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Spandex UV Flatbed vs Uniform Grenadier UV

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David Rowland

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Post Tue May 08, 2007 5:16 pm

Spandex UV Flatbed vs Uniform Grenadier UV

Well signuk was inspirational, now come back and need to start looking into these machines seriously, I would like to hear from people using these machines and how they are getting on.

In a nutshell Spandex is the cheaper machine but doesn't seem to carry as good spec as the Genadier or even the Agfa or the Mimaki flatbeds.

Prices are keen from both suppliers but now need to find out a few things.

1: Can I replace my JV3 with one of these machines? I see the solara lacking in DPI but the Grenadier might be okay here.

2: Also the ink seems a little matt, does this mean that vinyl on the solara is limited to certain markets? I understand you cannot laminate the print due to its roughness on the Solara, can someone tell me if the Grenadier UV prints can be laminated or would look okay on Gloss vinyl?

3: If Vinyl is okay, can conformable be used in vehicle wrapping market ?

I need to justify the upgrade a bit more from a JV3 or whether I need to keep it. Any thoughts will be welcome

Dave
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Robert Lambie

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Post Tue May 08, 2007 9:47 pm

:evil: just typed you a big reply dave and while doing so i had email notice to activate a uksb account, as i did it, it used my already open web page to activate. in doing so wiped my LONG reply to this post... :-? :roll: will catch it again later :-?
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Stepen Wood

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Post Wed May 09, 2007 9:54 am

Dave

Like you went to sign UK to look whether I could replace my Soljet with a UV printer.

I had a demo on both Solara, Grenadier UV(Teckwin), Very different machines one mechanical the other used electronic sensors for pretty much everything. The grenadier has the white option, but was extremely slow when printing with white, it did not seem cost effective

Q1. I would not be too concerned with the DPI. I believe the dropsize is more important. The agfa has a 14 picolitre, the small text 4pt is excellent The colourspan 25 picolitres the text is only readable at 8pt. I am awaiting dropsize and samples for the Solara and Grenadier.

Q2. I spoke to my print engineer who was demonstrating the Zund UV at the show he suggested looking at the liquid laminators. (More expense) Or even a printer which has an extra head for this purpose. I believe the GCC from Grafityp has this option.

Q3
Spandex were offering the Mutoh valuejet as a package for companies wanting to produce vehicle wraps. The UV ink does not conform and will just crack.

In the end walked away from SignUK feeling a little disappointed. When I was replacing my Encad 600 1/2 sq metre per hour. I was demonstrated the Soljet and was wowed by its speed, ability to print on more substrates without the need for lamination. Watching the speed of the smaller UV's was similar to watching my Encad again.

I am having a Demo on the Agfa, OCE and the colourspan 72uvx, although these are quite above our budget, but I do not believe I can justify spending £27 to £40k on a printer that does not print as well or as quick as the one it is replacing.

I will report back, on demos

Cheers Stephen
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sthomas

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Post Fri May 11, 2007 2:46 pm

Dave

You are right, nearly all UV printers will crack when using them to vehicle wrap due to the low flexibility of the inks. This is why Spandex where offering a Mutoh Value jet with the UV printer.

You can Laminate the Spandex UV print with Liquid laminate if you wish , but the whole reason for UV printing is that you shouldn't have to .

I would keep your JV3 at the moment as no UV printer will replace it for Vehicle wrapping and look at a entry level UV printer to give you the flexibility to print directly on to rigid .

Stuart
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Robert Lambie

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Post Fri May 11, 2007 6:16 pm

no disrespect Stuart
but would it not be more attractive just to sell the flat bed on its own based on how much cheaper it is in comparison to most if not all other flat beds at signuk?
if the machines output was on par with most others it would have cleaned up at the show due to the low price tag?
i don't say this meaning to flame your post in anyway... i say it simply because that was my thoughts at the show because i too am interested in a UV flatbed and did look at a few on show. one being the Solara.
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David Rowland

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Post Fri May 11, 2007 6:42 pm

thanks for the comments...
we still looking at all this, now got Spandex reviewing our files...

