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Adding a computer to an existing Network

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Post Fri Aug 19, 2005 11:23 am

Adding a computer to an existing Network

I am having a problem trying to get a new PC to connect to the small network I have at work.

I have a laptop running windows xp conected via a hub to two other PCs running windows 98.

I have added a new computer running windows XP. I went through the normal setup operation but the new PC is not communicating to any of the others.

Any help or advice would be welcome :D
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Post Fri Aug 19, 2005 11:32 am

Can't be of much help Phill, except to say check the cables.

I'm sure you have done that already but I once had a case where I had been sent a crossover cable instead of the normal type. Took me ages to find it.
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Post Fri Aug 19, 2005 11:48 am

Would you have someting like a 12 gauge, even a wee .410 perhaps?
That's what I'd use.

We spent a lot of money a couple of years ago networking 4 desktop PC's and 1 laptop. We brought the 'experts' in and they were (oh i swore !) on a bull.

Finally they managed to do it and as soon as you could say *Fark* there was a virus spread through them all and we were *farked* for quite a while.

We now operate with 2 or 3 of those wee usb thingies. No problem. Just takes a wee bit more time and effort.

So think carefully, do you really want a network? :)
Scoz
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Post Fri Aug 19, 2005 11:50 am

Phil
did you creat the floppy disc to set up the network i.e creat the set up disc it the old computer and then load it into the new this transfers addresses etc. Have you checked the file sharing protocals etc. Have you searched for the other computers by thier names in the search program on the new unit. i'm not an expert but had same prob not so long ago.

Kev
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Post Fri Aug 19, 2005 12:27 pm

ok, I suspect what is happening is that your normal windows 98 network is using NetBEUI and XP is generally using TCP/IP protocols.
In XP, they removed the support for the older networking properties that 98 used but they left the files on the XP cd...

Best thing to do is get the XP machine working with Netbeiu, it will then be visible with the 98 machines.

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;301041&sd=tech


Do that first and then we work on your computer name/workgroup settings (if needed)
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Post Fri Aug 19, 2005 2:50 pm

Phil,

I have a small wireless network so not sure if same applies via your hub, but I had a similar problem with non-recognition when tried to set up a new computer. Turned out that my Zone Alarm firewall was blocking it as a threat - and had to change settings on Zone Alarm to allow the new computer's IP address.

Martin
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Post Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:09 pm

Phill's disappeared.

Must have gone for a lie down! :D
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Post Fri Aug 19, 2005 4:47 pm

Thanks for the advice guys. I've checked the cables (by switching them around) and I went through the procedure of running the floppy disc created on each machine. It's still not working?

However, when I look at the network group (using the laptop - which is windows XP ) I can see all four computers. But when I double click on the new one I get a message saying "network path not found (yet it sees the computer and the name I have assigned to it).

Much later when looking at it again the new PC has dissapered and is no longer seen as part of the network group - this is without doing anything at all.

Marts - I have tried switching off the Firewall on the new machine but to no avail.

Dave - I will follow your link and report back :D
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Post Fri Aug 19, 2005 5:10 pm

Dave - I have followed your link but do not have a windows XP disc (I have system recovery discs instead and assume XP is there somewhere. I did a search on the hard drive of the new machine and found a file called netbeui.vxd (win98 se - described as virtual device driver) should I be using this file?

Meanwhile ....I'm away to lie down again :lol1:
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Post Fri Aug 19, 2005 5:12 pm

have you set the disks or dir to share .

chris
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Post Fri Aug 19, 2005 5:18 pm

Is you network setup with a dhcp server (maybe a router dialing out to the internet), this will assign ip addresses to the computers.
If not you may be using static IP or as Dave said the old computers are using Netbuei and XP generly uses tcp/ip.

Check for ip address clashes.
Try ping "ping computer_name" from the run menu.

Check that all the computers have the same workgroup (commonly missed) or they will be able to see each other but not access anything.

The other way is to use the XP machine as the new dhcp server and then setup the network from there using the floppy created on the xp machine. Don't do this if you already have a dhcp server though.
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Post Fri Aug 19, 2005 8:52 pm

Chris - I have set all the hard drives to share.

All the PCs have the same workgroup name (by default - MSHome)

I think NetBEUI may be the problem (before adding the new PC the old set-up allowed the XP machine to access the two windows 98 machines but the windows98 machines could not access each other or the XP machine). However, I would have thought that the two XP machines would still be able able to access each other even if that is the problem?

I'm thinking of un-installing the existing network and starting again (Is there a way to uninstal a network?)

