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Signs? anybody can do that!

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Post Tue Jan 18, 2005 9:04 pm

Signs? anybody can do that!

We all know this is not the case.

I got into this biz by a very convoluted path, It would be interesting to know how others got here, and why?
Peter
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Post Tue Jan 18, 2005 10:36 pm

making signs

A good topic Peter..
My 2 pence worth...

I used to race cars and hire them out so every time I hired one out I had to have the drivers name and number.. sometimes twice a week.. A local sign company used to do them for me (he is now a good friend) it was costing quite a bit but not really a problem. Then I bought a new race car and the guy who used to do my traditional sign writing on the cars was too busy to do it for the weekend so I went to the local sign company again and got my name and numbers plus my sponsors logo's etc... When I got the bill I nearly fell through the floor... so decided it would be cheaper to buy a second hand machine and do them my self( OH how naive I was!!!) looked in exchange and mart etc.. could not find one. Tried a few companies selling new but all they seemed interested in was sell sell sell. Eventually got in touch with a company doing a package deal.... They were very helpful with no hard sell and I still buy everything off them today.
Anyway... (going on a bit sorry) I had never even turned on a computer in my life when they turned up with all the gear.... after weeks of playing, rolls of vinyl... hours on the phone to the supplier... who was great.. managed to do some numbers for my own car, then a couple of others asked where I had them done.. they placed orders and it kind of went from there. At the time I ran my own printing company but found I enjoyed making the signs more so pushed that side of the business.. then decided to take the plunge and sold the printing equipment and set up full time doing signs...
The chap who I used to get the original stickers from has always been a great help even though we are only 8 miles apart.. I just keep reminding him that If he had not been so bloody expensive then I would not have set up in competition just down the road!!!!!

Seriously though we do have a good understanding and try not to do each others work... If I know it is one of his customers I always ring him and vice versa... in 8 years we have never fallen out so as I said he is a pretty good bloke because he could have easily stopped me getting business in the early days...

Sorry to have gone on a bit......
But that is how I got into the job
...

PS.. Now I know the work and investment involved I think he undercharged me for the race car... but I won't ever let him know that :wink:
Cheers
Ian
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Post Tue Jan 18, 2005 11:28 pm

To be honest I never thought it as a business AT ALL.

You know when you've told someone "I make signs", and they say "People make them?" I was kinda like that. It's amazing how many people ignore the fact that the signs that are now EVERYWHERE have to be made by people.

My friend was looking for a job for herself and she found "sign-maker", she thought she sounded cool but had no artistic/creativeness. so she told me about it, I applied and voila. Been hooked ever since.

It's not exactly the greatest story ever told I know, but hey.

and No, not everyone can do it. You have to have common sense which it seems 99% of the population lack.
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Post Tue Jan 18, 2005 11:30 pm

What was your path please peter?
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Post Tue Jan 18, 2005 11:38 pm

I Dont mind telling everyone how I got here, but I would like to hear others stories first, Its a little theory I've got. Please bear with me, all will be revealed :D
Peter
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Post Wed Jan 19, 2005 12:02 am

I was Ok at computer stuff and OK at art & design when I left school, but not exceptional at either. One day I was visiting a girlfriend at her workplace and the sign company opposite had a job advert in their window. So, my 2 interests were catered for in 1 job. 20 years later, I'm almost good at it!
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Post Wed Jan 19, 2005 12:29 am

I worked for 20 years in the Brewing industry - eventually reaching the dizzy heights of "Technical" manager for a brewery in Edinburgh :roll: ( Shortly due to close).

In 1995, after yet another "restructuring" in the company I decided I had had enough and put my name forward for "Voluntary Redundancy". I decided to invest my redundancy package in a small business to be run by myself and my wife Alison.

On researching the market, we came to the conclusion that signmaking was the ideal opportunity for us. It combines computer literacy with a range of practical skills and is a creative and satisfying occupation.

My original intention was simply to start a business that would earn me a living. It didn't really matter what that business was, as long as it was viable and provided me with an income. I believe I was fortunate to stumble across a business opportunity that not only allows me to earn a reasonable living, but is work I really enjoy doing.

I think if you enjoy your work, you probably end up being quite good at what you do :D
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Post Wed Jan 19, 2005 12:43 am

Apologise to anyone who's read what follows before (I wonder if Mr L can fit a 'Read It' button on my posts? :D ) but here comes the abbrieviated version...

