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will reflective vinyl on a boat stick alright?

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Rachel

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Post Tue Apr 05, 2005 1:44 pm

will reflective vinyl on a boat stick alright?

Hi all

I've had a customer in who's looking to apply reflective vinyl to the sides of a boat. He is concerned however that the adhesion on the back of reflective vinyl is not strong enough.

Would anyone be able to suggest an adhesive that could be applied to the back of the vinyl to increase its strength or a strong clear film that could be applied around the outside of the reflective vinyl which would act as a seal from the water and to stop the vinyl from peeling off?

Thanks

Rachel
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Andy Gorman

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Post Tue Apr 05, 2005 2:11 pm

Don't be mental! All the reflectives I've ever used stick like S*** to an army blanket. The only thing I don't know about is whether the surface of the boat is any different to any other finished surface, thereby requiring any special treatment. Another thing with reflective vinyl - because it is thicker than most other vinyls the edges can be a bit prone to damage as it tends to be a bit brittle. I have heard of people using clear UV lacquer on the edges. Try asking the supplier of the material you intend using what their thoughts are, as different makes have different specs.
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Post Tue Apr 05, 2005 4:18 pm

Just use a blocky-looking font, no thin serifs etc.
It will be just fine.
Love....Jill
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gazfoz

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Post Tue Apr 05, 2005 4:41 pm

I Agree.....sticks like :thumbup2:
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Martin Pearson

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Post Tue Apr 05, 2005 5:08 pm

Rachel, why does he think reflective won't stick properly? Is it because he has had it in the past and it didn't stick very well?

If this is the case then I would suspect that the problem was not with the vinyl but the fact that the surface it was applied to wasn't cleaned properly. As has already been said reflective sticks like ... to almost anything, try applying some and then removing it!!!

Don't know what the boats made of but if ordinary vinyl sticks then so should reflective.
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Rachel

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Post Tue Apr 05, 2005 6:12 pm

Thanks everyone for the replies

I agree about how sticky reflective is but didn't seem to convince the customer. Its just that as it doesn't appear as tacky to touch as other vinyls does he doubt it.

He's trying to patent an idea but has little insight into the material he's using i think. At the mo he's got a white reflective base, putting red reflective with lettering cut out on top and then a clear laminate over the top of it all. Because of the thickness the only thing I'm worried about is the corners peeling up and it looking shabby over a short period of time, I'm also worried how long periods of salt water may affect it??

I spoke to one of our suppliers that have agreed about the stickiness also but won't guarantee its effects mixed with salt water.
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Andrew Bennett

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Post Tue Apr 05, 2005 10:50 pm

You have a client that has come to you for an answer to a question the he is going to patent (!) (!) (!) (!)
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Post Tue Apr 05, 2005 11:15 pm

andy12 wrote:You have a client that has come to you for an answer to a question the he is going to patent (!) (!) (!) (!)



my thoughts exactly......he won't be able to patent anything if anyone has seen the idea!! :P


nik
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Rachel

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Post Wed Apr 06, 2005 10:31 am

He's apparently patented the idea but is looking for a sign company that would be able to produce them for him?
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johnboy

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Post Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:13 pm

Hi There,

We have done hundreds of boats. To put your mind at rest.....

If you are applying to a fiberglass hull:

Cleanliness is paramount. hull should be free of all bio gunk oil grease etc. with now 7 years experience we give it 3 separate cleans (based on the age old tradition overkill but avoiding having to go back and put it right!).

1). Pressure wash off bio gunk and mess.

2). Mixture of IMS (60%), Water (38%) Fairy Liquid (2%) through
washing off after wipe down with clear water.

3) Unleaded Petrol (Lighter Fluid) for final clean immediately before decal
application.

If Wood, Painted or Lacquered:

As above but check that you do not get a reaction from the Petrol very rare but I have known it.

Big G is absolutely right, to those of us who suffer the rigors of reflective daily, if standard vinyl sticks then reflective sticks like "S**t to an Army Blanket" to coin a phrase!

Your customers observation of Reflective material is in some ways right. Reflective to a human hand does feel less "sticky" however, when approaching plastics, fiberglass or the like in other words the products it was designed to stick to watch out and don't have any army blankets around!

So in a nut shell:

Vinyl & Reflective Vinyl have no problems on boats, however clean as much as you can and remember that you are dealing with micro organisms that lurk in the fissures in the fiberglass, wood etc.

Vinyl & Reflective Vinyl should not be submerged or exposed to high pressure water for at least two weeks after application. we recently lost a large (36') boat re-vinyl because he asked us to do it 8 days before the Easter break and said I want to use it at Easter.

If it is a "proper" speed boat be very careful going within 150mm of the water line as they can cause very high rip currents that will damage or strip Vinyl. In the past we have resulted to applying clear nail varnish to the leading edges of vinyl on these boats and asking the owner to sign a disclaimer.

SO:

CHECK THE HULL FOR MATERIAL.

CLEAN, CLEAN,CLEAN.

kEEP 150mm AWAY FROM WATER LINES ON POWER BOATS.

DRILL IT IN TO CUSTOMER THAT 14 DAYS BEFORE YOU CAN USE IT.

HEAT GUN/HAIRDRYER OFF THE VINYL BEFORE YOU LEAVE TO HELP ADHESIVE CURE.

CHARGE 50% MORE THAN NORMAL AS BOATS ARE NEVER AS EASY AS THEY SEEM!

Tally Ho!


Johnboy :cool:
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Shane Drew

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Post Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:28 pm

Rachel, I'd be screen printing red over the white reflective, then screen printing a clear UV top coat. Two layers of reflective, on a boat, with constant water, is not a good combination.

I agree that reflective sticks very well, and you have a few choices now. The Oracal reflective has one of the best adhesions in the market, and 3M have a removable one now, but I'd steer clear of that for this application.

Not sure I'd use petrol as a cleaning agent, probably because it is illegal here under work place health and safety rules, but I'd certainly use IPA or something similar.

3M claim their 7725 vinyl to be a marine grade, and in all the boats we have done, mostly to the water line, few have failed for any other reason that the staff not cleaning the boat correctly. I would be hesitannt to use avery tho, as I have had more failures with the avery brand, on boats, than any 3M products.

Cheers
Shane
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Rachel

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Post Fri Apr 08, 2005 3:51 pm

Dear johnboy and shane

Thank you ever so much for this very experienced opinion I am very grateful and I am sure that my customer will be also. Being relatively new to this business then I appreciate all the advice I can get - so thanks very much to everyone again for their help!


Rachel

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