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Questionable accuracy of vehicle outlines

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Simon Worrall

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Post Wed Jun 20, 2012 11:35 pm

Questionable accuracy of vehicle outlines

Hey everyone
I subscibe to SIGNELEMENTS.COM, for my vehicle outlines.
This morning we were putting some simple graphics onto a Ford Ranger double cab pickup.
I had wanted to fit the logo on the tailgate between the handle and the LH edge. Using the outline from this website, I cut out all the graphics, three colours cut vinyl registered.
We found the graphics to be too large, by a fairly hefty amount.
The outlines for some reason come as 1:30, so everything has to be scaled 300% before you can use it.
The width of the tailgate on the outline is out by 140mm! This is not just a bit off, this is a potential nightmare. if this was a full wrap I would have had to reprint hundreds of dollars worth of material and time. Fortunately it was only cut vinyl, and we have recut it and Brendan is applying it now.

Does this mean you cannot trust these things? These subs are not cheap, and accuracy is kind of assumed. I will be moving to Brian's outlines as soon as my sub runs out, and I hope his outlines are more trustworthy. Lots of money and time depends on them.
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ranger 06.jpg
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David McDonald

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Post Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:19 am

Hi

We use the Impact library, and generally find they are within 5% for accuracy but I think this margin is mostly due to the fact a 2D wire frame can't ever represent the fact that actual vinyl onto the 3D surface might need to be longer or shorter to account for real world curves. As I recall there are a few bigger glitches but these are quite rare - if we are ever doing a vehicle for the first time we don't trust templates for anything but just general sizes and layout. Of all the template options we have looked at Impact are easily the best.

In your case that seems a big error for what is a fairly flat panel. I'm not in work today but it would be ingesting to see what it measures in other templates.

Cheers
Macky
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Denise Goodfellow

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Post Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:27 am

We too use Impact

They are a guide only, a good tool to show the customer and should not be treated as perfect.

We have to keep reminding my step son this, last week he flooded a Vivaros side and rear panels in a design.

we have a Vivaro and we measured the rear panel and it was way out, if we hadn`t have looked at our van he would have printed it too big for the main design to fit in the panel.

BTBH, they save us loads of time.
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Mike Grant

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Post Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:33 am

I gave up on these many years ago. I always photograph the vehicle and that way there are no mistakes with trims etc. Outlines are for lazy people and you will pay for the mistakes.
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Simon Worrall

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Post Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:32 am

I can understand a few mm here and there, certainly the various creases in the bodywork will be represented by a single line which could as easily be a shadow as a highlight, therefore I would not trust this to be accurate.
Likewise I understand they are 2d representations of 3d objects, so the actual curve would be longer in reality. All these things can be taken into account.
But the width of a flat tailgate panel, from one end to another, is not controversial. You can measure it with a tape, accurately, in half a minute.
140mm off is almost ten percent wrong!
This has thrown me, as we are starting to get busy with vehicle wraps, and they are fantastic for concepts and design.
Mike, I would'nt call it lazy to use these, they are a tool, it is no more lazy than to use a plotter instead of a brush, although now that I am aware of the drawbacks, I will take your advice and double check everything against a real vehicle from now on.

BTW Denise, what does BTBH mean?

Simon.
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David McDonald

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Post Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:35 am

Hello again

I still think they're a valuable tool but you just have to realistic about their shortcomings.

For most vans that now come through the door we have a good idea as to where the differences are - yes, Vivaro/Traffic/Primastar the back recess panel template is wrong on some model outlines, I think the side door side panel on a Berlingo classic is a bit out etc.

We use the Impact one in conjunction with our own home made collection of recess templates - we now have accurate recess templates for about 20 vans so we can contour cut them exactly, the same for rear templates for Chapter 8 kits.

BRIAN AT IMPACT - why don't you launch another product for traced recess templates (complete with horizontal datum shown), and traced rear templates for Chapter 8 kits ???

Cheers
Macky
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Simon Worrall

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Post Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:54 am

@David, good idea.
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Denise Goodfellow

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Post Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:05 am

Simon Worrall wrote:But the BTW Denise, what does BTBH mean?

Simon.


but to be honest :D
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Denise Goodfellow

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Post Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:07 am

There must be a market for scaleable side / rear / front views on photos of the vans.
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David Rowland

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Post Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:45 am

their copyright as photos
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Simon Worrall

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Post Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:54 am

Dave Rowland wrote:their copyright as photos


?
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Stephen Morriss

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Post Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:55 am

Trouble with photo's is changing the colour easily, not sure if there is a problem with copyright Dave as the copyright would belong to the person/company taking the photo's, same as the drawings.

I only use them as a guide and try to get a photo of the actual vehicle being signwritten.

steve
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Brian Hays

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Post Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:02 pm

Simon, are you sure your Ranger is the same as the European one? I know the One in the U.S. is completely different to those we have here.

Mostly photos are much less accurate. As an example a customer wanted the exact shape of the rear panel (behind the doors) of an Astra van. Our outline was useful as a guide but not accurate enough. Scaling a photo, the panel came out around 4 inches to short when the length was scaled. The panel is now accurate enough to cut a printed panel from. And it's on our web site for anybody to download/check/use.

Denise I don't know what version you have but the sizes of the doors on the Vivaro/Trafic/Primastar should now be pretty good.

We are working on templates for the Chevron kits. It's taking longer than we would like. I guess these will also be useful if you want to print into panels on the rear doors of vans without going over recesses etc. If anybody has a Vivaro/Trafic that would like to check some shapes for me & give their verdict I would be happy to email them over.
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George Elsmore

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Post Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:11 pm

chevron kit templates would be mega!!!!
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Reza Faezi

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Post Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:23 pm

Brian, that would be great if you could, so much time would be saved, being able to apply it with no trimming = no hassle/fuss
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Warren Beard

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Post Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:45 pm

I've had this with the impact outline for the L200 double cab, full width wrap to the tailgate, I added bleed and it came out about 100mm too short. It's still a great tool and I just updated my copy this week, only if the design needs to fit tightly I'll measure otherwise they are generally very good.

Cheers

Warren
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Jason Xuereb

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Post Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:50 am

We always measure. We use the outline in the design process. But before printing or cutting anything we get the vehicle in for a measure.

You'd be surprised with vans when people tell you its SWB or LWB when its not.
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Simon Worrall

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Post Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:26 am

Brian it sure looks the same, which is a pretty good guide. And the length is correct.

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