my invisible text
Categories
  • TIMELINE

Shop Window Graphics: Ave it Cut

<<

Bill.

5 Star Contributor

Posts: 3360

Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2003 10:29 am





Post Sun Dec 05, 2004 7:23 pm

Shop Window Graphics: Ave it Cut

This is a window graphic I did today for a barber shop in a nearby town. She was very specific about what she wanted colour wise and wanted a caricature of herself in the window, so thats what I did :D

All 751 vinyl, took about 5 hours to apply it all (there's opening times, prices etc on the door and side window). Vectorising took a while as I decided to have a go myself this time, but again, a few hours to do.

Being a big northern wuss, I now have blisters galore on my fingers and my nobbly knees are aching, but it was all worth it to see the look on ppls faces as they drove/walked past :lol1: They sort of stopped and went :o then a big smile. Thoroughly enjoyed myself :D

Cheers, Dewi
Attachments
ave it.jpg
ave it.jpg (62.11 KiB) Viewed 6154 times
<<

Robert Lambie

User avatar

*****
*****

Posts: 27277

Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2001 1:00 am

Country: United Kingdom (uk)




Post Sun Dec 05, 2004 7:33 pm

i think thats great mate... really good :P
its very eye-catching/humourous/inviting all in one go... :D
i think its in everyones best interest that you got a picture of her and loaded that too... just to see how good a job you have done with the vectorising of course :wink: :lol1:

oh and buy yourself a set of knee-pads from b&q ware hourse. get the ones that are about £15 heavily padded and hard plastic faces on them. look a bit like scateboading pads but not as bulky.. they come in very very handy. specialy when doing large banners on the ground and that sorta thing.

thanks for taking the time to post mate...
<<
User avatar

5 Star Contributor

Posts: 14363

Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2004 2:36 pm





Post Sun Dec 05, 2004 8:15 pm

Nice one Dewi, Is the dog part of the graphic?
Peter
<<

Robert Lambie

User avatar

*****
*****

Posts: 27277

Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2001 1:00 am

Country: United Kingdom (uk)




Post Sun Dec 05, 2004 8:22 pm

Peter Normington wrote:Nice one Dewi, Is the dog part of the graphic?
Peter



:lol1: :lol1: :lol1: :lol1: :lol1:


thats freaky, i never even noticed that :o
<<

Bill.

5 Star Contributor

Posts: 3360

Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2003 10:29 am





Post Sun Dec 05, 2004 8:28 pm

Peter Normington wrote:Nice one Dewi, Is the dog part of the graphic?
Peter


:lol1: :lol1: :lol1: I hadn't noticed that! :lol1: Thats the owners dog, it was keeping me company, holding the vinyl at cructial points, and barking if it saw a bubble :wink:

Robert, I've tried using those knee pad thingies, I always end up taking them off half way through the job as they keep getting in the way :-? I've started using an old cussion if I'm outside, but inside I just brave it :D

Forgot to thank Big G as well, I tried his method of applying them, with the reg marks, and it was a great success. I missed my paper template at certain points, but I think I'll use the reg marks in future, saves alot of time and is just as accurate. :D

Cheers, Dewi
<<
User avatar

L-Gold Member
L-Gold Member

Posts: 4595

Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 9:18 am





Post Sun Dec 05, 2004 8:48 pm

another top job mate , i love it
class

i like the choice of font stands right out !!!!!!!!!
<<

5 Star Contributor

Posts: 10440

Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 9:36 pm





Post Sun Dec 05, 2004 9:06 pm

brilliant job Dewi!! :P :P

that really looks terrific specially the lady, did you just sketch her out then scanned & tidied up?


Nik
<<

Martin Grimmer

User avatar

4 Star Contributor

Posts: 352

Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2004 10:24 pm





Post Sun Dec 05, 2004 9:30 pm

Good stuff - although not sure whether she is sexy or scary - perhaps a bit of both... Not enough room for her leather boots??

Martin

p.s. was a free haircut part of the deal?
<<

Paul Goodwin

5 Star Contributor

Posts: 1170

Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 10:55 am





Post Sun Dec 05, 2004 9:43 pm

Like that Dewi,
<<
User avatar

5 Star Contributor

Posts: 14363

Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2004 2:36 pm





Post Sun Dec 05, 2004 9:50 pm

Dewi,
talking about registration marks, did you apply each layer separately on the window, or build them up in the shop? 5hrs seems a long time to fit,
not not trying to critisize, just rying to save you time. and wear on your poor knees :D
Peter
<<

Roy Roffey

User avatar

5 Star Contributor

Posts: 1061

Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 8:49 pm





Post Sun Dec 05, 2004 10:06 pm

tip top mate

get yourself a pint

roffs
<<

Bill.

