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Xpres... I am not happy!

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Hugh Potter

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Post Wed Jan 09, 2008 3:13 pm

Xpres... I am not happy!

possibly the most unhelpful company i've ever dealt with.
Last edited by Hugh Potter on Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:02 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Hugh Potter

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Post Wed Jan 09, 2008 3:21 pm

ok ok, i'm happy now...

Yvonne just called as i clicked 'submit'!!

very nice person, sorted me out ok.

Hugh
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Hugh Potter

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Post Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:34 am

i'll be phoning graphytyp in a moment, and hoping that their reflective thermo film isn't too expensive.

last week i wanted some thermo reflective, i took your advice and called xpres and hexis, hexis were £30 a mtr :o and xpres only £9pm, you can imagine who got the order. or who i was trying to give the order.

last wednesday, the 9th.....

i phoned xpres nice helpful and polite sales lady, got the prices etc, said that's all, my card No is..... buuuuuut, being a new customer they wouldn't simply allow me to make a purchase over the phone, oh no, nothing so simple, i had to email them, then my email would be passed to sales, who would then call me. why the have a 'sales' line i don't know. anyway, due to mix-ups, it was friday before i was able to order it due to 'email issues'.

long story short, it arrived yesterday with the other stuff i ordered, box was slightly damaged (ie a hand sized hole (chat.) ) but all was there. except some details on the press time etc :-?

now, one thing i thought was strange. i ordered 3m of thermo reflective, and that's exactly what i got, 3 little 1m rolls, all rolled against the memory, trying to hold it down was like trying to give a give medicine to a child or pet when they don't want it.

anyway, i leave it down the workshop for a couple of hours, and carry on building the new store shed, when i'd cleaned up i figured i'd roll out the little 1m pieces and try to get rid of the memory. somehow this stuff had come from one damaged roll, i know this because it's one pressure mark, and repeats every few inches, like a milky white dot,

sooo, i email last night, explaining about the damaged pieces, and that i'd like it changed please, and also i want 3m, no 3x 1m, it's not only wasteful, but more awkward to store. i get a call from selina this morning, now she's a lovely girl, no problems with her, BUT, nope... hang on.... BUT (a big but), the company Xpres are just THE most anal company,

1, i need new for tomorrow, if i'm to do what i had planned, any other company i deal with will send out the new first, then worry about the damaged, not xpres, they want me to pay again and they refund when the return is accepted.

2, so i ask for a 3m length. the warehouse won't cut anything less than 5m, "that defies logic" says I, "it's quicker to cut one 3m length than measure 3x 1m". she says "oh it's because of the warehouse...blah blah", i stopped listening then, and repeated my point about it being easier to cut one piece instead of three,

to be honest, i don't think she understood why they did it, and was trying to cover, as one does, can hardly blame her, but. is this the way for a company to treat customers ???

i'm just going to email back now, this week i've just spent out over £1400 from my account on new equipment etc, i've left myself about £120 in the account, until i get a couple of jobs done on friday and monday, why the hell should i pay them again and leave myself short? what if i need to grab some more materials elsewhere for another job? that might not be their problem, but i'm not the one who cut 3x 1m from the same damaged roll and sent it out to a new customer.


can't get my head around it.
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Hugh Potter

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Post Wed Jan 16, 2008 11:38 am

here's the sheets, i'm not being thick, am I? looks damaged to me!
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thermo2(1).JPG
thermo1(1).JPG
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John Wilson

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Post Wed Jan 16, 2008 5:32 pm

Yeah it looks damaged to me mate, like it's been rolled through a sprocket thing :-?
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Hugh Potter

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Post Wed Jan 16, 2008 6:00 pm

cheers John.

had enough of Xpres now, i emailed them earlier,

copy...

HI ******,

Thank you for your call this morning, please find attached the two photo's i've taken of the damaged film. .

I'm sorry if i sounded off with you this morning, while i'm aware that none of this is your fault, i just can't get my head around why the warehouse will cut three 1m pieces from one clearly damaged roll and send out like this to a new customer, it's not a good start for what should hopefully be a long working relationship. I still can't even understand why they'd cut three pieces instead of one anyway, it's more labour time for them, and means more waste for me when i get to an unusable end, instead of just a few inches waste on each end of 3m, i'll now have a few inches waste, 6x over, it's beyond my comprehension why Xpres feel this is the way to do it.

Re paying for more until you receive the damaged return. while i feel i shouldn't have to explain, i will anyway. i have just spent out around £1400 this past 7 days on new equipment, with more to go by the weekend, as a result, i'll most likely not be taking a wage for the next few weeks, so i certainly can't justify paying for a replacement of damaged goods which should have been sent in perfect condition.

Really this is down to quality control on Xpres' part, the three sheets are obviously all from the same roll as the damage is the same on all three, ie, one knock to the outside of the roll has transfered through may layers, the two shown are the worst, the 3rd has only light marks, not milky areas, but i'm still concerned it may effect the end finish, The last thing i want to do is cause a fuss, we're both new to each other, and i hate making a troublesome impression of myself, but i need to stand firm on this, i wanted to get using it today / tomorrow ready for a customer on friday.

