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New 3M CALENDAR VINYL. has anyone tried it yet?

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Post Sun May 05, 2002 3:00 am

New 3M CALENDAR VINYL. has anyone tried it yet?

I've just received a roll of the "new" 3M series 50 calendered vinyl. It's rated at 5 years, is well priced and claims t meet the needs of most signwork except where the good contour conformity of cast vinyl is required, ie. mostly flat surfaces.

So far it looks good, I'll test it outside a bit, good colours, weeds well.

Has anyone else used it yet?
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Last edited by Gray Hodge on Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Sun May 05, 2002 9:40 am

hi gray.
yeh mate ive seen and used it. just some samples though.
my first feeling on the stuff was it felt a little thick. not like blown wallpaper thick but well you know what i mean. when i feel a vinyl like this it makes me think! "how the hell would somthing like this cope with rivettes."
this was only recently & i was discussing the group with the guy from 3M.
again they wanted to supply our group but i felt, im not gonna have a company like 3M supplying our group when all they are willing to offer is there budget range.
the second point ide like to add is say to the rep how long he will gaurantee those prices. i think you will find this is an introductory offer . at least this is what i was told by there rep when i asked what garuantees could they give the group on fixed prices. 5-6 months then back up the prices go. not as high as there normal stuff i may add but higher than what they say.
my thoughts on the vinyl were also this. 3M without a doubt are the biggest vinyl manufacturer. and probably have the very best vinyls on the market. "along with the highest prices" so why when coming up with a calendar vinyl cant they even match the properties of mactac or the oracal 751. this is a calendar vinyl but a true 7 year vinyl.
a 5-7 year calendar range means the colours are upto 5 years & the balck and white are upto 7 years.
with oracal 651 and 751 they are all the life stated. ie. colours and black and white all 7 years + life.
i once had an interesting conversation with one of the guys from hexis.
if its completely true or not im not sure but he made some very valid points. anyway, what he said was lots of vinyls are simply the same make.
he said mactac vinyl comes in from the continent as vinyl only. people like mactac and hexis buy this stuff in and apply the adhesive and carrying paper with there logo on the rear. its the exact same stuff only a differnt carrying paper and adhesive. i know the adhesive plays a big part but the quality of the vinyl is the exact same. i.e the thickness and the UV stabilty proerties.
it got me thinking that maybe. only maybe! this is what has happend here. the vinyl is a moderate quality brand calendar. and has simply been brought out as a 3M vinyl.
this kind of stuff happens all the time. hienz make beans but when packaging them up they switch labels and sell them as safeway beans at a much lower cost. and so on.
well theres my rabble about your question maybe somone will kick me into touch but this is my feelings on the 3M calendar range.
hope its of help mate. :P :P
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Post Sun May 05, 2002 12:46 pm

Thanks for your informative comments Robert.

I have been making further comparisons (the rep will want to know what I think when he comes on Thursday).

The 3M 50 is a calendared vinyl, so I can expect it to be thicker than cast.

It appears to be little different than Avery 700 polymeric, also has the same outdoor life.

Probably all comes from the same factory :(
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Last edited by Gray Hodge on Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Sun May 05, 2002 12:50 pm

You could be right Robert, VWS vehicle wrap is made by KPMF and branded on the back VWS. Hexis vehicle wrap is also made by KPMF and is branded Hexis.
What I would like to know is what governs the amount of shrinkage in a vinyl? I know the differences in manufacture between cast and callendered vinyl.
Callendered vinyls shrink because of the way they are made, but different vinyls seem to shrink by different amounts, is this due to the thickness of the film, the type of film ( polymeric or momomeric), the adhesives used or am I being a complete bore and shut up?
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Post Sun May 05, 2002 11:04 pm

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Last edited by Lorraine Buchan on Fri Apr 23, 2004 11:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Mon May 06, 2002 9:25 am

often wondered who decides what colours are made in all vinyl ranges when are the makers going to wake up to the fact that the world operates three major colour matching systems these are primarily designed to make colour specification standard ie the Pantone Colour Matching system this is the very very best system in use worldwide why then do the designers of vinyl range colours take absolutely no notice of this system why not make colour ranges that match corporate colours why do they make life so difficult for the very professionals who are charged with the task of corporate id representation on a daily basis ...US! Perhaps this posting will promote a reply from somebody who can explain why all colour ranges are annoyingly different from the colours i need to match some ritrama colours do try ie Reflex blue its a start similar problem with acrylics and Foam PVC colours COME ON SIGN INDUSTRY SUPPLIERS GET IN THE LOOP GIVE US USER FRIENDLY PRODUCTS GIVE US INTERESTING VINYLS ie GRADUATED GIVE US THE TOOLS TO USE OUR INBUILT FLAIR!! PS the new JAG is great but its not a Subaru!!
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Post Mon May 06, 2002 12:10 pm