I was working as a graphic designer, enjoying myself, like you do, when I became quite ill. It made me re-evaluate what was important and when I returned to work I discovered that roaming around with a briefcase, constantly revising designs for print/publishing, just wasn't my thing. One day, a logo I designed was plastered in vinyl onto the companies building by a sign company and I just remember looking at it and thinking 'wish I could do that'.

A couple of days later I was talking to Mrs D about it, and she suggested I looked into it, so we both sat down in front of the computer and started to search about the internet. Pretty quickly we stumbled on UKSB, a post from Paddy, discussing plotters. Within 24 hours I'd joined up and started to learn. Been learning here ever since and gradually I'm getting better at my chosen trade.

Like Phill, all I wanted to do was earn an honest living, but again like Phill, I've discovered how much I enjoy my job and enjoy learning more and more every day. I hope Phill is right about enjoying your job helping you get better and better. I've certainly found the more you enjoy your job, the easier it is. :D

Cheers, Dewi
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Post Wed Jan 19, 2005 9:47 am

morning all
i began my working life as a trainee retail manager in a high st store 18 years ago, did that for 2 years then came across a friend of a friend who went around garages and dealerships pinstriping cars, i thought what a great idea i'd love to do that! began working for him for 4 years then set up on my own, evolving into vinyl graphics and window tinting.
still here now...amazing!

kevin
sign and tint
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Post Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:06 am

My training was in fish farming, worked for a few companies then set up my own consultancy and mussel farm business. Did that for 15 years which took it toll on my joints so had to sell up. Sold insurance for 3 years then got a job at the local sign company as production manager, I was like a kid at christmas for a whole year, then it was taken over by someone not interested in signs, I left, set up my on own, and here I am, loving it.

Dave
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Post Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:24 am

My wife -Jules- is an artist/illustrator and I love messing around with computers.
I was in a job I had grown to hate so we were looking around for something else to do.
We had designed t-shirts and stuff for the extreme sports and VW markets for a while and decided to concentrate on that a bit more when a friend sold us a plotter/cutter for doing one off t-shirts and proto types etc.
Soon people started asking if we could do signs and vehicle graphics and stuff and here we are a year later and loving every minute.

Paul R(Mackerelbus Design)
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Post Wed Jan 19, 2005 11:35 am

I did four years building commercial trailers followed by sixteen years in the retail motor trade. By then I was fed up dealing with the public and looking for something else to do.

This line of work was suggested to me by a friend who was having very great difficulty in getting his vans done (there wasn't anywhere near so many sign companies about in 1988) and so we thought that there must be a demand, and went for it.
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Post Wed Jan 19, 2005 11:35 am

I think I can see were this is going :D

I trained as an engineer worked for various firms ended with a design firm in Kendal, left that when they were in serious financial difficulties to work with my wife doing small design work/websites and other computer based design work.
My wife is also a partner with her brother and father in a classic coach firm hiring out for weddings etc, they bought 5 more coaches and they needed sign writing (vinyl is good as you can remove it for film work) so looked into it got some good advice and here I am now.

Really enjoying it as it's a real blend of basic hand skills and modern technology and me being an engineer I really appreciate it. My previous engineering skills come in handy for designing fixings etc plus the fully kitted workshop with lathe, milling machine, MIG TIG and arc welders, sandblaster .... all come in handy :)
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Post Wed Jan 19, 2005 12:37 pm

well let see

6 year trade as metal fabricator working on the local mines.
then 9 years as a shot-firer (explosives) working 12 hour shifts underground. I have 3 children was surfing the local real estate one night looking for a larger home when i came cross business for sale (jade signs).

mmmm i can do that :D I thought so checked it out did some time with the the owner & 3 months we bought it. now its nearly 2 years down the track life is great . workshop is in the back yard i see more of my kids see a lot more sunshine. This job is great .


so that my 2 bobs worth.
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Post Wed Jan 19, 2005 1:48 pm

My story is a bit long winded but I'll abraviate it.

Left school at 15 and got a job as a 'dogs body' doing everything from emptying the rubbish to loading the computers into the delvery van.

