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New to printing - pc60 few questions

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Post Tue Mar 08, 2005 3:25 pm

New to printing - pc60 few questions

Hi all - hope i can get some answers to these questions

We're hopefully going to be purchasing a PC60 at the weekend and we might have a contract for 500 printed sunstrips - my questions...

the customer has just expressed an interest in matt vinyl for these sunstrips, i was led to believe matt vinyl isnt all the good for external application as its not the easiest to clean - i just wanted to check this point before i advised the customer.

Im also not sure about the printing properties of matt vinyl (told you i was new to this printing lark) and i just dont want to make a mess of things as we are going to need to order alot of vinyl.

thanks in advance
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Post Tue Mar 08, 2005 9:02 pm

i dare say, if you`ve a contract for 500 units, it would be cheaper to get them screen printed. (depending upon image)
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Post Tue Mar 08, 2005 10:22 pm

I agree with Kevin - The colorcamm is fine for limited runs but its high running costs make it unsuitable for the work you have described. Better to get these screenprinted or sub contract the work to someone who can print these using a solvent inkjet. (Unless of course the design consists of a spot colour image that only occupies a small area of the sunstrip in which case the colorcamm may be a practical proposition).
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Post Tue Mar 08, 2005 11:22 pm

As far as I'm aware a lot of people prefer the matt digital vinyl.....

recently purchased the Mimaki JV3 SP with Mimaki Plotter, would be happy to produce print & cut sample [if you're not happy with your own results]...received sample from Metamark of MD5 Matt 1370mm.....

at this moment I'm happy to learn about the machine and keep it operating

Cheers

Andrew.....
Last edited by Andrew Boyle on Wed Mar 09, 2005 12:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Tue Mar 08, 2005 11:55 pm

thanks for the reply guys - the logo will be only 3 colours and its mostly text and a simple logo so we should be ok - if we struggle this will be the first place we come for help.
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Post Wed Mar 09, 2005 12:12 am

i maybe wrong but i would have thought screenprinting the sunstrips would be the cheapest option compared to the digital? :P interested to know folks costings on this one........would you mind pm me digital prices? :wink:

cheers Nik
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Post Thu Mar 10, 2005 2:10 pm

reconsider the pc60

Screen printing is probrably the cheapest solution not the quickest mind you.

I have a Roland pc60 and it is sooooo expensive to run and you always get the problem with print banding but you can print on matt vinyl.

I have a jv3sp a jv4 and a mimarki plotter too. i would use the Jv3 but you do need to be aware that it will need laminating as constant cleaning on a sunstrip will cause scratching.

if budget is an issue try an edge then at least there is no banding problem.

hope this is some help.
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Post Thu Mar 10, 2005 10:01 pm

Re: reconsider the pc60

MrMonkeyMan wrote: not the quickest mind you.


i would have thought pulling a squeegie once to print onto the material laying on racks to dry.....ready to deliver!! :P

how fast do the digi's print? :D

nik
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Post Fri Mar 11, 2005 1:58 pm

Re: reconsider the pc60

niknaxpc wrote:
MrMonkeyMan wrote: not the quickest mind you.


pulling a squeegie once :P

how fast do the digi's print? :D

nik


I would definitely agree with screen printing being the quickest method of producing these sun-strips, as you say Niknax, pulling a squeegee takes second, but he did say three colours, so about 10 seconds for all 3 colours, per strip............ Just got to be quicker than digi !
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Post Fri Mar 11, 2005 5:54 pm

Hiya
The cost of printing this on a pc 60 will be at least 40 quid per sq meter and that's if you use aftermarket ribbons and none are metallic spots and thats WITHOUT vinyl costs. Assuming the strip is 1.5m x 15cm that translates to about 11 quid without the vinyl.
You might also have to deal with banding and dropouts. The extent of "ink"coverage is not an issue with the pc60 as it has no ribbon saver feature so even if you print a red dot one side of a graphic and another on the other , the ribbon advances as the head travels and NOT only when it prints , thus you waste an incredible amount of unprinted ribbon. We pay about 8-10 quid for either a 60m process (cmyk) or a bit more for 90 meter spot colour ribbon , the ribbon is 8mm wide , thus a 90m ribbon can do about 0.75 sq meter - you will need to use at least 3 ribbons for 3 colours (either cmyk or spots) so essentially 3 spot colour ribbons will do 0.75 sq meters in TOTAL not each!!!. (actually they will do better depending on where the colours are and if you adopt some strategies to save ribbon in the way you lay out your stuff)

Not all vinyl prints well with a pc60 so beware. I would not even consider doing this job with a PC60. In fact I would not consider buying a pc60 unless you have specific applications for it (like printing metallic gold/silver on dark or doing small decals) cos it doesnt take long for the running costs to eat up the savings made on it's cheaper initial cost vs a small inkjet which is actually a lot more versatile.
Nix
I would price a digital print of this , with a cold cast overlam at about 35 quid per sq meter for the trade - IE assuming 1.5m x 15 cm , about 7.50
Without lams about 25 quid per sq meter in high res mode using a premium polymeric vinyl , about 5.60 - But I'm not in england , so your pricing over there probably differs , we can't get the prices that seem to be the norm there due to intense competiton here , we have guys printing at less than 10 quid per sq meter to the end user here
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Post Fri Mar 11, 2005 6:02 pm

Looks like Rodney has answered that question on digi pricing, but Nik also wanted to know how fast can they be digi printed, something I would be interested in knowing ?
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Post Fri Mar 11, 2005 6:12 pm

In terms of time to print with a digi printer : to print and cut this on something like a soljet pro II would be about 10-12 sq meters an hour , you would be able to do about 35 an hour in a decent res mode. In theory you can do 35 sq meters and hour - but I doubt you could sell the output , IE 140 an hour (based on a strip 1.5m x 15cm)
I would also imagine screenprinting to be the cheapest / quickest option here , especially if you do multiples , like lay up 6 or 7.
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Post Sat May 21, 2005 7:32 pm

Ribbon saver.....