If Xpres can send me one 3m length (ie, not three x 1m) that isn't damaged, and protected a little better to prevent it potentially getting damaged during transit (there was nothing protecting the three rolls of film in the parcel i received), and so i receive it tomorrow, then i see no reason why we can't have a long, happy, business relationship. If Xpres really has to stick to it's company policy, and insist i can only have three 1m pieces / i have to pay up front, then please just make arrangements to collect the reflective and refund my card.

regards,
Hugh Potter.


got a call back at lunchtime telling me they can't alter company policy, i will have to pay for more, then wait for the refund. i said i wasn't happy and will get back to them later.

they were going to pay the carrier though..... that's good of them!

anyways, have spoken to Graphityp, much better idea of what i was ordering (like the fact there are two types of reflective for different materials, for one!), and got it at just about the same price.

so, Big up to Graphityp, and a big thumbs down to Xpres who shall receive no further orders from me.
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Neil Speirs

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Post Wed Jan 16, 2008 6:06 pm

yip, definitely damaged :(

Shame you've had this bad experience with them, I've used them for over 3 years now and never had a problem (touch wood) but have only ever purchased the 5m rolls
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John Childs

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Post Wed Jan 16, 2008 6:08 pm

Hugh Potter wrote:they can't alter company policy.

I hate that. Those words are guaranteed to put my back up.

If the policy is wrong then it SHOULD be changed. And quickly.

Sod 'em. Find another supplier.
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Neil Speirs

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Post Wed Jan 16, 2008 6:13 pm

I don't think they cut there vinyl to order, probably just pulled of the shelf's in pre-cut lengths.

You want 6m so you get 5m roll + 1m cut



Hugh Potter wrote:cheers John.

had enough of Xpres now, i emailed them earlier,

copy...

HI ******,

Thank you for your call this morning, please find attached the two photo's i've taken of the damaged film. .

I'm sorry if i sounded off with you this morning, while i'm aware that none of this is your fault, i just can't get my head around why the warehouse will cut three 1m pieces from one clearly damaged roll and send out like this to a new customer, it's not a good start for what should hopefully be a long working relationship. I still can't even understand why they'd cut three pieces instead of one anyway, it's more labour time for them, and means more waste for me when i get to an unusable end, instead of just a few inches waste on each end of 3m, i'll now have a few inches waste, 6x over, it's beyond my comprehension why Xpres feel this is the way to do it.

Re paying for more until you receive the damaged return. while i feel i shouldn't have to explain, i will anyway. i have just spent out around £1400 this past 7 days on new equipment, with more to go by the weekend, as a result, i'll most likely not be taking a wage for the next few weeks, so i certainly can't justify paying for a replacement of damaged goods which should have been sent in perfect condition.

Really this is down to quality control on Xpres' part, the three sheets are obviously all from the same roll as the damage is the same on all three, ie, one knock to the outside of the roll has transfered through may layers, the two shown are the worst, the 3rd has only light marks, not milky areas, but i'm still concerned it may effect the end finish, The last thing i want to do is cause a fuss, we're both new to each other, and i hate making a troublesome impression of myself, but i need to stand firm on this, i wanted to get using it today / tomorrow ready for a customer on friday.

If Xpres can send me one 3m length (ie, not three x 1m) that isn't damaged, and protected a little better to prevent it potentially getting damaged during transit (there was nothing protecting the three rolls of film in the parcel i received), and so i receive it tomorrow, then i see no reason why we can't have a long, happy, business relationship. If Xpres really has to stick to it's company policy, and insist i can only have three 1m pieces / i have to pay up front, then please just make arrangements to collect the reflective and refund my card.

regards,
Hugh Potter.


got a call back at lunchtime telling me they can't alter company policy, i will have to pay for more, then wait for the refund. i said i wasn't happy and will get back to them later.

they were going to pay the carrier though..... that's good of them!

anyways, have spoken to Graphityp, much better idea of what i was ordering (like the fact there are two types of reflective for different materials, for one!), and got it at just about the same price.

so, Big up to Graphityp, and a big thumbs down to Xpres who shall receive no further orders from me.
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Hugh Potter

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Post Wed Jan 16, 2008 6:19 pm

Neil Speirs wrote:yip, definitely damaged :(

Shame you've had this bad experience with them, I've used them for over 3 years now and never had a problem (touch wood) but have only ever purchased the 5m rolls


it is a shame, because i know they're a good company, if they'd told me it was only a 5m roll, i'd've bought 5m, but i assumed it would be 10 or more, i asked if it was sold by the metre, or if they had a min qty, they said no... by the metre rates, so i asked for a few mtrs to try,

didn't expect to get literally 3x 1m sheets cut from the same roll... duh!! apparently the warehouse have to do that... why?? :o


John,
dead right, company policy should have some flexibility, i could imagine that if i was a cash customer, who'd walked through the door, expecting more without returning the damaged first, that it would make sense. but they have my card details, my delivery and invoice address (1in the same) and know who i am, so why the worry over £30 replacement?

i hate to cut off my nose to spite my face, they supply alot of what i think i want to do, but, what if it was a £600 loss or damage? there's no way i could pay that again while they figure out what happened. it's not the fact i couldn't afford to buy more, it's the principle of it. so stuff em, i went to grafityp, if xpres had soted it, i woulda bought some more stuff to try/play with, instead, grafityp got the order.