My thoughts were to start again (after "uninstalling" the network?) get the two XP machines communicating first then add the windows 98 machines back to the network. Does this seem sensible? or should I be setting up the two XP machines to run NetBEUI before trying anything else? (Unfortunately I am not sure how to switch to NetBEUI even after following your link Dave?)
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Post Fri Aug 19, 2005 9:42 pm

bowber seems to know what he is talking about, why not install vnc and then he could set it up fot you?
peter
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Post Fri Aug 19, 2005 9:44 pm

What's VNC Peter?
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Post Fri Aug 19, 2005 9:46 pm

its a programme that lets someone access your computer as if it was theirs, so they can see whats wrong and change the settings remotely
Peter
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Post Fri Aug 19, 2005 9:48 pm

Hi I am back...
have a look in the file swapping area for a ZIP file..
you have to do that to get it to work

You have to copy the nbf.sys in the Windows\System32\Drivers folder
You have to copy the netnbf.inf to the windows\system32\inf folder

After that, go to network connection properties (eg. Local Area Connection). and the press "Install" , then press Protocol and then the one called NetBEUI should be in the list
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Post Fri Aug 19, 2005 9:49 pm

WinVNC... there is also one built into windows Peter.. anyway, he is alomst on his network.
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Post Fri Aug 19, 2005 9:51 pm

Wouldn't he have to be able to access all 4 computers in order to see what each is doing? To do that I would have to have them all hooked up simultaneously to the internet (and in order to hook them all up to the internet I would need to get my network running properly which is what I'm trying to do anyway?)
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Post Fri Aug 19, 2005 9:54 pm

Yes, you need a network connection in before he can connect, port forwarding etc. can be a pain if your on a network router. Also, having a network connection helps. :P
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Post Fri Aug 19, 2005 9:54 pm

he might be, but a long way round to do it.
trouble is most experts on comps dont see the obvious.
just my 2p
peter
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Post Fri Aug 19, 2005 9:57 pm

Thanks for all your suggestions guys.

Dave - I am at home now, but will download your file at work tomorrow and go through the procedure you have described in the file swapping forum. Many thanks for your help. I'll let you know how I get on. :D
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Post Fri Aug 19, 2005 9:58 pm

Thank Christ I run Macs.

Sorry Phill, you didn't need that!

Best of luck.
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Post Fri Aug 19, 2005 9:59 pm

ok.. i suspect i will be about somewhere... i have already seen one of the culprit computers in front of your Alison
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Post Sat Aug 20, 2005 3:45 pm

SUCCESS

Thanks Dave, I installed NetBEUI protocol on the two XP machines and they are now communicating with each other. I'm not quite there yet though.

The original XP machine (Laptop) can copy files to and from the windows 98 machines - but not vice versa.

The new XP machine can now access the original XP (laptop) and vice versa - but the new XP machine still cannot access the windows 98 machines (and they can't access it).

Printer sharing is another kettle of fish. My desktop printer is connected to one of the windows 98 machines and this is the only machine that can uses the printer but I want to be able to use this printer from the existing machine (98) and the two xp machines.

What do I do now? Do I start again re-installing the network. The network was set up using a network disk created by the laptop PC. If I want to control the network from the new XP machine do I need to install the network using a network disk created by this machine?

At least I can now file share the new PC to the laptop, and also to the older windows 98 machines (albeit in a round about way- by copying first to the laptop then onwards to the new PC) - but ideally I want every machine communicating directly with each other and in both directions.

Dave - you're a genius - thanks for all your help so far :appl: :praise1: :praise1: :praise1:

I'm away to lie down again :lol1:
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Post Sat Aug 20, 2005 5:33 pm

ok Phil,
NetBEUI is the old style connection methods that was used in many offices, TCP/IP has taken over.

I need to know this.... is all the computers connected to a Hub/Switch and then to a Internet Router (internet shared on all computers)? or is the internet (broadband) on one computer connected with a speedtouch-type modem?

another quick question...

Laptop XP can access Windows 98 1 & 2 machines OK

Windows 98 machines 1 & 2 Fail to connect to Laptop XP (This might file sharing security, has it connected before?)

The New XP machine cannot access Windows 98 machines... looks like you still have to install NetBEU on that Windows XP machine. The network Properties page should match the laptop, compare them.

Dave
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Post Sat Aug 20, 2005 5:58 pm

Personally I would get rid of the netbuei off all machines and use tcp/ip with the router being the dhcp server.

To do this you need to add the tcp/ip protocol to the 95 machine and then the rest should come together.

This will only work if you have a router, if the internet connection is shared off one of the computers then it gets a little tricker.

As Dave has said how is the network and internet setup?
I suspect that there isn't a router acting as a dhcp server as the 2 XP machines would have used it by default.