I had a love of graphics at the time and computers seemed to be the course to take. I progressed within the company, and in time became National Sales Manager, with an expertise in graphics software and Public Relations. By the time I was married, I was doing public speaking and dealing directly with multinational retails groups. I had won several sales awards that took my wife and me overseas etc, Then we started a family, and my prioritys started to change. I accepted a transfer interstate to start a new branch.

Within 2 years we were the largest business of our type in Australia. However I started to lose my confidence in myself, and I became very depressed and negative. My wife was very supportive and we both realised that I probably needed a change. I looked around for an industry that would feed my love of graphics and design, and my love of computers. The signage industry fitted the bill, so at 30, I started a 4 year apprenticeship.

We eventually took the business over, and I have not looked back. From 1996 I have not advertised for work, with nearly all my business by referal.

Sorry to bore you, but that is basically it in a nutshell
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Post Wed Jan 19, 2005 3:43 pm

racer

ok...
i have allways been a racer , rode grasstrack, speedway , bangers, stock cars, back to speedway, broke some bones , time to relax ........no, took over St Austell Speedway Team,,,,,,4 yrs later lost the ground , redeveloped. A friend of mine got hold of a cutter system , i bought it cheap, still in the early learning period, but with my contacts i have done 15 vehicles proper, about 40 bangers, 5 race cars, 3 lorries, local club signs, 4 vehicles on my waiting list . not bad for the last 6 months.
i cannot vectorise yet , not familliar with puters, no books for my system "sign pal master" but earning whilst learning . foamex , corex durabond is all doubledutch at the moment, but im sure it will come. which is why i joined,
I could do with a computer coarse lol


I am enjoying the business, the flexible hours are great

mark
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Post Wed Jan 19, 2005 6:13 pm

Wow Grasstrack & Speedway

I've raced Grasstrack since I was 16, not so much at the moment only a couple of meetings a year, also got into Supermoto just before foot and mouth started the big boom, now it's too expensive as all the money grabin promoters are after a quick buck.

Being a speedway promoter is no way to earn a living now, quick way to a heart attack.

Steve
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Post Wed Jan 19, 2005 6:21 pm

Re: racer

[ not familliar with puters, no books for my system "sign pal master"

Mark if you need any manuals for your software or cutter I will be happy to print some for you, it is the Jaguar cutter you have if memory serves me right.

Regards

Nigel
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Post Wed Jan 19, 2005 6:44 pm

thanks

that would be spot on jobe, much appreciated,
Re the problem last week , it is definatly on the port/ cutter side of the system.
I ave been leaving the jag turned off untill ready to cut, It crashes when the cutter is in operation , but never the less i can design everything without crashing ,
the pute to cutter cable is old , kinked , might be damaged, havent found another 1 yet .
i am trying to find a new replacement motherboard for my system , i have been told this may be the problem , but it needs to be identical, as i do not have the software

GOD i am rambling , sorry
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Post Wed Jan 19, 2005 6:48 pm

promoter

You do not have to tell me how hard a speedway promoter works :lol1:

sometimes its (hot) , sometimes its (:)
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Post Wed Jan 19, 2005 7:05 pm

mark Phillips,
would you e mail me please.
Long John
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Post Wed Jan 19, 2005 7:14 pm

email

long john , i have sent you 3 private messages , perhaps they are not getting through :roll:
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Post Wed Jan 19, 2005 7:15 pm

I have been an artist since the time I could hold a crayon.
All through school I took every available art course,
and I even won a scholarship to art classes in Pittsburgh.
I wanted to go to college to be an art historian.
My father sent me to trade school, which I hated.
Altho I did learn basic layout skills and letterforms there.
I fell in love, quit art school, and got married at 19.
I was a stay-at-home Mom.
My cousin needed pictures of cars painted on the walls of his auto parts store.
He called me, and I painted a ton of cars and lettered their names beneath.
Next thing you know, I was painting his work trucks.
He bought a Drive-In movie theater and I did several murals there. (4 months pregnant)
He got me all my clients. Eventually by word-of-mouth, I got more on my own.
I moved and bought commercial property in 1989. Divorced in 1992 and had to support myself.
Hung out my shingle and started getting more jobs.
Started subscribing to Signs of the Times. Discovered that my signs looked like sh!t.
Read "Mastering Layout" by Mike Stevens (EVERYONE should)
Discovered the Letterheads & attended my first meet in 1994.
Been attending and hosting meets ever since.
Anyone CAN make signs....however, only a few can make GOOD signs.
I try to be one of the good guys.
Love....Jill
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Post Wed Jan 19, 2005 7:24 pm