Neil Speirs wrote:I don't think they cut there vinyl to order, probably just pulled of the shelf's in pre-cut lengths.

You want 6m so you get 5m roll + 1m cut





never thought of it like that, still a damned stoopid idea, open sheets are prone to contamination, rolls are not!
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Steve Underhill

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Post Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:49 pm

Next time I speak to Xpres I will reccomend they read these boards, on another note, I rang them as my cutter seemed to be cutting at excessive force even with a new blade and cutting strip.
Their tech guy Rob phoned Roland on monday, today it was fixed with a new cutting mechanism.
I seem to be treated differently than some other people with complaints or returns, mind you I have a credit account with them, if something needs replacing I just say go ahead send it and when you pick the other stuff up credit me.
They cant really stitch me up that way as I just wouldnt pay them till it was sorted.
a couple of years ago before I had the credit account I had some damaged film, (only one ever) and they wanted me to pay upfront for damaged stuff, I said no way, we laid out over two and a half thousand pounds with you and you now want me to pay for an extra 2 metres of stuff I already had?
In the end I ended up speaking to the MD or someone more important and they agreed to send it without me having to pay.
I think in almost every company it depends on who you speak to, I had 4 damaged place mats too and they sent out an extra 7 to cover it.
They're not always bad, but can be stubborn.
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Robert Lambie

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Post Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:49 pm

i think its obvious the rolls/sheets are damaged. therefor they should at least "try" and be a bit more helpful. bend the "company policy" a bit to accommodate a new customer? :-?
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Steve Underhill

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Post Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:52 pm

Talking of Grafityp....
Nigel if youre reading this I never recieved the samples of the different flex you were sending.
IE I have bought 2 types off you, one that wont stick to the backing, and one that sticks to the backing so well, I thought it was superglued on.
I am after the Grafityp equivalent of Xpres superflex, IE slightly sticky and easy to weed.
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Nigel Pugh

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Post Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:14 pm

DOH :o

Yep Steve I'm reading this, tbh I did pass it on to Sue but shame on me I never followed it up, I will tomorrow for sure, I hate having loose ends they always seem to come back to haunt you on Friday afternoons.

Hugh I guess most company policies are the same, charge again and refund when the goods return, ours is just like that, a little insurance I guess, but as they say discretion is the better part of valor and it does depend who you talk to, I know, I have made a fair few rods for my own back, but at the end of the day the customer butters my bread most of time and deserves to be treated as a friend rather than a customer.

Ok I have glorified myself enough lol


Regards
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Post Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:27 pm

Hugh, as Steve points out a credit account is always a good thing, you are then in control of the situation regarding faulty goods etc,
I can appreciate why most companies operate the pay again policy, until the goods are returned from cash customers.

As a comparison, if you bought a new laptop online and it arrived damaged, i doubt if you would get a replacement without returning the item.

Anyway seems like Nigel got you sorted

Peter
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Steve Underhill

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Post Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:27 pm

Seeing as you're in a good mood Nigel can I have a sample of the laser pro explorer 100 watt too?
:lol1:
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Nigel Pugh

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Post Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:31 pm

Blimey Steve what are you after shooting down...........Saturn.

P.S. I'm never in a good mood, just polite :lol1:
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Steve Underhill

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Post Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:41 pm

Actually I would like to speak to you about a laser engraver maybe a 40 watt, I have heard a mixed bag of comments about different brands, epilog, trotech, laserpro etc, Sue has my shop number if you wouldnt mind calling me when you get a chance
Cheers
Steve

Next time I speak to xpres Hugh I will mention this is the 2nd member of the UKSG I have reccomended to them and they have had hassle, they werent very helpful to Pete Mindham either.

Looks like Grafityp should get into the sublimation imprintables market, then nobody would need to use xpres anyway. :wink:
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Nigel Pugh

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Post Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:52 pm

Get yourself a cuppa at 10am tomorrow Steve then I will call :)
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Steve Underhill

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Post Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:53 pm

I have one about every 15 minutes so wont be a problem
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Ian Bingham

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Post Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:10 pm

Just a little word of praise for xpress, ive used them for the last 8 years and had no real problems, they've been flexible on price when ive bought quantity, been very helpful in buying kustom kit direct from them. They have very good products, never had a comeback from customers on anything we have supplied. went down for a training day years ago when the new place opened, had a great time
Ian
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Steve Underhill

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Post Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:13 pm

As Ive said in other posts, they always looked after me, apart form a couple of niggles they have been fine.
They could do with expanding their sublimation blanks range though.
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Hugh Potter

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Post Wed Jan 16, 2008 11:49 pm

HI Ian,

i'm sure under normal circumstances, that they're a great company. it's just that in this situation it's ridiculous to not go a little out of their way to send some more reflective down, i'm happy with the other items i purchased, it's just the reflective issue, and their attitude toward sorting it out.

i sell a lot of stuff online, if i send something that doesn't arrive, or arrived damaged, then i send it again, regardless of whether or not i've got it covered, i make enough to cover that.

i don;t even know my customers 95% of the time, so why Xpres have a problem, when they have all my details, when i've sent them photographic proof, of damaged material, which should have never been sent out like this, i just don't know.

i find it pretty sad, customer service is everything to me, should i not expect it from my suppliers?
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Ian Bingham

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Post Thu Jan 17, 2008 12:17 am

Sadly Hugh I have to agree with you, Bad show with them this time, the customer is king and its us who pay the wages, so there should be less red tape and more human input, which is possible even with large companies.
Ian
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Phill Fenton

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Post Thu Jan 17, 2008 1:09 am

Here Hugh.... you've got a sticky out left ear.. :-?
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Steve Underhill

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Post Thu Jan 17, 2008 1:27 am

Lucky his surname isnt JEER!

