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why is banner vinyl peeling off prematurely?

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Post Tue May 28, 2013 12:42 am

why is banner vinyl peeling off prematurely?

Made a banner 3 weeks ago using macsoft white vinyl. It was fitted at room temperature and has only been used indoors since. The customer called today to say the vinyl was coming off the banner. The vinyl is lifting around every edge.
What could be causing this? I will obviously be re doing it for the customer but ive not had this problem before so i'm a bit wary about using the same vinyl.

Thanks

Ewan
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Post Tue May 28, 2013 1:19 am

How did you clean the banner before applying the banner vinyl Ewan & did you post heat it at all?
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Post Tue May 28, 2013 7:47 am

Banner was cleaned with turps and no heat was applied
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Post Tue May 28, 2013 8:19 am

personally i wouldnt clean with turps
i have isoprop alcohol but this sometimes leaves a residue
best i have used is the avery cleaner use it on all surfaces now with excelent results
also would post heat the text etc on banners on banners

derek
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Post Tue May 28, 2013 8:58 am

As Derek says, I wouldn't use turps either. Turps will leave a petroleum film on the surface and effectively create a barrier between the vinyl adhesive and the banner material. I've used all sorts of cleaning fluids but always gone back to simply washing them with warm water and Jif (renamed nowadays I think) sponge rinsed off and dried and have never had any problems at all, even on long term jobs. Post heating as well.
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Post Tue May 28, 2013 8:59 am

Turps is pretty oily so leaves a residue.

Isopropyl or even meths cleans & degreases pretty well.

Heating on shouldn't be necessary but does ensure a superior grab.

I think the turps was your downfall on this occasion.

Dave
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Post Tue May 28, 2013 9:50 am

Thanks all, time to change the cleaning fluid. Can't remembe where or who but I was told that turps was the best thing to use.
Ah well, still learning
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Post Wed May 29, 2013 8:48 am

I would never use turps /white spirit for reasons stated above. I use either glue and tar remover (make sure it had dried thoroughly ) or meths.
Alan D
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Post Sat Jun 01, 2013 10:32 pm

I would never use turps, use rapid prep or Avery surface cleaner and you won't have any problems.
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Post Sun Jun 02, 2013 12:57 am

Have now changed to meths
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Post Sun Jun 02, 2013 1:24 am

It could be the vinyl itself, but I agree, never use an oil solvent like turps to clean the surface.
Plasticizer Migration can cause vinyl graphics to peel off too. Not all vinyl fabrics are suitable for sign work. Plasticizers are used to keep the material soft and flexible. If there is an excess of it in the material, it may migrate to the surface and slough off along with the lettering. Here's a detailed description of the condition.
http://www.flex-europa.com/products_plasticizer.htm
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Post Sun Jun 02, 2013 10:55 am

As above I never use turps or white spirit for cleaning (other than when I spell something wrong while painting a sign!!)

I used meths for years but even that leaves a slight residue so now we use Avery or Image Perfect surface cleaner.

Meths doesn't taste good either :-?
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Post Sun Jun 02, 2013 11:11 am

We always use, in the following order, for every job:

1 Water with detergent

2 Prepsol, (Also known as Prepwash, Autoclean, Solwash)

3 Isopropyl alcohol.

We have never yet had a failure due to grease or dirt.

All the above are available cheaply in bulk.

Simon.
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Post Sun Jun 02, 2013 2:26 pm

I agree with the others, I think your downfall was the turps!
Completely scrap using that for anything connected to your vinyl work mate.

Isopropyl alcohol or Industrial Meths is what i prefer to use.
dont buy from the likes of B&Q though, buy it from a Janitorial / Cleaning Chemicals type supplier. You will buy it in 25litre drums which will last you months and only cost about £30ish

Buying from local stories will cost you about £10 for a small hand size bottle. :-?
Industrial Meths is Clear, domestic is purple. dont buy the domestic stuff, the purple in it can dye certain surfaces, including resprayed vehicles. i have that T-shirt from many moons ago. :wink:

Be careful buying either ISO or Meths thats clear, make sure you have a sealed container as you maybe buying watered down bottles, which is not uncommon. you can tell if it doesnt remove the likes of pen ink on first swipe, or if the fluid beads on the surface rather than evaporates very fast.

There are ways the vinyl can fail simply by the way the customer treats the banner. if the banner is folded rather than "rolled". this can create dog-earing of the vinyl, creases and so on.

also, you cannot roll it tight. loose or around an old card vinyl core tube.

You MUST roll the banner with the vinyl facing out, not inwards as again this can cause the vinyl to come off.

apply with a nylon squeegee rather than felt.

heat promotes adhesion also, but dont overheat one area or you can create gloss patches on the banner.

if you banner is stiched, dont cross the stitching with vinyl. to be honest if you do your too close to the edge with vinyl anyway. :lol1:
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Post Sun Jun 02, 2013 11:06 pm

Found a place that sells it and there was this message........

IMPORTANT

You will need to register your interest in this product with HM Revenue and Customs before we can supply you. Please call them on 0845 010 9000 and they will send you a registration letter. It does not take long and HM Customs and Excise are normally really helpful. They normally refer to this product as 'IDA' or 'Industrial Denatured Alcohol'.
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Post Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:05 am

I use to buy IPA from Alpha Chemicals Ewan, I say use to because I haven't bought any for a couple of years now. 25 ltrs lasts a long time when you only work part time lol.
Think they are based in Denny, 01324 824181

Don't know if those details are up to date but you should find them with a search.
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Post Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:22 am

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Post Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:10 pm

Martin Cole wrote:http://www.shinyhardware.co.uk/prods/showcat.asp?cid=3563

good for Isopropanol


Nice one thanks, Just ordered very reasonable.
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Post Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:48 pm

yep +1 for the shiny people
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Post Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:23 pm

shiny for me too, great price
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Post Tue Jun 04, 2013 8:00 pm

Next time you order Martin you should ask for commission lol.
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Post Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:57 pm

Kevin Busby wrote:Next time you order Martin you should ask for commission lol.


:D :D



A guy who helped me wrap some vans the other week told me about them.



A lot of 'Shiny Happy People'..... (-music)
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Post Wed Oct 02, 2013 12:49 pm

Martin Cole wrote:
Kevin Busby wrote:Next time you order Martin you should ask for commission lol.






A lot of 'Shiny Happy People'..... (-music)


+ 1 more here :wink: Cheers Martin
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Post Thu Oct 03, 2013 4:46 am

IPA

http://www.bonnymans.co.uk/products/pro ... ticleID=-1

WE buy it is 205 litre drums from here about £175 I seem to remember

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