5 Star Contributor

Posts: 3360

Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2003 10:29 am





Post Sun Dec 05, 2004 10:18 pm

I am :D Can of Bud in hand as I type (makes it harder to hit the spacebar, but it takes allsorts :wink: )

I did a certain amount of laying up with the brown, dark red and pink in the workshop, but I prefer to do the rest on the window. Problem is at this time of year, at least I've found, is temperature. Too cold, the vinyl won't stick very well. Too warm, the window steams up and the vinyl won't stick at all. :o I spent alot longer than I'd planned (I reckoned 4 hours) but it was worth it as the lady who runs the barbers was really pleased.

Yep, I was offered a free haircut, and I need it! :o I look like Fozzy Bear atm as I've been working everyday for the past 3 weeks without a break, but it'll have to wait for now as I have too much to do before Christmas week. I only went to check on a customer this morning, make sure they were happy with the results of some signwork I did recently and they want me to do both their upstairs and downstairs windows, so the haircut waits. Who cares if I look like I've just stepped out of a 70's disco, I love my job :D :D

Nik, the artwork was adapted from some cartoons I already had. I vectorised it, then started to add in things like the stripey dress and the clippers. The lady who runs the barbers actually has brown hair with long red streaks, so it was styled to suit. I also had to alter the face a little, as she a very slender lady and I wanted the finished product to look as close to her as possible. I was actually amazed at how much I've learned from the vectors that Andrew has done for me. He's done some great work for me in the past, and I've been able to disect the vectors and mimic the style. I can't do his interpretation though which is where he really makes the difference.

Oh and leather boot wise, she originally asked for white and red knee high boots, but I took them out of the final design, they just didn't look right and I don't think they would've added much to the overall design. Could be wrong, but its one of those choices :D

Cheers, Dewi
<<

Robert Scullion

2 Star Contributor

Posts: 155

Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2004 10:24 am





Post Sun Dec 05, 2004 10:33 pm

The work you guy's continue to turn out are an inspiration to all us new signees.

Is it true she asked you if you wanted your hair cut round the back and you said no I'll have it cut in the shop like everybody else. Boom Boom

Or the one where she says your hair needs cutting badly and you said I dont want it cut badly I want it cut right.

Jingle Bells

Bob
<<
User avatar

5 Star Contributor

Posts: 14363

Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2004 2:36 pm





Post Sun Dec 05, 2004 10:51 pm

Dewi,
we have had the same problems with applying to windows at this time of year, its not so much the temparature as the humidity factor that causes the vinyl not to stick. Ive had problems when my own breath was condensing on the glass and the vinyl wasnt sticking, Its like trying to apply wet on windows. Takes for ages to dry out.
were the graphics put on the outside,? hard to tell from the piccie, but looks like they were,
Peter
<<

Bill.

5 Star Contributor

Posts: 3360

Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2003 10:29 am





Post Sun Dec 05, 2004 11:08 pm

All the vinyl was on the inside, I don't like applying it to the outside as it can get grubby really quickly on main roads. This is on a main high street, so I definately wanted it on the inside. I know its more difficult to apply to the inside as you have to get the vinyl in the right spot first time, but its worth it as it stays clean longer. Plus, I promote interchangable window graphics, where I put white vinyl on the inside, then apply black text to the outside. The black text leaves a really cool drop shadow, plus you can change it easily on a regular basis. Its great for promotions and stuff. :D

I know what you mean with the whole breath thing. You get to the point where you literally hold your breath, hoping you're not to going to cause chaos just by breathing.

Bob, you've been nicking John Singh's joke book again haven't you? :lol1: Thats a point, I haven't seen John in a while, he must be busy as at this time of year.

Peter, what type of vinyl do you use for window graphics? I always use Oracal 751, but I do that many windows, if there's an easier vinyl to apply on windows, it'd be great to know about.

Cheers, Dewi
<<
User avatar

5 Star Contributor

Posts: 14363

Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2004 2:36 pm





Post Sun Dec 05, 2004 11:20 pm

Dewi, we tend to use avery for everything, By sticking to one make it keeps things simple, and we can keep a good stock.
Works for us, have tried lots of different makes in the past, avery is no better or worse than other makes like for like, just happens we get a good deal on it.
Peter
<<

Bill.