Or Jass for that matter





:rofl:
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Hugh Potter

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Post Thu Jan 17, 2008 8:50 am

Steve Underhill wrote:Lucky his surname isnt JEER!

Or Jass for that matter





:rofl:


close, the mrs calls me Mungous. :shoot3: (cheesy)
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Andrew Bennett

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Post Thu Jan 17, 2008 1:44 pm

Hugh,
Write to them.

Tell them that you are aware of their company policy but the goods that they have sold you are "Not Fit For Purpose".

Remind them that by law, they cannot refuse you the right to a full refund or a full replacement with goods that are fit for purpose.

Explain further that should they refuse to refund you or replace the goods that have been damaged you reserve the right to forward a copy of your complaint to their, and your own, local Trading Standards Office for advice and you will ask them (TS) to proceed to law should that become the only avenue left open to you to right the wrong that has been done to you by them in this issue.
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Ade Brown

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Post Thu Jan 17, 2008 2:22 pm

Hi Hugh

give Heather Robertson at Target a call - I like their heat pressed vinyls

They have a great product now call Premium and it will go onto all nylons polyesters etc..
They also do films for print both light and dark!!!

Tel +44 (0)1376 326351

Fax +44 (0)1376 345876

(mod-edit) please read board rules

Write to

Target Transfers Ltd
Anglia Way
Braintree
Essex
CM7 3RG
U.K.
Last edited by Ade Brown on Thu Jan 17, 2008 4:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Steve Underhill

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Post Thu Jan 17, 2008 2:39 pm

Its also £6 a metre unlike Xpres at £4.65
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Chris Wool

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Post Thu Jan 17, 2008 2:48 pm

Its also £6 a metre unlike Xpres at £4.65


not if you explain the error of there ways :wink:

chris
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Neil Speirs

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Post Thu Jan 17, 2008 4:27 pm

What your saying is 100% right for retail sales but I think its a different ball game for B2B unfortunately :(


Andrew Bennett wrote:Hugh,
Write to them.

Tell them that you are aware of their company policy but the goods that they have sold you are "Not Fit For Purpose".

Remind them that by law, they cannot refuse you the right to a full refund or a full replacement with goods that are fit for purpose.

Explain further that should they refuse to refund you or replace the goods that have been damaged you reserve the right to forward a copy of your complaint to their, and your own, local Trading Standards Office for advice and you will ask them (TS) to proceed to law should that become the only avenue left open to you to right the wrong that has been done to you by them in this issue.
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Andrew Bennett

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Post Thu Jan 17, 2008 4:38 pm

Neil Speirs wrote:What your saying is 100% right for retail sales but I think its a different ball game for B2B unfortunately :(



A quick chat with TS will reveal another way perhaps, I wasnt aware that TSoG Act was retail only.

Learning all the time :D
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Steve Underhill

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Post Thu Jan 17, 2008 4:55 pm

Xpres is retail anyway, we pay the same prices give or take as Joe public making stuff in his kitchen.
which is what I always had an issue with, so trading standards may be interested.
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Neil Speirs

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Post Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:07 pm

I think the problem for TS is, we are purchasing the goods for resale & with not being the end user (joe public) they can't or won't get involved.....I think :-?
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John Childs

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Post Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:45 pm

The public are idiots and need their hands holding and to be protected from (usually their own) mistakes.

As business people we are expected to know better, and to stand on our own feet.
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Hugh Potter

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Post Thu Jan 17, 2008 6:24 pm

well it's sorted now, of sorts. they'll sent a retun note to either me or the courier (i can't recall which) and it'll be picked up, and refunded. apparently it'll usually be picked up within a week :-? then my refund.

after this afternoons nightmare, don't really care much! :-?

thanks for all the advice etc though.
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Peter Mindham

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Post Thu Jan 17, 2008 6:29 pm

When I placed my first order with xpress it was the same as you Hugh. Since then, not problems at all. I do resent the £8.00 charge for next day delivery though. Daylight robbery. But they have never let me down in over a year now.

Would prefer to use Grafityp if I could get the stuff to cut in my machine.

Peter
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Steve Underhill

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Post Thu Jan 17, 2008 6:41 pm

Its the same stuff as I spoke with Nigel about this morning, the Grafityp equivalent of Xpres extra flex, thicker vinyl and not sticky at all.
Hopefully he is sourcing some superflex equivalent for us as we speak. :lol1:
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Ian Bingham

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Post Thu Jan 17, 2008 6:45 pm

Steve

Ive got to ask, What is that in your hand?

Ian

Sorry if its of topic
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Robert Lambie

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Post Thu Jan 17, 2008 6:52 pm

Ian Bingham wrote:Steve

Ive got to ask, What is that in your hand?

