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are Ink Jet & Laser Vinyls any good?

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johnboy

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Post Tue Mar 08, 2005 10:13 pm

are Ink Jet & Laser Vinyls any good?

Does anyone have any experience with these? are they a waste of time? do you have to treat them specially? Do you have to use special inks/toners?

Many thanks

Johnboy :cool:
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Nigel Pugh

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Post Tue Mar 08, 2005 11:12 pm

Bit of a open question that Johnboy,
Inkjet......pigmented or dye based inks
laser printers.....again need to know what your after as the end product.

Let me know what answers you need and I will try to give you the answers.

Jobe
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johnboy

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Post Tue Mar 08, 2005 11:25 pm

Hey Jobe, thanks for replying!

I don't really know is the answer? i have three of my children in my business who are always coming out with wonderful ideas of creating new products and processes. which is great whilst sometimes bewildering for an old dinosaur like me (my kids words).

we are going to sign 2005 and i have promised my kids that i will look at all these wonderful technologies that i am sure will cost a fortune!

however, before going this old dinosaur wanted to understand from the very wise folk on these boards what its all about, the pit falls, the equipment & maybe even cost comparisons to cadets etc.

So: yes i know its a wide wide question but i have to be honest i have not got a clue!

Regards,


Johnboy :cool:
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Nigel Pugh

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Post Wed Mar 09, 2005 12:04 am

Hello Johnboy,

Well you are in the best place for all the answers you need, probably a good few wisecracks aswell from Dewi, Carrie & Mr.Lambie if he can leave the breezers alone for a minute.

As a supplier/visitor it is hard for me to answer any questions you have unless they are specific, (house rules), but if you do go to the Sign UK show then you will get all the answers you need unfortunately along with plenty off B S.

Fire away with any questions, if I cannot answer then I'm sure someone else here on this wonderful site managed by Mr.Lambie, (moderators) Dewi n Carrie will be able to.

:D If that don't get me three extra cards at Christmas then I don't know what will..........oh sorry and Vectorwise.......haha four extra cards now. :D
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johnboy

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Post Wed Mar 09, 2005 12:12 am

Hi Jobe, Rob is trying to find out why i have "Supplier/visitor" when i am a fully paid up member HONEST!

i take you point exactly! i wanted to get the real truth not the BS that the show people come out with!

However, rule are rules and we must respect them (:)

I am hoping that Rob will sort it for me very soon??????

When he does I can re-post.

Many thanks and sorry to compromise you.

Regards,

Johnboy :oops:
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Nigel Pugh

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Post Wed Mar 09, 2005 12:19 am

Johnboy,

You have not comprised me at all, it's just that I am a supplier / visitor that I cannot promote what I do or any products openly on the boards.

What I will offer though is whatever knowledge I have totally unbiased to give you the answers or part way and hope other members can fill in any gaps.

After all the UKSB is not just another forum but is THE FORUM.

So fire away with any questions :D
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johnboy

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Post Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:45 am

Hi Jobe, well Rob has sorted the Gold thing out!

OK 1st non-politically contentious questions!

are ink jet vinyls a sensible prospect?

What life expectancy can be expected?

Are they stable in weather conditions?

If being printed for indoor use what life can be expected?

Cheers,

Johnboy
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Martin Pearson

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Post Fri Mar 11, 2005 1:12 am

Johnboy, let me have a go at answering some of your questions, then people like Jobe can tell you I'm wrong!!

First off you have to understand that there are lots of different types of inks available and they all have a use to some degree.

Inkjet printers use dye or pigmented inks to print, dye based inks are what most desktop printers use, they are very cheap but are not weatherproof at all and are not uv stable so will fade in direct sunlight very quickly, Pigmented inks are weatherproof and are more uv stable so pigmented inks will last outdoors for a short time untreated. Pigmented inks are a lot more expensive than dye based inks.

Inkjet prints should really always be laminated, this process will make them last longer both indoors and outdoors, with a good pigmented ink and a decent uv laminate you can get in exess of 2 years out of prints before you notice any real fading.

The other side is that the media that you print on to has to be coated so your costs for consumables is going to be higher than someone with a cadet.

As for indoor prints with the right media and inksets then they can last really long term indoors, print with something like lyson archival inks and laminate with a decent uv film and they should last pretty much forever as long as they are kept out of direct sunlight.

You can also run sublimation inks through inkjet printers but if you were going to do this with a large format machine the heatpress you would have to buy would be very expensive.
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johnboy

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Post Fri Mar 11, 2005 1:27 am

Thanks Martin, as you can tell i am a complete novice on this subject!

What my kids are saying is that one off quite small prints (500x500 ish) this looks a good option. So.. with your knowledge is it even worth looking at ink jet vinyl or is it such a poor medium that it is better avoided and more conventional means of vinyl printing (cadets etc).

Johnboy :cool:
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Martin Pearson

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Post Fri Mar 11, 2005 1:42 am

Johnboy, I'm not saying that it is a poor medium at all, it really depends on what you intend to do. A lot of inkjet printers are still about and will be for years to come yet, it would probably be better for you to do some research on the available market you want to target first and then match a printer to that market rather than buy a printer then look to see what you can do with it.
If you are looking at doing just small jobs on it then something like an epson A3000 with a bulk ink system running pigmented inks would probably be fine and not to expensive.
You could buy a roll of pressure sensitive laminate and if you are only doing small prints you could apply the laminate with a squeegee so no need for a laminater.

I am not really up to speed with solvent or eco solvent printers but I an led to believe that they have to be run regulally or the print heads dry up and become clogged which is a costly job to replace.
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johnboy

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Post Fri Mar 11, 2005 1:57 am

Hi Martin,
I see, what has triggered this off with the kids i think is we have a large format HP printer (50" i think). and the thought of being able to double use it appeals. although i don't know if you can get the different inks for this printer yet.

I have agreed that we will have a "good nosey" around at Sign 2005 (we are going on the wed & tue) and i was looking for some good points before going to not quite look the idiot that i am on this one?

But thanks very much for your advice.


Johnboy :cool:
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Martin Pearson

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Post Fri Mar 11, 2005 2:06 am

Johnboy, what are you using the printer for at the moment? A printer like that would be fine for POS material large portraits etc. Have you got a laminator at the moment? Don't know what HP machine you have but is it fitted with a bulk ink system and does it have dual ink lines?
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Rodney Gold

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Post Fri Mar 11, 2005 5:49 am

Inkjet vinyls have a receptive coating to take the inks , they are not at all durable and are not at all waterproof and require either lamination or some protective coating. It's of limited usage in terms of signage , albeit we used tons of it as we printed small stuff on a desktop epson printer and then used a laser to die cut it , and then domed it (put a clear epoxy resin "lens" over it) The print quality you get on inkjet vinyls is superb with desktops type printers.
If you can't find inkjet vinyl , you can try use Rolands coated vinyls (for pre ecosol machines) and cut to size (a3 vinyl for desktops is almost impossible to get and you certainly wont get for your wide format hp)
Other users have reported good results in conventional inkjets after spraying ordinary sign vinyl with artists fixative or hairspray and printing. That too isnt durable.
Ultimately , if you do want to enter into the outdoor digital printing market then the eco-solvent or full solvent printers that can use uncoated media are the best options and are far more flexible in terms of various media you can print on (Vinyl , banner , meshes ,various papers , cardboard , styrene , abs , backlits , blockouts , contravision etc etc).

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