to be honest I think it would totally compromise the conformability of the material even if you used the thinnest of over laminate. Once printed on our JV3 and left to cure it seems tough as old boots!

Rob,

With reference to the curing times of these kinds of vinyl, when you are applying with heat once the vinyl is conformed and down on the surface you cure the material by baking it on to the surface with the heat gun (75-85 degrees?) after that it seems to refuse to pop out.

Last point - Don't get it wet - application fluid etc, It totally refuses to stick once any moisture is present, as you mentioned any liquid just gets trapped in the channels and is impossible to work out.

Dollar Bill
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Post Mon Jun 07, 2004 11:23 pm

Avery easy apply can be over varnished with a sericol varnish.

The vinyl is supposed to be very good for vehicle wraps due to its conformability but as 'dollar bill' states is costly.

It was shown being applied as a wrap with very good results on the avery course for printed media and alongside the 900 supercast vinyl for flat colours.

Rebecca
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Post Tue Jun 08, 2004 12:08 am

Thanks for reminding me of the Telewest vans, Rob! I did a some fitting on a few of them at Corby last year and it was a nightmare. Every other kit I opened was different to the one before. Anyway, someone mentioned a perforated material: I have heard of something like this for use on aircraft. Apparently the perforations allow for better expansion/contraction due to the large amount of this that occurs on airybuzzers. Or summink...
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Post Tue Jun 08, 2004 12:21 am

Lost me at 'aircraft' :o :o :(

Cheers, Dewi
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Post Tue Jun 08, 2004 3:26 pm

Robert....

Ah, the old shape Transit. Fun weren't they?

We've just done four hundred odd Vivaros and they are a lot easier, they take something like half the time. No deep swages and those lovely full height rear lamps so that the graphic doesn't have to go around the back corner.

As it happens they did get an alternative quote for doing them in Ezi-Apply but in he end turned it down and stuck with Controltac. We did a couple of prototypes in the Avery for them and found it much easier, but were happy with their decision because the more difficult material limited the number of local competitors who could do the work.

I've got a picture, but can't post it here. :(
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Post Tue Jun 08, 2004 7:46 pm

Haven’t done anymore in a while mate but did do the bulk of the 1600 Scottish ones. They seemingly now have someone doing the remainder at half the price we charged & boy can you tell :lol: :lol: :lol:
they were easy money but I felt took just too much time up for our other customers.
At one point they wanted 6 a day! Fine... get in more staff we thought.. Easier said than done :o
I witnessed the Avery demo at sign UK the vinyl did conform and apply well. But this guy was a pro so always looks easier.
I obviously picked up something wrong while watching regarding perforations, but didn’t imagine it to be based on the same idea as controltac. Controltac was promoted similar from memory, but not now?
Have you heard reports of ez-apply failing or is it just too new?
I’m always the type that has to be proved wrong on my view of a vinyl before ill try it but after reading curing times alone.. it does concern me... (it does say heat speeds up the process, but upto 4 weeks to cure?)
doing as much of this stuff as you do, you will know yourself that its not “just” how a wrap/cast vinyl actually applies its 4 weeks later when its all pulled back that should be the main concern. :-?
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Post Tue Jun 08, 2004 10:11 pm

Ezee Apply

Thanks guys for all the feedback I have watched with interest. Instalation guy didnt turn up today but is coming tomorrow. But!!!!!

Was on the phone to Coxs platics on another matter and in the conversation I found this:

Avery MPI 1005EZ is a cast vinyl costing approx £13.50 per linear metre (1370mm wide) ( cast is very thim material 53 microns thick and is poured not rolled)
Avery MPI 2005EZ is a calendered vinyl costing approx £5.50 per linear metre and is 120 microns thick

Obviously the thinner the material the easier it is to work into the grooves but ezee apply is amaxing stuff so if you have jobs that are just a little tricky like going over sprinter grooves then you may well get away with 2005, I have just bought two rolls and will report back on the results.

Many thanks for the feedback, I have just bought a box of 24 lint fre cotton gloves for about £16 and I will let you know how they perform

Regards Adrian (I tried to upload a phot but avatar rejected me) sent a photo of my dog to Rob as its better looking but he rejected it too

speak soon (blame the spelling on Tennents)
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Post Tue Jun 08, 2004 10:53 pm

Robert...

We never did that many old shape Transits in the re-branding exercise, probably only about two hundred or so, plus some Ivecos and Scudos. The majority in this area were done by a firm in Birmingham and we only got involved when there was internal racking work to be done. Our primary involvement has always been with new vans, hence the reason we are still doing them

We too had pricing problems last December with competitors coming in at half our price, some lower. It didn't take the low quoters long to find out that they couldn't do them fast enough to make money and they soon disappeared. Two companies that had a go were doing one and a half vans per day per fitter whilst my boys were doing four each. :D


The outcome was that we had to settle for a bit lower price than previously, but still more than acceptable.

The normal rate since December has been five per day with peaks as high as eight. Like you I found finding extra labour to do them profitably easier said than done so what I did was to have my own lads do Telewest and got in a bit of part-time labour to do our normal, easier work as necessary. It worked.

We have never previously been matched against local competition and one by-product of this saga is that it has made me realise how good my lads are in comparison and I now appreciate them a lot more. The trouble is that they know it as well and want more money. :(
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Post Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:00 pm

John, I consider myself a reasonably good fitter, but I must say I was somewhat humbled by the rate at which your geezers were whipping through those vans. P'raps you're putting something in their tea? :)
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Post Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:49 pm

Thanks for that comment Andy. It's much appreciated.

For your amusement, the other firm that were in there last December lasted until Christmas. In the New Year they tried two other firms with similar results - one did four vans and the other twenty. We've done all the rest.

There is a batch of sixty Scudos in the pipleline and I reckon that they are the most difficult of the lot. I'm going to have fun pricing them. :D


singnco....

Sorry for taking your thread off topic. We had our Avery rep in this afternoon and he told me about the calendered Ezee Apply although the thickness wasn't mentioned. I would be dubious about using something 120 micron thick on a Sprinter body swages. Not only are they deep they also have sharp corners.

As an aside, make sure yours is a Sprinter and not a Volkswagen LT. Although nominally the same van, VW use a different transit wax and they take a lot more cleaning before applying vinyl. We charge extra for VWs over Mercs.

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