Ian


i recon its the worlds smallest vinyl card tube core. :lol1:
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Hugh Potter

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Post Thu Jan 17, 2008 6:52 pm

Steve Underhill wrote:Its the same stuff as I spoke with Nigel about this morning, the Grafityp equivalent of Xpres extra flex, thicker vinyl and not sticky at all.
Hopefully he is sourcing some superflex equivalent for us as we speak. :lol1:


received my order from grafityp today, all thee and not damaged!

i have no idea what is what though, i've ordered two reflectives, two black and two white, but they have no markings, so no id!

the stuff looks so thin too, like it doesn't have a carrier, gonna have a play next week when the printer is here too (morro hopefully), but forsee an awful lot of waste!!
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Neil Speirs

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Post Thu Jan 17, 2008 6:56 pm

I meant to ask earlier to :)

I reckon it's his new diamond encrusted, 18ct gold weeder :wink:


Ian Bingham wrote:Steve
Ive got to ask, What is that in your hand?

Ian

Sorry if its of topic
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Steve Underhill

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Post Thu Jan 17, 2008 9:30 pm

Its a banger, a firework.
If you can imagine a small car bomb, one you can fit into a smarties tube, thats about how loud they are, you just have to make sure you throw them far enough away from yourself by the time they explode, it'd take your head off.
I saw a spanish kid put one in a wheelie bin, it blew it apart like when you split a plastic cup. :o
Theyre good fun though, 18 euros for 20.
Only available when fiestas are on in Benidorm.
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Post Thu Jan 17, 2008 9:39 pm

Steve hope no officials are watching, them bangers are now illegal here,
You are a big kid at heart though,
Peter
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Post Thu Jan 17, 2008 9:45 pm

Thats great Peter thanks for the tip, :P

however that photo was taken in my Spanish hotel room during the festival at Benidorm last year.
Those bangers have never been seen in the UK anyway, they are massive honestly, they are just tubes full of gunpowder, nothing like you used to get here.

Look a bit closer you can see a badly build cinder block apartment building behind me, the likes of which are also banned in the UK
LOL :lol1:
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Steve Underhill

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Post Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:05 pm

a close up in a different pic
Image
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Andrew Bennett

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Post Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:13 pm

Funny end on that spliff :D
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Post Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:15 pm

are you sure you arnt injecting your head Steve? :D

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Post Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:20 pm

With an all inclusive 2 week holiday including beer for 300 quid I wasn't sure of very much that holiday.
One thing was sure of though, is you don't light them and keep them anywhere near your head, we did however find a group of spanish teenagers letting smaller quieter ones off underneath our window, so I unleashed a few of my own to dispel them.
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Post Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:24 pm

Be honest Steve, your a British mercenary working in the middle east :o

Steve Underhill wrote:a close up in a different pic
Image
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Steve Underhill

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Post Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:28 pm

I do have a picture of a helicopter on my T shirt, and there is a rough looking Beirut type building behind me, but sorry, I really was in mainland Spain.
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Neil Speirs

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Post Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:32 pm

No problem Steve,

I hear what your saying, Hush Hush 'n' all that :shutup:
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Post Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:38 pm

Would it be better if I just go along with it? :P
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Post Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:42 pm

Best to :shoot3: :peek:
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Hugh Potter

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Post Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:11 pm

here we go again!!!

Dear Hugh,

I have tested the thermo reflective that you have sent back to us. You say on the returns note that it has milky spots and it is also curled up at the edges. The reason for the curling is the pink protective layer on the back. Thermo reflective is naturally a curly material but when you have removed the pink protective backing it is a lot less curly.

After pressing we found no fault with the material. The milky spots that you said that were on the roll are just in the plastic on the top as soon as it has been pressed there are no signs of any spots.



As there are no faults with the material, I can either send it back to you or I can credit you for it but there is a re-stocking charge of 20% which option would you prefer?
Many thanks



my reply....

Thanks for the email.



With respect, I would prefer no re-stocking charge. It is the first time i've ever ordered the reflective material, and as such, i think the re-stocking charge is ~just a shade below extremely~ unfair. I appreciate you've tested the material, but really... that's a luxury i couldn't afford. How can I be expected to use a material, which looks damaged, when i have no way of knowing how the material works until i use it. I never cut or used the order because i was not to know that the actual reflective was not damaged. If i'd used it and it had been marked when on the garment, i'm sure i'd've been told i shouldnt have used it??.



I sent clear photo's of the damage / pressure marks on the material. Maybe someone could've said it was ok from that? personally i wouldn't send out vinyl with marks on it, it will stick just the same, but isn't right. I don't recall saying the edges were all curled up, that in itself isn't a problem, but had it beenbetter protected in the packing, ie not allowed to float around in the box, then it may not have happened. Yes, i understand it's a curly material.



Other than the clear damage / marking to what i now know to be the protective layer, i was also very disappointed that when i ordered 3m of material, it came in 3x 1m lengths. I'm glad i don't need to order 20m of rope!



perhaps, rather than credit my card, you could send me some 'promo' t-shirts, as many as i can have for the refund price? 1/2 white, 1/2 black, and we'll call it quits.



