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cannot get vinyl to stay in recesses of transit vans?

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Karl Birch

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Post Mon Jul 23, 2007 2:52 pm

cannot get vinyl to stay in recesses of transit vans?

I currently am having great problems with a partial wrap on an old shape transit. I am using the oracal system from europoint, but the vinyl will not stay in the recesses. I have thoroughly cleaned the vehicle within an inch of its life with iso alcohol and thoroughly reheated the vinyl in place. Any ideas would be welcome and much appreciated.
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Jason Xuereb

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Post Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:07 pm

Is the surface dry? Has the alcohol evaporated? How long before it pops back out?

Are you using a cast vinyl? If so which one? Is it laminated?

How deep are the recesses? Are you stretching the vinyl right over the recess then trying to push it in? How big is the recess then?

Sorry about all the questions they'll help fix the problem your facing.
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Karl Birch

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Post Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:13 pm

I am using the Oracal 3951 rapid air with matched cast laminate. The panels where iso cleaned then dried with fresh paper towel. The recess is about 50mm high and 30mm deep and it starts to come back out after 5mins. The vinyl is being laid over the high points then heated into the recess. Thanks, Dan.
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Jason Xuereb

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Post Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:25 pm

When you post heat do you know what temperature your heating to? I'm pretty sure its meant to be to 90 degrees. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.
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Karl Birch

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Post Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:30 pm

It started to pull out at the bottom while i was heating in the top. The problem had started before I had chance to post heat.
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Jason Xuereb

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Post Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:33 pm

Are you using enough heat to get the vinyl in there? Have you allowed the air to escape? Pin the vinyl where its already laid down?

Maybe your forcing the air into a pocket then when you go to work on the top the air is forcing the vinyl off the car?
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Karl Birch

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Post Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:39 pm

The air is escaping as the recess is not completely covered.
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Jason Xuereb

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Post Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:41 pm

No idea mate. If your using enough pressure and enough heat it should stay down. That isn't an overly large recess.
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Karl Birch

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Post Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:49 pm

Ok thanks for your help. When removing the vinyl its seems that the glue is staying on the van in areas where it has lifted!
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Stuart Whitehouse

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Post Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:09 pm

I've had a similar problem using the oracal. No major problems but recently took off a temporary part wrap on a lorry and it had done the same as you explain - the vinyl was just starting to lift out but the glue stayed in place on the vehicle, as though the glue had separated from the vinyl.

stuart
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Chris Wool

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Post Mon Jul 23, 2007 7:11 pm

possibly to hot - to mold the vinyl in then just enough heat 50 deg
then later 80 deg to loose the memory.
if i remembered correctly

i have had the glue come off and put it down to being to hot


chris
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Russell Spencer

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Post Tue Jul 24, 2007 10:43 am

If the adhesive is coming away from the vinyl then the pre-heat was too hot and it has delaminated.
It is better to use less heat on the pre-heat stage if you do not have a temp gun. Once it is applied to the vehicle the metal panels act like a big heat conductor and the heat time is not as critical.
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Karl Birch

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Post Wed Jul 25, 2007 12:00 pm

I have tried a section of the wrap again, it has lifted again. This time is has not left any glue behind. What the hell am I doing wrong?
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Stephen Ingham

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Post Wed Jul 25, 2007 12:17 pm

hi, just a thought..could you not ask your vinyl supplier?? surely they should be able to help

stephen
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Karl Birch

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Post Wed Jul 25, 2007 12:31 pm

I have done, not much help really.
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Nick Minall

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Post Wed Jul 25, 2007 12:33 pm

can you try some different vinyl? just for a test to see what happens?
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Post Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:38 pm

just asking, as you haven't said. and cant think of anything else.
are you doing it wet?

Peter
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Karl Birch

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Post Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:02 pm

Hi Nick. No I haven't tried another vinyl, I presumed Oracal was a good vinyl.

Peter, the application was done dry. A long shot but the van has just had a fresh respray, could this be the cause!!! Although it was cleaned thoroughly with iso prop.
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Post Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:10 pm

Paint can outgas for up to a week and sometimes longer, so yes it is a very distinct possibility.
Can you try the vynyl on another van that way you will know which is causing the problem.

Peter
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Robert Lambie

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Post Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:30 pm

on my holiday just now and had my 3rd pint at pool side so excuse brief reply... :-? :lol1:

if its pulling out before you even get it in place then your doing something wrong. if its not your application method its the surface you are applying too.

clean your veicle down with soap and water...
degrease the vehicle with isopropylene alcohol or industrial meths...
appl in a moderately warm room. and proceed to apply your vinyl...
once you have your vinyl molded into the recessed area and the panel has cooled down, you need to reheat the panel up to around 140-180 degrees "as stipulated by oracal" using a laser surface temperature gauge.

allot of the time the problem with old style transits are "these" particular recessed areas. "sharp drops both sides of recesses" i have heard of issues with all major brands of v-wrap on these vehicles. 9-10 times it comes down to how it is being applied.
from memory avery stipulate dropping into the recesses from the left to right hand side sharp to the bottom, or vice versa... working the base in last. im not keen on doing-working like this so use my own... "too long winded to explain" :-?
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Jon Marshall

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Post Wed Jul 25, 2007 8:43 pm

The fresh paint could be a problem.

Could you get the prints liquid laminated instead?
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Karl Birch

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Post Thu Jul 26, 2007 9:08 am

Thanks for your suggestions everyone. Robert, thanks for your reply as I can imagine the last thing you want to think about on holiday it vehicle wrapping, I did all the things you mention as well as the application technique (applying to the sides of the recess before the middle).

Jonm, Unfortunately I don't know of anyone in the area with a liquid lam, I was wondering why you suggest this?

Peter, I am going to try the vinyl on another van. If I can find an old shape transit that hasn't rusted to dust.

Believe it or not this is a police van. It used to be a speed camera van, now they have 'pimped' it to take to car shows. It is having the old style martini stripes up the sides.
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Ryan Larsen

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Post Wed Aug 01, 2007 1:02 am

design
try using 3M's tapeprimer, I wrap goalie helmets for hockey and I have had the same issues. It comes in a 236mL container around $20 US I think?, but it is good stuff
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George Kern

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Post Wed Aug 01, 2007 8:49 am

Sounds like the paint needs to cure. We have had problems with RVs that came from the paint booth to us and even after a week we had issues with the vinyl adhesive separating from the vinyl itself. Who knows what type of catalyst and how much was added to the paint to speed up curing times too, they might not have known this would be decaled so quickly so they didn't bother adding more.

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