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what sort of printer for vinyl

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Post Sat Jun 02, 2007 6:08 pm

what sort of printer for vinyl

Hi could any one tell me what sort of printer i need for doing short runs of vinyl decals
thanks Terry
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Post Sat Jun 02, 2007 6:13 pm

how short is short? 10-20, 100-upwards?
what will be the majority of the prints/stickers for?
what size will 9/10 be approx?
where do you see yourself with ythis machine in a year to two years time?

sorry for all the questions but i think they are important before giving you a proper reply. :D
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Post Sat Jun 02, 2007 6:29 pm

Hi Rob
I have got a D60 cutter and a D88 sub printer but have been asked to make some small stickers to put on motorbikes and bike parts before they go out just for advertising their web address, about 500 a month
about 3" long. I think it would be a lot easy er and quicker to print them, Also thinking about no smoking stickers etc.
Thanks Terry
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Post Sat Jun 02, 2007 7:01 pm

Terry, if you only have one customer for a small quantity of stickers a month then at the moment you would be better off buying them in from someone who is already set up to print. You will not find a suitable machine unless you have a few thousand pounds to spare.
As for No Smoking stickers, if you are thinking about this because of changes to the law then you will probably make very little money from producing them as businesses can get them for free. The Government have already sent them out to a lot of businesses and if you haven't got any or you need some more they are quite easy to get for free,
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Post Sat Jun 02, 2007 7:10 pm

Hi
not too bothered about the smoking signs to be honest but the small decals yes the customer with the bike shop would not be the only one, i have had quite a lot of inquiry's along smiler lines, sheets of A4 or A3 just peel n stick.
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Post Sat Jun 02, 2007 7:14 pm

Then you would really need a print and cut machine like the versacam for this sort of work as I say it is a major investment for any business but all I have seem that have got them have done well.
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Post Sat Jun 02, 2007 7:17 pm

Can i not just get a printer and use reg marks for cutting with my D60 with optical eye.
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Post Sat Jun 02, 2007 7:18 pm

ELTEL666 wrote:Hi Rob
I have got a D60 cutter and a D88 sub printer but have been asked to make some small stickers to put on motorbikes and bike parts before they go out just for advertising their web address, about 500 a month
about 3" long. I think it would be a lot easy er and quicker to print them, Also thinking about no smoking stickers etc.
Thanks Terry


ok, ide say do NOT go looking for a machine for this sort of scale of printing. let it happen, sort the customer and add him to your list of print customers until you have a bigger customer base that you can afford to take on the likes of a second user or new versacamm/cadet/lancer/jv3 etc
for now i wouldn't go that far....

here is why...

I'm guessing on your sizes here, but at a guess. "you said" 3 inches long so i guess approx 1.5inches high?
this being the case you will get approx 338 of these stickers from a square metre of vinyl.
a square metre of vinyl, "printed and contour cut" you are talking approx £40 a square metre from another sign firm at trade. this being the case you have not yet invested in any machinery but you will be getting each sticker "to you" at about 12p each for 338. which i would be looking for a minimum of 99p each in bulk form.
so for your £40 outlay your profit would be approx £288 without really any input other than sealing the deal.
however, this all may sound very good and dandy but i have no doubt your customer will try and screw you down. it is up to you to keep things at a reasonable price/profit.


hope i got the calculations right, ive had a few sherbits :lol1: :lol1: :lol1:
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Post Sat Jun 02, 2007 7:23 pm

Terry sorry I forgot your plotter had an optical registration system, in that case then you could look at a JV3 which is just a printer, they get very good write ups as well so can't go far wrong with one of them
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Post Sat Jun 02, 2007 7:27 pm

Thanks Rob that's one idea
Thanks Martin were could i get one of them printers and any idea on price.
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Post Sat Jun 02, 2007 7:31 pm

Terry, Karl might be along a bit latter and he has not long bought one so may be able to help a bit more. As for cost I think they are about £7000 but not sure if that includes RIP which you would also need.
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Post Sat Jun 02, 2007 7:31 pm