My whole experience of Xpres has been alot less than i was led to believe it could be. In fact, the problems i have had from the word go, have surprised a lot of my sign making colleagues, who have mostly had only praise for Xpres. Shame really.



please let me know if the t-shirt idea is ok. and what Xpres intend to do with regards the re-stocking charge.



regards.

Hugh
[/i]
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Post Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:38 pm

Ring Rob, in technical.
Show him the pictures and ask if he thinks its ok.
He has been nothing but help to me when the cutter started playing up, he may be able to persuade the fools on the customer service desk that you are right.
I have to admit though, if the backing sheet is creased it never makes a difference to the pressed vinyl. the force flattens it out, you can even spray transfer remover spray onto superflex, have it all go bubbly and come off and still repress it perfectly, I know Ive done it, its quite resilient stuff.
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Ian Bingham

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Post Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:39 pm

Not being funny but is it worth the effort over 3 mts of vinyl?
Did they not send you an instuction sheet with the product, usually send them out as a matter of course, this would of said about removing the pink layer?
Ian
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Hugh Potter

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Post Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:50 pm

to be honest Ian, No, It's not worth it over £30 quids worth of vinyl, but, it is worth it over the principle of it all.

Steve,
i'll see what they say tomorrow, thing is, as i mentioned in the email to them, I've not used the material before, i wasn't to know that it was only the protective sheet that was damaged, indeed, i didn't even know it had a protective sheet on it! i just think they could've handle this whole thing better. nothing has been explained until 'after' something becomes apparent, they just assume i know everything.

i'm still very miffed at the fact that they sent it in 3 pieces! why??? makes no sense what so ever.

i've just figured out now, there's three types of supplier... foamex, dibond and 20mm perspex.

foamex.... will bend over backward for you,
dibond..... pretty flexible, and a joy to use.
20mm perspex.... would sooner break then bend a bit.

:D
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Post Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:54 pm

Oh you forgot the last one,
Kerbstone.
Thats O2 when you want to continue a half price line rental contract youve had for 4 years, so inflexible you give 33 quid a month to 3 instead of them, even though I could have got the same deal for 30 with O2 :lol1:

Ian is right about the material sheets, they normally come with the material.
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Hugh Potter

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Post Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:57 pm

i did have an info pack which arrived seperately to the order. so i didn't have chance to read through it when the reflective turned up shortly after. i guess the info is in there. partially my fault in that respect, but it was damaged externally, if i'd waited til i was ready to use it, it would've been too late to return it as faulty.

HUgh
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Ian Bingham

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Post Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:00 pm

No when you get the media they always send an A4 sheet with instructions on it in the same box, if they didn't you may have some come back
Ian, Mind you if they did well.....
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Hugh Potter

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Post Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:05 pm

no info sheets in the box, none what so ever.

box contents,

1 garment vinyl remover spray
1 weed tool,
1 box release paper,
3 x rolls of 1m each, thermo reflective,
1 lump of folded cardboard (packing?)
1 big space for stuff to rattle about in.

Hugh
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Ian Bingham

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Post Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:12 pm

This looks like one that slipped through, The more you use of xpress the better they get, I would say there was no sheet in the box and see what they say but dont give up on them as they have very good products
Ian
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Post Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:28 pm

Agree with Ian mate,
but am trying to get Nigel to sort out their flex at Grafityp, to see if they actually do superflex equivalent as at least they can be contacted here easily enough
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Post Tue Jan 22, 2008 11:12 pm

Ian,
I understand that they have some great products, the last thing i want to do is cut off my nose to spite my face, but at every turn, there's a problem. all i want is some decent service, i'm not expecting something for nothing, just some flexibility in their approach to me.

if i had a list of other places infront of me now, i wouldn't think twice of going elsewhere, and will if i get the chance, Xpres could have made this easy, they didn't.

sorry to sound so aggrieved, and ott about 'only' £30, but jeez, i just need 5 mins slack!
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Post Tue Jan 22, 2008 11:19 pm

I had a problem with them at first Hugh, it was sorted after a while having a go at people on the phone, then the rep from kustom kit who wasnt even from xpres but got me a discount on flex anyway, keep at them, once they have you on an account you seem to get treated better.
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Post Wed Jan 23, 2008 1:27 pm

i have bought a fair bit of garmnet vinyl from xpres now, and also my cutter. I have never received any instructions of info in any of the boxes i have ever received either. They must not like us southerners eh hugh, lol.

but I must say i have been very happy with the products themselves, although i do agree that selling in 1m increments is a bit silly. i have tried to buy bigger rolls now to make it more sensible, but if you dont need a lot it works out un-economical to use 3 pieces.
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Post Wed Jan 23, 2008 3:32 pm

Sorry to hear all your hassle Hugh, we could all do without this type of thing to enable us to just get on and earn an income.

I have received wrong items from Europoint and I get charged for them until they are returned, thing is they will not collect them from me, I have to return them myself which is 100miles and 4hrs+ round trip. So I end up out of pocket for some time before I make the trip to the big smoke.

Also if a sheet of Skybond/Forrex arrives damaged I have to accept it and just use what I can, if I complain they will just stop supplying me(so they told me).

This is something I put up with as they are generally a great supplier and great prices.