Mark,
received 2 but cannot work out how to get back to you without using this
post please email me at rainbowgraphics@ntlworld.com

sorry about this everyone, (i will learn eventually)
Long John
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Post Wed Jan 19, 2005 8:13 pm

click

long j i think all you have to do is click the pm icon on the bottom of the posting, that starts the private message facility
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Post Thu Jan 20, 2005 12:30 am

As i was about to leave school at 16 my best mate had an uncle who owned a sign company. Knowing that I was into art/drawing etc. he set up an interview with him. He offered me a job as a Silk Screen Printer. I was there for 8 years when I went on "holiday" to South Africa and got a job as a Factory Foreman of a T shirt printing firm.

I spent 5 years there pulling my hair out and eventually decided to go it alone as a Signwriter. (I am self taught) Spent the next 8 years building up a small company that employed my wife and two employees. After deciding that my 13 year "Holiday" in South Africa was over (it's a long story) I returned to the UK and stuck my nose into my old employers to say HI and was offered a job back there.

After 3 years my boss was retiring and had offered me first refusal on the business. Well I have now entered my 6th year in control of the company I started working for as a 16 year old. :o

I am not a good businessman and life has been tough but I am still here. As you can imagine signs have been my life and I am still learning.

Do I still like my job.............

Well apart from the pen pushing and red tape.............YES I DO!


OK folks you can wake up now! :lol1:
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Post Fri Jan 21, 2005 12:37 pm

Me & Aaron Started out at primary school together and gone all the way through to working for the same company doing graphic design and reprographics.

Both spent four years at college doing graphic design then i got a repro job and aaron worked for a small sign firm just as dogs body. I then got him a job at where i was working.

Last year after 4 years of working for the same company we had the idea to start a business doing graphic design and vinyl graphics. We have now been doing this part time for a year now and love it!!

Hopefully now that we are registered we will be able to take the plunge into full time self employed. We both live at home and have nothing to lose so Its looking like we are going to start in April this year.

Went to the sign show last year and it great cant wait to go this year!! :D

Do you guys meet up on a particular day at the show?

Chris

PS Pic of ourselves will be posted shortly.. :wink:
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Post Sat Jan 22, 2005 12:40 am

I am following this thread with great interest, would still like to get a few more autobiograhies, especially from some more of the veterans from uksb. :)
(All info will be treated in strict confidence, and will not be used to blackmail or otherwise incriminate any contributers.) :wink:
Peter
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Post Sun Jan 23, 2005 11:37 pm

Peter Normington wrote:I Dont mind telling everyone how I got here, but I would like to hear others stories first, Its a little theory I've got. Please bear with me, all will be revealed :D
Peter


Go on then Peter - I think it's time you put us all out of our misery and revealed your theory :D
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Post Mon Jan 24, 2005 1:12 am

I'm intrigued as well, can we all have a a theory about what your theory is Peter while we're waiting? :wink:

Cheers, Dewi
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Post Mon Jan 24, 2005 2:19 am

I think it's something to do with the title. I know that alot of people have started because they thought they were being overpriced (in comparison to the price of a plotter etc) and thought "anyone can do that".
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Post Mon Jan 24, 2005 7:18 pm