Hi all

Rodney Gold wrote: has no ribbon saver feature so even if you print a red dot one side of a graphic and another on the other , the ribbon advances as the head travels and NOT only when it prints , thus you waste an incredible amount of unprinted ribbon.


Actually there is a ribbon saver feature- roland don't want you to know but its that DIP switch thats marked as being unused- we have always had it set on since we found out and had no difficulties- hope that helps some people :D

Rob
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Post Sat May 21, 2005 7:56 pm

Re: Ribbon saver.....

chorley signs wrote:Actually there is a ribbon saver feature- roland don't want you to know but its that DIP switch thats marked as being unused- we have always had it set on since we found out and had no difficulties- hope that helps some people :D


which dip switch is it? :P

nik
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Post Sat May 21, 2005 8:24 pm

all pc60 owners what all this about ??????????
is there a ribbon saver on this roland pc60 ??????????
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Post Sat May 21, 2005 9:02 pm

a bit of a sensation!

Wow I thought that it was fairly common knowledge- I have a copy of the official Roland service notes for the PC60 and its mentioned in there.

I would check out the details but we sold our PC60 yesterday- there should be a DIP switch which is marked as being unused on the little legend sticker next to it, if you flip that switch it enables the ribbon saver function- ie it only makes a pass as wide as the area it needs to print thereby saving miles of ribbon and in my experience not degrading print quality either- it was the only way we kept the outrageous running costs under control!

Glad to have been of such help on my first post!

:D Rob
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Post Sat May 21, 2005 9:29 pm

We have ribbon saver function on our pc600, didnt realise it was on pc60.

:D
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Post Sat May 21, 2005 9:36 pm

Re: a bit of a sensation!

chorley signs wrote:Glad to have been of such help on my first post!

:D Rob


Welcome aboard Rob. I'm still looking to help...500 posts later. (oops, 600)
-Marek
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Post Sat May 21, 2005 9:37 pm

I suppose it is one of the mysteries of Roland as to why they have never told users about this function- there isn't even much mention of it made in the service manual and the switch is actually unmarked on the machine! Considering the money that can be saved using this function I'm surprised more people don't know about it :-?

Rob
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Post Sat May 21, 2005 9:47 pm

Oh and welcome Rob .... perhaps you could post a little something in the "Hello forum" so we can all say Hi properly?? No pressure of course ... I wont come knocking at you're door or anything forcing you to do it ... well not tonight anyway :wink: :lol1:
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Post Sat May 21, 2005 9:49 pm

Carrie wrote:Oh and welcome Rob .... perhaps you could post a little something in the "Hello forum" so we can all say Hi properly?? No pressure of course ... I wont come knocking at you're door or anything forcing you to do it ... well not tonight anyway :wink: :lol1:

Rob, make sure you post a picture soon or Carrie will come knocking on your door, snap a polaroid and then post it for you. :D
-Marek
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Post Sat May 21, 2005 9:53 pm

well hi to the boards and thanks i will give it a go , i do hope there wont be a puff of smoke
thanks again rich
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Post Sun May 22, 2005 8:16 pm

had a look today..9 & 10 are unused, so which one would it be? :P


Nik
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Post Sun May 22, 2005 8:19 pm

Nik hi are you thinking same as me the pc60 could go bang when we start messing with these dip switches ?????
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Post Sun May 22, 2005 8:26 pm

yes ritch my thoughts exactly :P

nik
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Post Sun May 22, 2005 8:28 pm

like I said we have sold our PC60 now and take no responsibility for the death of any PC60s in the morning- I will try to find out the exact one for you in the next week

Rob
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Post Mon May 23, 2005 9:10 am

Looking at my dip switches all but 8 + 9 are in the lower position. I know I switched 9 up a long while ago when I first read about the ribbon saver option - machne still runs with no problems and hasn't blown up :lol1:

So 8 is prefeed option
9 is Rolands mystery ribbon saver option :roll:

Seems to make ribbons last longer.
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Post Mon May 23, 2005 10:49 am

on mine 6 and 9 are in upper position i.e on
i dont think mine saves ribbon though
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Post Mon May 23, 2005 12:00 pm

Rich

before you touch the dip switches the master switch has to be off so that the new settings can take effect on start up dip switch no 9 is the one but it can lead to unexpected results in alignment that's why its not advertised

Chris
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Post Mon May 23, 2005 1:21 pm

Chris im getting lost when i got my pc the dip switch 9 has and still is in the on position do i take it that mine is already on ribbon saver ???
thanks mate
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Post Mon May 23, 2005 3:22 pm

at what verion of firmwear it can in on i dont know - if the no 9 switch is on then it should be ribbon saver.


tyring to think how to write down what happens with and with out give me a ring if you really want to know 01752 840770

chris
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Post Wed May 25, 2005 8:46 pm

did anyone try it out? :P

nik
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Post Wed May 25, 2005 8:50 pm

nik i think mine was on befor i got the pc60 i will give chris a call when i get 5 mins
rich
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Post Wed May 25, 2005 8:59 pm

cheers rich!! :D


nik

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