I just looked thru image reports magazine and still a few more to look at, like the Acuity HD 2504 from Fuji, the Zunds, Oce Arizona 250 GT, EFI/VuFlex QS. Although I suspect out of price range but need to look at them as well really.
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Cameron Steer

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Post Fri May 11, 2007 6:54 pm

Hi Guys,

When looking at the top line price please also look at the price per litre of the Ink , Sericol also recommend a primer on certain substrates with the Solara which can bring the ink costs up to £250 a litre !!! UV does go twice as far as Solvent but even so this is high.(In my opinion).
Did anyone look at the Rasterprinter UV Flatbed at the show ?

Regards
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Martin Pearson

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Post Fri May 11, 2007 10:40 pm

I would think these printers were well out of reach of the small sign business for the time being then, if they aren't really suitable for vehicle wraps because of inks cracking then I would think that would also apply to a lot of other applications like labels/stickers, magnetics. In fact are they really suited to printing on to vinyl at all or should they really be used for printing direct to ridged substrates. Anyone with a small sign business that wanted to get into print would still be better looking at a solvent printer for versatility from what I can see.

Is that just about right or have I got it completely wrong as usual :lol1:
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David Rowland

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Post Sun May 13, 2007 10:52 pm

So anyone got the B&P Grenadier UV?

This Techwin, do they make Uniforms other printers?
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Stepen Wood

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Post Wed May 16, 2007 9:27 am

Dave Rowland wrote:This Techwin, do they make Uniforms other printers?


A lot of the printers that are sold in the UK are rebranded Far east machines

Uniform printers
Grenadier UV - Teckwin
Commander - Neoltjet
Cheiftain - Dilli Precision - Korean (now badged up as an AGFA)

The RasterPrinters UV and the Dupont Chromaprint are originally made by Flora of China.

The Oce and Acuity are in fact the same machine.

Cheers Stephen
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Mike Rawlings

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Post Wed May 16, 2007 1:02 pm

I was looking into a flat bed printer a while ago and located some people who had already bought one. I sent them a few jobs and asked them to run it through their printer. I have to be honest and say that what I got back from the 2 (unnamed signage companies) was far far far from what I had seen at last years Sign UK. The quality was poor, lots of banding present.

I wont put down anyones printer here, based on what other users have produced. However, I would strongly suggest that the one of best ways to find out what a machine is like day to day is to talk to the people who have one. Get them to run a few jobs through it. When I did speak to one of the signage companies using this printer, I found they were having a whole host of problems.

For the sake of a phone call and a few 'throwaway' jobs... I think its worth doing.
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sthomas

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Post Thu May 17, 2007 10:59 am

Hi Rob

Thanks for your comments and no it didn't in flame me, Spandex was offering the Solara without the Valuejet at the Show, Guess people didn't see the Price for it on its Own..

Output is on par with what is out there and the Solara stand up to most UV machines in it price zone .
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Stepen Wood

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Post Thu May 17, 2007 11:49 am

sthomas wrote:Hi Rob

Thanks for your comments and no it didn't in flame me, Spandex was offering the Solara without the Valuejet at the Show, Guess people didn't see the Price for it on its Own..

Output is on par with what is out there and the Solara stand up to most UV machines in it price zone .


That was a strange one in my view.

The offer was pay £34k(or something around that) for a Solara and get a free Valuejet.
Or Pay £27k for the Solara on its own.

So how is that a free value jet? it costs 7k surely.

It completely baffled me
Cheers Stephen
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noel silverskies

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Post Thu May 17, 2007 3:18 pm

It's horses for courses with all machines

As with all printers they all have different advantages & dis-advantages and the correct one for you depends on what your need

If you just what somthing cheap then the solaries is the clear winner

Not all UV inks are the same. Machines that put down low thickness of ink and print with small droplet size (mimaki £89K & anapurna M £70K) have very elastic properties and don't crack.

When choosing a flat bed the first questions you need to ask are to yourself what do I want it to do? What quality do I need it to print. Untill you know what you want how can anyone give you any meaningfull advice.

I sell flatbed printers for a living, different makes & models if you want my number ask rob, I can run you though all the pros & cons of each machine but only if you know what kinds of work you want to do (and don't say I want to do everything)

Noel

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