...in contrast to your points Steve (well some anyway), I don't necessarily want corporate colour schemes for my vinyl because I don't want all my customers signs having the same 'flavour' as the latest high street names...and surely these would then end up changing from year to year and we'd end up with everyone else having to change likewise - it'd be a bit like those football teams that keep changing kit just to rake in the money... :wink:

I'm not disagreeing - it's just another point of view...personally I'd like to see more 'earth' colours, that is, colours that look a little less vivid and a little less 'plastic' - I know that vinyl is a form of plastic but I think a great many signs would look so much nicer if they were created using slightly softer hues and more 'organic' colours. Reds that were a little more 'brick' than 'blood' and Greens that were more 'Olive Grove' and less 'larger can'...

I suppose that's the problem...so many signmakers want so many different things from their vinyl. It's like the old saying 'you can't be all things to all people', we have larger sign companies reproducing pre-specified corporate identities and also smaller signmakers creating individual first generation designs... hmmm...In light of this I do agree that there should be more 'effect' and 'speciality' vinyls but didn't they used to have these across the trade but dropped them because they didn't sell?...

you can't win mate...but, like you, I'd still like to get the person who chooses the colours alone in a studio for a minute or two... :wink:

more soon
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Post Mon May 06, 2002 2:34 pm

vinyl

Robert,

You are correct it what you say about the vinyl suppliers

they put the 3 components of the vinyl together,
the face film, and adhesive and the backing paper

they specify the requirements to the manufacturers of the products, the make up of the film

in europe there are only a handfull of pvc face film suppliers
and dozens of vinyl manufacturers

as for the colour ranges, I think its good business to be different and try and have unique ranges

Just one point about the 3m vinyl, can someone confirm to me that it is a true PVC face film, and not a polyethelene / polypropylene type of film
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Post Mon May 06, 2002 3:55 pm

Very interesting topic this, I didn't know it would develope this way.

I would love to know the truth about where vinyls come from so we can stop being conned by the "latest" film

I got caught a bit with 3M E film that came out a while back, it was to be the vinyl to end all vinyls but there was never so troublesome a vinyl as this, especially in colder climates where it wouldn't adhere.

Again, it seems to me that Avery 700 and 3M series 50 are the same vinyl.
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Last edited by Gray Hodge on Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Mon May 06, 2002 4:44 pm

It was interesting to hear that many of the vinyl brands are thought to be the same - only branded differently. However, I believe Europoints 751 series stands alone as in my experience it is a thinner film than other 5-7 year vinyls I have tried - therefore I assume it must be made differently not just "badge engineered".

In my previous life I worked in the production process of a large brewing company. As well as the companies own brands, we produced under license Asda lagers and Ales as well as other supermarket brands. These were literaly watered down (i.e. weaker) versions of the companies own brands - clearly inferior but could be sold at a lower price. Based on that knowledge I would hesitate to jump to any conclusions and say all vinyls are the same. They may be made in the same place by on or two big companies - but I suspect each brand will have it's own particular specification making it different from the competition.
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Post Tue May 07, 2002 1:49 pm

The plot thickens!
I was speaking to an Austalian from another site who reckons this vinyl could be oracal rebadged.

Frankly I wonder if there is any difference apart from the liner betweeen Oracal, Avery and 3M!

I think we're all being conned!
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Last edited by Gray Hodge on Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Wed May 08, 2002 12:24 am

i would stick my neck out and say its not oracal.
for a starter. if it was oracal, rebranded. why does it have a shorter UV life. 3M is 5-7 year calendar. oracal is 7 years +

as to phil.. i dont think the vinyl is were the quality differs. i tend to think its more to do with the adhesive that has been used.
some cheap vinyls leave tons of glue when removed. the higher grade ones do to an extent. but its not the gungy thick kind.
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Post Wed May 08, 2002 12:30 am

True Robert, I've had a sample of Oracal outside for years in the sun, I tried removing the letters the other day and found they came off clean and neat, very little shrinkage too.

Oracal is harder to get in Tasmania, shame really.

How can us mortals tell which is going to be the best in a few years without doing our own tests like this?
It's a real problem, we only have the claims and counter claims of the vinyl suppliers to go by.
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