5 Star Contributor

Posts: 3360

Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2003 10:29 am





Post Sun Dec 05, 2004 11:31 pm

Blimey, you changed your avatar in the time it took to do my last post! :o Cool! :D

I've used Avery a few times, its a great vinyl to work with. I think it was Avery that Nigel used on the Porsche I helped him with, I forget the actual type, but I presume it was a cast the way it went round that back bumper (Watch this, Nigel will tell me it was 651 Oracal and it was all down to fitting skills :lol1: :lol1: ) I remember it being a very soft vinyl, and followed the contours perfectly. Possibly more down to Nigel's fitting skills than the type of vinyl, but it was brilliant to see it going on.

I've been tempted to try some different vinyls to see whether it makes a difference to fitting times/qualities, thats why I ask. I really want to have a go of MacTac as I've been told its good vinyl and Cherwells have it in their price list. Have to wait and see what its like.

Cheers, Dewi
<<
User avatar

5 Star Contributor

Posts: 14363

Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2004 2:36 pm





Post Sun Dec 05, 2004 11:39 pm

Mac tac is very similar in to avery in my experience, we have never used oracle, although it seems a popular choice on the boards.
Ive been told, but dont know if its a fact, but a lot of vinyls are manufactured by a few major companies and rebranded by distributors.
Peter
ps do you think my new avatar is better than the old? Lynn didnt like the old one and has been nagging for a change for weeks.
Last edited by Peter Normington on Sun Dec 05, 2004 11:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
<<

Carrie Brown

User avatar

5 Star Contributor

Posts: 4643

Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2003 12:10 pm





Post Sun Dec 05, 2004 11:40 pm

Looks fab Dewi !!!!!! :thumbup2: Very attention grabbing especially the attributes on the barberess :lol1: Bless, your little helper is very cute :wink: :P

Good job!!

Carrie :D

Edit: Ooooh nice new pic Peter, if you dont mind me saying, you look younger in your new one :D
<<
User avatar

5 Star Contributor

Posts: 14363

Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2004 2:36 pm





Post Sun Dec 05, 2004 11:42 pm

Not much younger Carrie, taken on the london eye last year
<<

Mark Shipley

4 Star Contributor

Posts: 421

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 3:06 pm





Post Sun Dec 05, 2004 11:43 pm

Hey Dewi,

Cracking job mate - I love it! Really great to see 'fun' graphics :D

I'm sure we all get sick and tired of the same old 'bold and bright', 'must get the message across', 'nothing fancy - just my phone number' brigade - good work, credit to ya :lol1:

Never mind a bud where's the whisky *drink* ??

Mark
<<

Carrie Brown

User avatar

5 Star Contributor

Posts: 4643

Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2003 12:10 pm





Post Sun Dec 05, 2004 11:46 pm

Peter Normington wrote:Not much younger Carrie, taken on the london eye last year


Its a better pic, can see you much clearer aswell :D I have not been on the eye yet :(

Sorry Dewi off topic with this post, but I still think your window graphics look fab :D
<<

Bill.

5 Star Contributor

Posts: 3360

Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2003 10:29 am





Post Sun Dec 05, 2004 11:56 pm

:lol1: :lol1: I'm the king of off topic, or the prince at the very least :wink: Thank you though, thoroughly enjoyed doing this job, still chuffed :D

Peter, the new piccy does make you look younger and kind of reserved somehow. I wondered where it was taken, I figured it was on an aircraft, so I wasn't that far out, you were up in the air at the time :wink:

Mark, cheers :D I'm sticking with my Bud for the minute, it makes me happy! Oooooh, tequilla, haven't had that in a while, remind me to check my usual hidey spots :lol1:

Cheers, Dewi
<<
User avatar

5 Star Contributor

Posts: 8054

Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2003 1:22 am





Post Mon Dec 06, 2004 12:14 am

Dewi, that's adorable!
I'm sure she will get a lot of business!
(We used to have a Bikini Barber here in Butler,
the stylists all wore bathing suits. I knew a guy
who got his hair cut there once a week!)

On a serious note, there has been a problem with Avery A8 here.
Supposedly the problem exists only east of the Mississippi.
Seems like there is a problem with the adhesive.
After only a few months, it is breaking down,
and the vynull is shrinking.
I loved Avery but now I am afraid to buy it!
I usually use Oracal on window jobs tho.
Love....Jill
<<

Andy Gorman

User avatar

5 Star Contributor

Posts: 3889

Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2003 7:44 pm





Post Mon Dec 06, 2004 12:14 am

Top banana, Dew. It must be nice to get something that's a bit more fun than the usual stuff. You should have asked her to lay on the floor so you could draw around her. Purely for artistic accuracy, of course.
<<

Shane Drew

User avatar

5 Star Contributor

Posts: 11424

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 12:22 pm





Post Mon Dec 06, 2004 11:16 am

Dewi wrote: I always use Oracal 751, but I do that many windows, if there's an easier vinyl to apply on windows, it'd be great to know about.

