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EU and BS standards for fabrication of neon signs

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Post Thu Dec 12, 2002 10:06 am

EU and BS standards for fabrication of neon signs

Members may be interested to know that the latest edition of the EU standard for neon signs has just been published (EN 50107, Part 1, 2002).

It is important that signmakers understand the requirements in order to comply with their legal obligations under the Low Voltage Directive. There are important differences between this standard and the previous (1998) edition. I shall be discussing the differences in the January/Feburuary edition of Sign Directions, but in the meantime, if anyone wishes to talk about the standard (and others that effect the sign industry) I shall be happy to correspond with them.

Don Dunthorne
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Post Thu Dec 12, 2002 10:37 am

Hi Don! ... and welcome to the UKSignBoards (hot) (hot) (hot)

Great to see you here, bringing with you, as you do, a wealth of knowledge too...

This site is, without doubt, the most professional of all the UK signmakers site - and with your arrival it just got even better. :wink:

I look forward to reading you posts, views and comments - and don't forget to get stuck in regarding any topic right across the board.

As a newcomer here, you won't be able to post images until Rob (admin) gives you the nod - it stops 'fly-posters' that way' - but if you'd like to accompany your messages with images diagrams and the like then just ask Rob for the necessary permission.

Great to see you here...

more soon

mike
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Post Thu Dec 12, 2002 11:54 am

EU and BS standards

Mike,

Thanks for your welcome.

My background is in most aspects of signmaking but, in particular, tube manufacture and circuit information. Happy to discuss technicalities with anyone.

Don
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Post Thu Dec 12, 2002 12:20 pm

Hi Don and welcome to the UKSG, as Mike has already said its nice for someone of you experience to be associated with the site. I have spoken to you on a couple of occassions when the BSGA recommended it and found the info you provided very useful. I look forward to reading your posts as I know I can learn a lot from posts you make.
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Post Thu Dec 12, 2002 9:54 pm

Hi Don, and welcome

Have read some of your past articles in mags very informative and easy to understand

Keep it up as some sign mags send me to sleep in the bath as they are nearly all
adverts and need more content like yours.

Im off on one again Mike / Rob Ever thought of a Mag of your Own.

Regards...... FB
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Post Thu Dec 12, 2002 11:53 pm

Funny enough bob we both have! :lol:
To be honest though I think this site does just as good a job and it is better and quicker to update. :wink:

Welcome don. Good to see you visiting the site.
Like mike said. Don’t be afraid to get stuck in. we are a easy going lot and thrive on any extra new sign knowledge or poor heads will take... :wink:

A quick question while i’m here. Do you know of or offer neon-bending training. We looked into this a while back when we went to purchase a neon plant. But never pursued it due to the fact we couldn’t get anyone in Scotland that was available & qualified for the job. When looking into training courses we were told that I think the name was "mason lite" used to do a course and stopped?

Any info appreciated :wink:
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Post Fri Dec 13, 2002 12:02 am

Rob

sorry to but in here but as far as i know masonlite still do the courses, you can go down there, full accomodation while your taught, expensive though!!!!!!
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Post Fri Dec 13, 2002 4:39 pm

At the last count, Masonlite still do this course although I don't know how extensive it is these days. Certainly, when Peter Mason ran the company the courses were very comprehensive but he has long since retired. He and Olive are in their nineties now and still enjoy life - commuting between their houses in Chatham and in the Dordogne.

Check with Mike Hall at Masonlite - 01634 812751,
email mh@masonlite.com

I think that there are some colleges associated with the BSGA who run sign making courses, leading to NVQs. Unfortunately, I couldn't get hold of Peter Tipton this afternoon, but I will check and let you know.

Regards

Don Dunthorne
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Post Tue Dec 17, 2002 3:29 pm

More information on neon manufacture courses.

Peter Tipton of the BSGA says that the following college has been approved by them.

Sheffield College
Signwork Department
Castle Centre - Talbot
Norfolk Park Road
Sheffield
S2 3QE

Tel: 0114 272 3290, Fax: 0114 272 3302

email: davegreg@compuserve.com

BSGA approved centre accredited to deliver signmaking NVQs at levels 2 and 3.

Peter tells me that they have all the equipment necessary to provide practical instruction in tube manufacture. He is not sure on the current state of the courses. Best check with them directly.

Regards

don Dunthorne
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Post Tue Dec 17, 2002 5:40 pm

much appreciated don, thank you! :wink:
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Post Mon Jan 06, 2003 5:09 pm

This subject seems to have changed a bit since my first note on the new Standard (EN 50107-1, 2002). However, you might like to know that I am preparing notes on the changes to the requirements for the Jan/Feb issue of Sign Directions.

Regards

Don Dunthorne
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Post Sun Jan 19, 2003 8:12 pm

Hi Don
I've been reviewing profiles and came across yours and believe you can help me. I have to quote lumiens? :o for a sign, can you let me know how do I work this out?

thanks in advance

Mike George
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Post Tue Jan 21, 2003 5:52 pm

Dear Mike,

Many thanks for your query. Lumens are units of light produced by a light source such a fluorescent lamp.

For the purposes of planning regulations, local authorities are usually interested in the brightness (luminance) of the front face. this is usually quoted in terms of Candelas per square metre. The way you calculate this is as follows:

1) Add up the total light output (in lumens) produced by the lamps in the sign. The values for individual lamps may be obtained from any lamp catalogue. For example, a tyoical 4ft 36 W lamp will deliver around 2,800 lumens. Let us suppose that the total light output for the lamps in the sign is 'A' lumens.

2) Next calculate the total illuminated area of the front face of the sign. Let us suppose that this is 'B' squ metres.

3) Thus the the lumen density generated within the sign by the lamps are A/B lumens per square metre.

4) This is the lumen density within the sign. We next need to know how much gets out. Some will go straight out through the diffusing front face, some will be reflected from internal surfaces (done forget to paint them white) and some will have multiple reflections. this all boils down to a utilisation factor for the sign and this is determined empirically.

5) Local authorities are usuall interested in the brightness of the white parts of a front face since other colours are usuall less bright. In this short note, I cannot give a range of utilisation factors but typically 3 mm Opal 040 is about 50% and and 3mm Opal 050 is about 35%.

6) Let us assume that the above sign has a 3 mm Opal 050 front face. in this case the luminance (brightness) of that face will be 0.35 x A/B lumens per square metre.

7) Sign luminances are usually expressed in terms of Candelas per square metre. To convert the value in (6) into Candelas per square metre, the value is divided by 'pi' (3.14).

Hope this helps. Let me know if there are any specific queries.

Regards

Don Dunthorne

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