Dave
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Post Wed Jan 23, 2008 4:13 pm

DaveBruce wrote:Also if a sheet of Skybond/Forrex arrives damaged I have to accept it and just use what I can, if I complain they will just stop supplying me(so they told me).


:o Bloody Hell that's a bit rough Dave, talk about got you by the short and curlies.
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Post Wed Jan 23, 2008 5:28 pm

DaveBruce wrote:Sorry to hear all your hassle Hugh, we could all do without this type of thing to enable us to just get on and earn an income.

I have received wrong items from Europoint and I get charged for them until they are returned, thing is they will not collect them from me, I have to return them myself which is 100miles and 4hrs+ round trip. So I end up out of pocket for some time before I make the trip to the big smoke.

Also if a sheet of Skybond/Forrex arrives damaged I have to accept it and just use what I can, if I complain they will just stop supplying me(so they told me).

This is something I put up with as they are generally a great supplier and great prices.

Dave


Just goes to show how different people view / experience different companies. i base my how a supplier should be opinion on just that supplier! Europoint (london office) have always been more than helpful, i'd almost go as far as to say they bend over backwards!

if i've needed stuff collecting because it was delivered wrong (i think only one occasion), they've collected next day when they drop off the correct stuff, even if only 10m of vinyl. it is their own van though (paperCo), so that may explain the difference. who knows???!!


edit.... hmmm,,, dunno when to shut up mode....

thing with me is, i've always dealt with people, either through previous employment (be it yard manager, driver, engineer, shop manager), selling parts at the Drag race track, or over the past 3yrs self employed. Ii've dealt with an awful lot of people, probably well into 4 or 5 figures if i had to guess, but.... i never forget the face of someone who was either rude, who owed me (or who i worked for) money or was sandbagging when it came to paying, a troublemaker, or simply someone i took a dislike too. and likewise i remember those who always pay on the dot, who tipped, who were helpful, and those who were simply polite beyond the usual.

Thankfuly the 'less than good' are the minority

those who i remember for good things, will always get a call if i need something, or if i can offer them something. those who i have had less than good experience with, will usually be the last i'll contact. I don't expect my customers to treat me any different. customer service / manners, and i guess, money, make the world go round a whole lot smoother.
Last edited by Hugh Potter on Wed Jan 23, 2008 5:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Saph-D

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Post Wed Jan 23, 2008 5:29 pm

Just read through all the above and can only say

omg

And to have someone say complain and we won't supply you anymore is just well, shocking.


Saph :o
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Post Wed Jan 23, 2008 5:57 pm

First thing I would do if I was told "complain and we dont supply you" would be to point them in the direction of this forum, and ask who one of Amaris main customer bases are.
Then see if their managing director feels the same way as the jumped up little A$$ at the depot.
I bet not.
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Post Wed Jan 23, 2008 6:58 pm

I suspect you are right Hugh, as they use another courier to get materials to me, so who knows where the blame lies with damages.

It is not that I was told not to complain, the words were "if sheets are going to arrive damaged then we will just stop supplying you" this was after the third sheet had arrived damaged but my first phone call to complain.

I would love to get all my sheets cut to the sign size before delivery but whenever I have done that they arrived damaged so I had to order again. Since then I just order a sheet and cut off the damaged part, full sheet signs are a bit of a nightmare, you can guarantee at least the corners will be bent.

Four sheets of Forrex arrived today all four have a corner broken off (hot)

Cheers

Dave
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Post Wed Jan 23, 2008 7:09 pm

I had a sheet of cast acrylic with one of the offcuts scratched from Amari, I phoned up said this wasnt good enough, I had £8 knocked off the next sheet, and that came wrapped up in corrugated cardboard.
I think it all depends on what branch you use, it certainly doesnt seem to have a company policy of being unhelpful, mind you my stuff comes on Amaris own flatbed truck.
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Post Wed Jan 23, 2008 8:46 pm

Hugh, I'm surprised they do not deliver to you in their own trucks as they have a depot in Southampton and more than likely they deliver to you (this is AMARI and EUROPOINT), I am lucky as all my orders from Europoint are delivered at about 8am the morning after, even if I order at 4:30 in the afternoon, and it comes on their own truck.

I would look in to it more as I can't believe they would be so petty

cheers

Warren
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Post Wed Jan 23, 2008 8:50 pm

Its Dave they don't deliver to, :lol1:
Hugh gets damaged vinyl, Dave gets damaged forex.

Also Hugh, why do you not like to have 1m rolls?
Unless you have massive designs to cut I have never found it a problem.
I squeeze every square inch out of mine, if I have a bit left I just turn it length ways in the cutter and use it that way, any available space on the flex is used to cut logos and test that I will use.
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Hugh Potter

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Post Wed Jan 23, 2008 10:54 pm

HI Warren,
europoint deliver to PaperCo in shoreham, which is down the road from me, like you, they always deliver very early!! great service.

1m rolls.... at £10 a mtr, thats £1 per 100mm, wasting probably a quids worth, not much, but three rolls is three quid, not to mention three rolls of material to store, not one. Ok, so i'm being picky, but if i order 3m, i wasna 3m length, or to be told otherwise. if they'd said i need 5m to have a whole length, then i'd've bought 5m, i still would've returned it if it was marked as it was!
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Post Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:03 pm

thats a bit harsh.. a supplier normally has to keep a reputation with their customers and put it as a loss. They gain in the long run anyway with turnover.