Hi all
the reason i posted this topic, was to see how many others said this before getting into the business.
I started doing signs and graphics about ten years ago, so to many on the boards, I am a new comer,
to others I am an old hand.
I started out my working life as an apprentice diesel engineer, I then worked all over the middle east in different
roles in the heavy plant industry, and oil business.
I met Lynn, and we then went walkabout, living in Greece for a while, traveling across Europe and Asia. Eventually
we returned and settled in London. I had a number of interesting jobs, that were transport related.
And this, I think, is were the germ of the idea of signwriting as a business was born. In one of the firms I worked for, we
had our trucks and vans hand written, and I really admired the chap that did them. From small text to 40ft trailers, he did them all.
The quote "signwriting, anybody can do that!" Would not have been heard, everyone appreciated the artistry and skill of the signwriter.
I knew that I didn't have that sort of skill, or time to learn it.
Then vinyl and computers were born....
I moved to Luton and started a car transport business. When I needed some livery for my vehicles I could not find a traditional sign writer,
so as a stop gap, I found a firm that did vinyl and ordered some basic stuff to apply myself. I watched the firm make my graphics, on a flatbed
plotter, paid the bill, which I thought was very expensive compared with what the "traditional chap" used to charge, Went home and said to lynn
"signwriting, anybody can do that!"
I did nothing about it then, but years later, when we were talking about a change of direction, we considered signs and graphics.
as we were both computer literate, and lynn had done graphic design at college, we decided to give it a go part time. Not to expensive to start up.
It could be done from home, and we had contacts through our transport business to kick off with, if it didn't work out we still had the main business to fall back on.
Bought a plotter and software, then found out is was not quite as easy as it looked! Anyway we kept at it and practiced, starting with small jobs and working up. One of the first "real" jobs we did was to flood coat a transit tailgate window in white and put a few words on it. Tried it wet, tried it dry, tried it with application tape and without, eventually took the bloody window out and did it on the bench!
Anyway as time passed we got better, and work started to come in. In the end we had enough to support us and I sold the transport business.
I am glad that I made that statement, It wasn't exactly true, but it did change my life. All I would have wished for was that uksb was around when we started,
with all the helpful people on it, We could have saved a lot of frustration and the learning curve would have been a lot shorter.
I would not considered myself an artist, I try always to to a good job, thats always been my ethos, no matter what I do. There are lots of very clever people on these boards, but no one can say they know everything, Knowledge is everything and should be passed around freely, Then everyone will benefit.
"signwriting, anybody can do that!" yes they can, like anyone who wants to be a brain surgeon can, all they have to to is to work hard, listen to the advice of others, take fair criticism, learn from your mistakes, and really really, want to do it.
Thanks to everyone who posted their replies
Peter
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Post Mon Jan 24, 2005 8:28 pm

I have been the the graphics industry over 20 years creating design / artwork from the days of letraset / kroy then typeset what a change in the industry over this period and i am still under 40

I'am no top designer by any means- but when i started you had to have a natural ability, i have worked for top ad agencies in London and could not of got a job unless i had a porfolio of hand designed illustations, logos etc
After working in the city i moved to the west country and started working in a family printing firm and from there i set up a sign and graphics division which i then took out on its own and have never looked back

BUT: SIGNS? anybody can do that!

YES anybody can do signs - a PC, plotter but what a mess SOME of these guys/gals churn out I am embarrassed sometimes with what i see around, firstly this industry is graphic based and an end product is manufactured the skill of setting out a sign is totally different than using say Word and producing a sheet of lettering and clipart.

I am more expensive than the Sign wannabees around but i get the work,
why- my product at the design visual stage wins it and its not down to price it is professionalism, I create an image that then reflects theres, if they want cheap cr*p from someone who does not have clue then i tell them that it then cheapens there business.

Yes there are some new businesses who set out and have an eye for great layout and design, but i am sorry to say very few and far between

But the sign industry is not alone every trade has its wannabees (:)
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Post Mon Jan 24, 2005 10:33 pm

Well Adrian I am not a graphic designer, nor an artist, but I think I have an eye for layout. My 'competition' have a qualified graphic designer but their signs are very plain and sometimes very poorly laid out.

My prices are quite aften higher than theirs but like you I still get the work. I think it is also down to pride in your work, yes I am sure there are alot of people out there are just looking for an easy job, not really wanting to produce excellent signs. It is the same in many industries not just signs.

Just my tupence

Dave
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Post Mon Jan 24, 2005 10:53 pm

I dont really agree with "natural talent" at all,

If your parents encouraged you to be more creative then you'd have a better level of experience with design etc, but I think that anyone if encouraged enough from an early age would have a good "eye".

I've always been "arty", ie, I like sketching/painting etc, due to the fact that growing up I've always had paper/material around to make stuff out of, and I do at any given chance.

The reason I want to make signs, (all types of methods etc) is because I find it fun/interesting and most of all I love creating things, through all it's stages.

It sure beats growing up anyway.
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Post Tue Jan 25, 2005 3:33 pm

I think you have all read my story!

:roll:
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Post Tue Jan 25, 2005 8:50 pm

Hi BigDave, nice to hear from you again.
What new stuff have you been producing (?)

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