OK thanks
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Post Sat Jun 02, 2007 7:33 pm

with regards bike parts... easy on parts that get to extreme temperatures as the vinyl may catch fire or shrivel up
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Post Sat Jun 02, 2007 7:35 pm

martin is correct with what he is saying with regards to you contour cutting etc... as you already have the kit... two soruces i know of for jv3 are graphityp, speak to nigel on machine sales... graphityp are also official UKSG suppliers so a good deal maybe arranged. another source is silverskies, speak to Noel...
best of luck. :D
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Post Sat Jun 02, 2007 7:35 pm

Good point but i think they just stick them on the mud guards
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Post Sat Jun 02, 2007 8:20 pm

Terry, sorry if it wasn't the sort of answer you were looking for, I just have the feeling you thought you might be able to get a printer a lot cheaper.
I would look at finding someone who does print who is reliable and offers a good trade price, that way you can build the digital side of your business without a huge outlay and still make a profit from it. As time goes buy and this side of your business grows you will reach a point where it is seriously worth your while getting your own machine rather than getting someone else to print it for you.

If you are going to look at second user machines be very careful as they can be very expensive to put right when they go wrong, a second user machine from a printer supplier may be an option as people quite often start off with a smallish machine and then upgrade to a larger machine as their business grows, you may be able to pick up a good second user machine this way where the machine is working great but the owner has just out grown it.
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Post Sun Jun 03, 2007 12:38 am

For a JV3, you're looking at about £6500ish for the JV3 75, and about
£12,500 for the JV3 130. This is standalone price, not including cutter.
You would get a better deal with a bundled cutter.

It would be worth shopping around, as the JV3 is about to be superceded
by the JV33. Also, second user machines are worth looking at. Last time
I looked, there was a 75" JV3 on the discount shop for £4995. If it's in
good nick, then it would be a VERY good entry level machine.

Also, you would need to allow for a RIP, as these prices do not usually
include one. However, some dealers, but certainly not all, are including
the Mimaki RIP, in the price. If you can get a deal which includes the Mimaki RIP, I would certainly look at it if funds are limited.

Make sure you have a demo though, and absolutely make sure that thereare profiles available for all the major media suppliers for
this RIP, not just media from whoever you purchase the machine, otherwise it could end up being a false economy. BTW, I think the Mimaki
RIP is called Rasterlink Pro.

You may be better off buying a small VersaCamm initially, as this will
print and kiss cut all in one machine. I seem to remember a member
selling one recently for about £4995 + VAT.

So to sum it up after the big long waffle, I think £5000 minimum.


Cheers,
Jamie.
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Post Sun Jun 03, 2007 9:53 am

hello terry
the summa dc4sx is well worth a look at, really good for motorbike and car graphics, and the fact you can print white, silver and gold and many other spot colours means there is a lot you can do with this machine you cant do with a ink jet machine, and the dc4sx retails at £7995, a lot of machine for the money
regards
alan flynn
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Post Sun Jun 03, 2007 8:59 pm

sorry forgot to say, the dc4 machines are print and cut, and changes ribons itself, unlike the edge, so just send the job and let the machine get on with it and go grab your self a beer,
regards
alan flynn
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Post Sun Jun 03, 2007 9:07 pm

Hi All
Just been looking at a hp design jet 90 and 130, like the ones used by liquid-lens for doming. They seem like a good starting point for me.
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Post Mon Jun 04, 2007 10:34 pm

Guys,

Whay are you all talking about buying them for £7500 etc etc , you can lease a VersaCamm for around £160 a month , the profit on even that small job Rob costed out at the top of the page would pay for it , the rest is a bonus, the bigger machine would cost around £260 a month , keep your cash in the bank.
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Post Mon Jun 04, 2007 11:31 pm

hello all,

terry if you are looking at doming that is were the dc4sx is really good, you only nne to look at summas badge on the machine the mirror silver and blue with doming look great,
you could contact summa direct and ask (oh i swore !) for some samples, they are well worth a look at
regards
alan flynn
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Post Mon Jun 04, 2007 11:51 pm

Depends what you want to do with it Terry, its a dye based printer looking at it so you would not really be able to do stuff for outdoor use as inks will fade quickly in direct sunlight

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