Just for the record, although doesn't effect us, we cannot order from Europoint as they are not in our area. However they have said Wednesdays in the South West if needs be. Boss of our local europoint did come to see us but just isn't the demand to send a truck down so would make losses supplying us.
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Post Thu Jan 24, 2008 4:29 pm

Just rang xpres as I had a deal on some easy cut 380mm at £2 a metre
I asked for 5 metres of superflex in one roll and got it.
Maybe they just hate you Hugh?

Sorry Nigel, too good a deal not to take,
Thats just done my hen night shirts in flouro pink for less than half of the usual cost.
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Post Thu Jan 24, 2008 6:02 pm

Hi Dave ,

I dont know who you spoke to Dave but this is the situation,its not as bad as its been painted here i hope ,and i do appreciate the last bit :0)
You are in Oban , we dont go there on our own vans , its a 3 hour trip each way at least with a 18 tonne vehicle, vinyl we send by carrier and we pay the carriage , Skybond/Forex we send by carrier and we pay the carriage and its not cheap.

We hate saying no to customers but carriers are a liability , we are not spoilt for choice with carriers going to Oban to choose from , if the carrier continually damages the material we would have no choice but to appologise and say we will have to stop supplying in this area as we simply cant guarantee getting the goods to you in good condition. no reflection on you.

We have recently improved our wrapping so not only is it in cardboard outers but should also have protective sleeves for the corners, i will get some fragile tape ordered and use for carriers to see if that helps any.
I will speak to the saw operators and advise them if possible to put an extra bit of packing at the corners for you.



Now the rest of you please put the knives away and take down those wanted posters !!!!
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Dave Bruce

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Post Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:52 pm

Sorry Cameron, I was out doing a Rally car so missed your call.

I am very happy with Europoint but just pointing out some facts as a comparison to Hughs situation. We have discussed this before on the phone, but we need to speak again :wink:

I appreciate there is a cost to you guys and I don't get charged carriage on anything I order which is fantastic for my one man band situation.

Try and catch me tomorrow.

Dave
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Post Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:05 pm

The way I see it if a company is advertising a service, they should send the goods no matter where the customer is situated.
If your courier is constantly damaging goods, then swap to someone who doesnt, if you cant find a different one, start paying them for every item delivered UNdamaged, and knock off the damaged ones from your invoice.
I imagine with a contract Europoints size they will soon start looking after the stuff.
Alternatively do what I do,
Package it safely and securely, thus negating any damage in transit problems.
A little decent packaging costs a lot less than a new sheet of expensive material, If I had goods turn up with a single corner damaged I would expect it picked up and another sent by free carriage, If I could use it without the corner I would expect a discount.
Its all about customer service and if you dont provide it there are plenty of firms in the same game who will.
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Post Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:47 pm

Ah Steve, if only life were that simple.

I've got every sympathy with Cameron's position.

We have local customers who, although they send us a fair bit of business, overall are more trouble than they are worth, and are currently being shown the door.

It's easy for us, we just increase their prices, until either they become worth the hassle, or they bog off of their own accord.

Cameron, as part of a national company, with bosses to answer to, doesn't have that luxury and has to address the problem in a different way. If he can't offer the quality of service then his only option is to withdraw the service.

The fact that his head office advertises a service is neither here not there. Lot's of companies advertise credit cards on advantageous terms. Until you apply for one and find that they don't apply to you. No difference here.
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Post Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:57 pm

The real problem that Dave is having is that Parcel delivery services in the UK are a joke. Absolutely appalling. It's a rare occasion that I receive something from a courier service such as TNT that is not damaged. How they get away with it is beyond me. Companies like Europoint and Robert Horne employ their own delivery drivers and consequently the goods always arrive intact. But try getting anything fragile delivered by a third party is battering your head off a brick wall.

If my experience of companies like TNT is anything to go by - I'm amazed they are still in business :roll:
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Post Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:53 am

Apparently they sell lots of dynamite
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Hugh Potter

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Post Fri Jan 25, 2008 10:52 am

Phill wrote:The real problem that Dave is having is that Parcel delivery services in the UK are a joke. Absolutely appalling. It's a rare occasion that I receive something from a courier service such as TNT that is not damaged. How they get away with it is beyond me. Companies like Europoint and Robert Horne employ their own delivery drivers and consequently the goods always arrive intact. But try getting anything fragile delivered by a third party is battering your head off a brick wall.

If my experience of companies like TNT is anything to go by - I'm amazed they are still in business :roll:


I quite agree,

City link were the best / most reliable i found. that was, until they put a stoopid clause in a new contract (new owners) whereby you had to spend a minimum £50 each week, ie, if you only sent one parcel, it still cost you £50. i told em to stick that. i can understand it if they were going out of their way to collect, but i even saved them that bother as i would drop em off at the depot!

mad.
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Alan Drury

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Post Fri Jan 25, 2008 11:16 am

Couriers are the bane of my life too, I don't particularly blame the drivers I think it's the knuckle dragging half wits who are in the hubs.
Alan D

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