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Nikkalite reflective (from europoint)

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Hugh Potter

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Post Tue Oct 07, 2008 10:22 am

Nikkalite reflective (from europoint)

hi all,
i phoned yesterday to order 25m of red and at the last minute i discovered that nikkalite is being withdrawn from europoint and replaced with orafol (oracles) reflective,

i was expecting a sample this morning that i could cut/test/try out for sutability, but it's not arrived (usually arrives before i'm even out of bed!) so i'm not sure what to do now.

has anyone used both of these materials?
how do they compare?

only got a week to get this order done, so need to be certain, or go elsewhere and buy nikkalite (i'd rather stick to europoint).

cheers.
Hugh
Last edited by Hugh Potter on Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Hugh Potter

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Post Tue Oct 07, 2008 11:18 am

sample just arrived, i can't make a proper assesment until tonight under real conditions, but i'm not sure i like it, very much like the old kiwilite, thin, not as reflective as the nikkalite either (under flash photo anyways).

all i need when i have one week to produce 2000 items for a major player in the field i target.
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Post Tue Oct 07, 2008 12:14 pm

Try to find 3M Scotchlite. I tried the Oracal stuff and found it thinner, harder to weed (tears easily) and generally not near as nice as the 3M.
Love....Jill
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Shane Drew

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Post Tue Oct 07, 2008 12:28 pm

Hugh, I've used both Nikkalite and Oracal/orafol.

To be honest, I changed to Oracal because its thinner, a better adhesive, and I found it much easier to work with although its harder to weed without tearing as Jill says.

That said, this year I have moved all my reflective business over to the 3M 680cr, because its print receptive, better than the other two, and the 'cr' version is removable, and bubble free to apply.

Here, the costs are similar, but by far the superior product of all 3.

Just my experience anyway.
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Jon Marshall

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Post Tue Oct 07, 2008 1:39 pm

3M is very nice, but at nearly £25 a metre it ought to be!

Allprint do Nikkalite.
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Hugh Potter

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Post Tue Oct 07, 2008 3:52 pm

JonM01 wrote:3M is very nice, but at nearly £25 a metre it ought to be!

Allprint do Nikkalite.


yeah, for this purpose i'm not gonna be spending £25pm, thanks anyways though Jill / Shane.

have spoken to allprint, i've just emailed them to haggle the nikkalite price a bit,


I have to admit, i just find this all a little disappointing, a simple newslettter would have enabled me to at least test the films properly,
Last edited by Hugh Potter on Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Jon Marshall

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Post Tue Oct 07, 2008 4:53 pm

The 5R is japanese apparently.
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Cameron Steer

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Post Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:35 am

Hi All,

The reason we have changed are as follows,

both new reflectives are just that "New" you wont have tried them before and are not the brittle type you mention.

5400 is a 3 year reflective with a clear cast coating to give it strength and stop it from having the brittle effect.
5600 is a 7 year film with a graphic adhesive for vehicle graphics that can be removed the same way as plotter vinyl.EC104 certified for vehicle application, also with a clear cast coating.
Both are suitable for both thermal printing (edge) and low/solvent inkjet, the clear cast coating gives it a flexability that the Nikalite doesnt have.

Hope this makes the descision clearer , we can still supply Nikalite if required but Oralite gives us and our customers more potential uses and opportunities.
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Shane Drew

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Post Wed Oct 08, 2008 12:26 pm

Cameron Steer wrote:Hi All,

The reason we have changed are as follows,

both new reflectives are just that "New" you wont have tried them before and are not the brittle type you mention.

5400 is a 3 year reflective with a clear cast coating to give it strength and stop it from having the brittle effect.
5600 is a 7 year film with a graphic adhesive for vehicle graphics that can be removed the same way as plotter vinyl.EC104 certified for vehicle application, also with a clear cast coating.
Both are suitable for both thermal printing (edge) and low/solvent inkjet, the clear cast coating gives it a flexability that the Nikalite doesnt have.

Hope this makes the descision clearer , we can still supply Nikalite if required but Oralite gives us and our customers more potential uses and opportunities.



hhhmmm very interesting..... thanks for the heads up cameron. Had a visit from oracal today, wished I had known this then :P
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alan flynn

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Post Thu Oct 09, 2008 12:26 am

hello all
i have had 2 years of hell with reflective, front film coming of,flaking, and before this about 23 years of no trouble,
if anyone wants some pictures of whats been happening i can email you,
bit please be very careful i am having to go back to jobs i have done over 2 years and sort them out which has really taken most if not all my profit away if you take into account removal time and glue remover,
i will let you have more info when i have had less to drink,
regards
alan flynn
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Hugh Potter

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Post Thu Oct 09, 2008 8:06 am

Hi Alan,

which reflective were you using?

never had any problems to be honest,
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Shane Drew

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Post Thu Oct 09, 2008 1:35 pm

never had an issue in 15 years either Alan. Interested to know the brand.