Anyway too many cooks and all that, Dave knows what he's talking about so I'll shut up :)

Steve
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Post Sat Aug 20, 2005 6:10 pm

Bowber, I would glady use TCP/IP and get address' from a DHCP service! But I am trying to keep it simple and NetBUEI requires virtually no setup. As far as I know there isn't a DHCP server (or a router acting as a DHCP server)

In my view, the best move with Windows 95/98 machines is to throw them in the bin! Yes, they support TCP/IP but without giving a training session in how to configure each machine with a manual IP then it is best that we get him working with something so he doesn't have to keep lieing down every 5 minutes pulling his hair out.
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Post Sat Aug 20, 2005 8:37 pm

DaveRowland wrote:ok Phil,
NetBEUI is the old style connection methods that was used in many offices, TCP/IP has taken over.

I need to know this.... is all the computers connected to a Hub/Switch and then to a Internet Router (internet shared on all computers)? or is the internet (broadband) on one computer connected with a speedtouch-type modem?

The internet connection is via one of the windows 98 computers - this is a dial up connection

another quick question...

Laptop XP can access Windows 98 1 & 2 machines OK
Yes

Windows 98 machines 1 & 2 Fail to connect to Laptop XP (This might file sharing security, has it connected before?)
No they haven't connected before - communication was always one way - the lap top to window 98 machines

The New XP machine cannot access Windows 98 machines... looks like you still have to install NetBEU on that Windows XP machine. The network Properties page should match the laptop, compare them.
I think I did this today - the XP machines only started communicating to each other after I installed NetBEU (Perhaps the laptop was already running NetBUI?)


Dave


To summarise - the four PCs are connected via a hub (Incidently - two of the hub connections light up amber - two of them are green (Is this significant)- prior to adding the new PC it used to show two green lights and one amber)

It's as if there are two seperate networks running - one being the xp machines to each other - the other being the laptop xp to the two windows 98 machine)
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Post Sat Aug 20, 2005 8:47 pm

Just a quick email
Amber likely indicates 10mbit/sec and Green is 100mbit/sec or it could be duplex connections.
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Post Sat Aug 20, 2005 9:27 pm

rightsigns wrote:SUCCESS

Thanks Dave, I installed NetBEUI protocol on the two XP machines and they are now communicating with each other. I'm not quite there yet though.

The original XP machine (Laptop) can copy files to and from the windows 98 machines - but not vice versa.

The new XP machine can now access the original XP (laptop) and vice versa - but the new XP machine still cannot access the windows 98 machines (and they can't access it).

Printer sharing is another kettle of fish. My desktop printer is connected to one of the windows 98 machines and this is the only machine that can uses the printer but I want to be able to use this printer from the existing machine (98) and the two xp machines.

Ok, printers drivers are different in Windows 98 and XP, they use two different designs. So, the best thing to do is to Plug the printer into each computer and install the Printer on each machine (you might find XP is automatic when you plug in the USB or Parallel cable). This is a good shortcut of getting the driver working. (Or you could go Control Panel/Add Printer and I suspose and just make it up where it is connected)

Plug the printer back into where it is to live and on the Windows 98 machine "Share the printer", this will allow the other computers to see it.

On a XP machine use "My Network Places" and you will see the computer and then when u look at the computer you will see the Printer.. Double click the printer and it should install.

On 98, use "Network Neighbour hood" and use the same process.


What do I do now? Do I start again re-installing the network. The network was set up using a network disk created by the laptop PC. If I want to control the network from the new XP machine do I need to install the network using a network disk created by this machine?

To be honest, I have never used a Disk so I have no-idea. I have set things up usual way, I have a feeling that your other XP computer must be on another Workgroup. Lets start there, make sure all the computers are on the same workgroup. So, back into Control Panel / System Properties and Computer Name, there you can change the name of computer (keep that short) and Workgroup name.

At least I can now file share the new PC to the laptop, and also to the older windows 98 machines (albeit in a round about way- by copying first to the laptop then onwards to the new PC) - but ideally I want every machine communicating directly with each other and in both directions.

Dave - you're a genius - thanks for all your help so far :appl: :praise1: :praise1: :praise1:

I'm away to lie down again :lol1:
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Post Sat Aug 20, 2005 11:21 pm

Thank you Dave - I will follow your advice about setting up the desk top printer. I would have been completely stuck if you hadn't given me your advice. I now have a system that is communicating albeit not quite set up the way I want it but usable none the less.

The new PC was added to run a Cadet solvent printer that I have just bought. This will be linked directly to the cadet via a usb cable.

I wanted to be able to access the other PCs for file sharing. The window 98 PCs are used for Casmate Pro which also drive my plotter. Casmate is no longer sold or supported so I need to keep windows 98 in order to run this software (it has an LPT1 dongle that doesn't work with XP).

The laptop is used to regularly backup all my work so I need it to be able to link to the older PCs and the new xp pc (which it is now doing).

:D
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Post Sun Aug 21, 2005 12:03 am

well, I am more IT side then construction of signs, one of my roles where I work is to make sure that computers are working and the backups are running. I will try and help anyone that asks.

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