If it was an issue with the product, I'd be fronting up to the manufacturer for reimbursement
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Stuart Taylor

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Post Thu Oct 09, 2008 3:46 pm

Cameron Steer wrote:Hi All,

The reason we have changed are as follows,

both new reflectives are just that "New" you wont have tried them before and are not the brittle type you mention.

5400 is a 3 year reflective with a clear cast coating to give it strength and stop it from having the brittle effect.
5600 is a 7 year film with a graphic adhesive for vehicle graphics that can be removed the same way as plotter vinyl.EC104 certified for vehicle application, also with a clear cast coating.
Both are suitable for both thermal printing (edge) and low/solvent inkjet, the clear cast coating gives it a flexability that the Nikalite doesnt have.

Hope this makes the descision clearer , we can still supply Nikalite if required but Oralite gives us and our customers more potential uses and opportunities.


Cameron,

Could you clarify what you mean by EC104 certified ? ECE 104 is a complex regulation regarding Retro-reflective markings for HGV but most people look at this for guidance on "conspicuity" markings i.e. stripes and boxes to sides and rear. For this part of ECE 104 there are minimum requirements for the reflectivity levels eg 450 cd/m2 for White, 300 cd/m2 for Yellow. Normally these levels are only possible with micro prismatic reflective products. I can only find a US tech bulletin for Oralite 5600 which classed it as "engineering grade" which normally means glass beaded technology. Glass beaded reflective products don't normally achieve the same level of reflectivity, for example a white glass beaded product would typically achieve approx 70 cd/m2 which is a long way off the minimum requirements of ECE 104.

Could you confirm if 5600 is micro prismatic or glass beaded ? If Oralite 5600 is glass beaded are you saying it meets the requirements for ECE 104 with regard to "conspicuity" and the required levels of reflectivity ? You did state that these were "new" products so perhaps the US bulletin is out of date and the product has been improved ??

There are other elements of ECE 104 that refer to "graphics" that do allow/require lower levels of reflectivity than the conspicuity striping/boxes defining the shape/length/size of the vehicle so you may be referring to this area but would appreciate it if you could clarify this.
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Post Thu Oct 09, 2008 3:57 pm

2 years of hell with reflective

I wonder if it was Avery?
Love....Jill
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Hugh Potter

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Post Fri Oct 10, 2008 2:57 pm

i think the nikkalite is a little more versatile when it comes to lifting and relaying after a few minutes, it is still prone to delaminating though, then again, what reflective will ever be reposionable?

Hugh
Last edited by Hugh Potter on Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:45 am, edited 2 times in total.
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alan flynn

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Post Sat Oct 11, 2008 6:18 pm

hello all

i have been using reflective for over 20 years and no problems, the last 2 have really damage my name and my business, so much so i am having to re invent myself, i will dig some photos out and see if i can post them, i don't want anyone going through want i am going through,
i have changed to oracal and so far so good, yes it conforms really well, but does mark if you have to move it,
once i have had some more input from my supplier i will put up what make they are , sad thing is it is a least 2 makes

regards
alan flynn
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James Martin

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Post Tue Apr 28, 2009 10:10 am

Hi found this thread after a search for oralite 5400 and was looking for anyones thoughts regarding this film.

Its for chevron stripes along the skirting of a small van.

customer obviously wants them to stand out.

Nikkalite??

Orafol??

3m 680cr??

5r flexlite??

Wish I was going to sign and digital.
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Hugh Potter

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Post Tue Apr 28, 2009 2:56 pm

James Martin wrote:Hi found this thread after a search for oralite 5400 and was looking for anyones thoughts regarding this film.

Its for chevron stripes along the skirting of a small van.

customer obviously wants them to stand out.

Nikkalite??

Orafol??

3m 680cr??

5r flexlite??

Wish I was going to sign and digital.


HI James,

the orafol is good, not suitable for everything i do, but works well for the vehicles etc,


Hugh
Last edited by Hugh Potter on Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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James Martin

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Post Wed Apr 29, 2009 1:34 pm

Tks Hugh

Do you use the 5400 or 5600?
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Hugh Potter

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Post Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:02 pm

there's some great colours, and it can be printed on i believe but, they don't / didn't stock it, which meant we'd need to buy a whole roll. shame as there's some interesting colours in the rather large range!

Hugh

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