Cheers, Dewi


Dewi, hats off mate. You've done a good job of this. Every right to be proud of this one. :)

I do a lot of window signs, always on the inside. Although I use 751 & 851 pretty much exclusively, if I am laying up several colours, I will always use 3M 7725, with the clear polyester back. (-)

That way, if you use clear app tape too, you can line each colour up on the glass, using the hinge method. Makes it a snap to do dry, and you have not got the problem of not seeing what you are doing as you go. I find the paper backing makes it harder as you are 'flying blind' until you expose the glue.

Just a thought mate. Makes the job infinately easier. :thumbup2:

Keep up the good work,

Cheers
Shane
<<

Bill.

5 Star Contributor

Posts: 3360

Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2003 10:29 am





Post Mon Dec 06, 2004 11:25 am

Thanks Shane :D

I've given the clear app tape a pop but I found it really difficult to work with :( On small work it was okay, but anything over a metre I found I couldn't get it to hold onto the vinyl properly, and taking it off, blimey! :o That stuff won't rip for love nor money! :-?

As you say, with the paper app tape you're working blind which is not fun. The 3M with the clear backing sounds fantastic though, that would be just the job for the type of work I do on windows. I'm constantly drawing on the backing so I can see where the vinyl is from the outside. Thats probably why it takes me so long, I double check everything before I apply a layer. Do you know where I'd find the 3M stuff over here?

Cheers, Dewi
<<

Shane Drew

User avatar

5 Star Contributor

Posts: 11424

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 12:22 pm





Post Mon Dec 06, 2004 12:03 pm

Dewi, some clears are better than others. I gave up on the poly tapes years ago. I only use the good stuff, you get what you pay for. You are right though, anything over a metre can be a drama either way. The good stuff grabs too well, the cheap stuff does not hold. Humidity is usually the killer with clear tapes.

Anyway, that said, 3M should have distributors all over the UK. Have no idea who they are being 'down under' and all, but I am sure our friends on the boards here should know of some around.

If in doubt, go to www.3m.com and search I suppose :wink:

Cheers
Shane
<<

Nigel Fraser

User avatar

5 Star Contributor

Posts: 943

Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2003 6:27 pm





Post Tue Dec 07, 2004 12:47 am

That looks great Dewi :thumbsup: you obviously put a lot of time into it and i bet they loved it !
The porsche vinyl we used was avery 900 super conformable (sc) but i guess a little bit of the success of the job might have been to do with my "its going on and thats it" kind of attitude !

It is a bit tricky sometimes to do glass graphics when its cold but generally if you use a vinyl of good quality and apply dry then its normally ok (i find avery/mactac work well for me anyway)

If you want to try out 3m stuff i only know of (just watch out for the cost :wink: ) http://www.williamsmith.co.uk/site/prod ... istrib.cfm
or
http://www.spandex.co.uk

but there are bound to be others too.

keep up the good work :D

Nigel
<<

Bill.

5 Star Contributor

Posts: 3360

Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2003 10:29 am





Post Tue Dec 07, 2004 1:37 am

Thank you Nigel :D Thanks for the link to the 3M stuff as well. I'm after trying out a whole load of vinyls over the next couple of months as I want to find the easiest for me to apply to windows. I'm getting alot of stuff like this, have 4 designs in at the moment, so any time I can shave off fitting with vinyls or application method will be brilliant. :D

I remember the Avery stuff now, it was amazingly soft compared to any other vinyl I've seen before. I guess thats why they call it Super Conformable though, as it actually is :D

Cheers, Dewi
<<

Shane Drew

User avatar

5 Star Contributor

Posts: 11424

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 12:22 pm





Post Tue Dec 07, 2004 1:45 am

Dewi, try the 851, it is not a bad product either.

Shane
<<

Stevo Chartrand

User avatar

L-Gold Member
L-Gold Member

Posts: 316

Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2003 7:51 pm





Post Tue Dec 07, 2004 2:43 am

I'm not gonna dwell on any nerdy vynull crap here.

It looks great Dewi! Very punchy and I'm sure they'll get some biz from it!

Stevo
<<

magpie

User avatar

4 Star Contributor

Posts: 485

Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2003 9:57 am





Post Tue Dec 07, 2004 1:39 pm

:o Stunning and fun, what more could she ask for.

Love it.
<<

Bill.

5 Star Contributor

Posts: 3360

Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2003 10:29 am





Post Tue Dec 07, 2004 7:05 pm

Thanks guys :D

I'm already working on the next one, a bit more work in this one, but its still at the sketchy stage.

Cheers, Dewi
Attachments
hairdesigns.jpg
hairdesigns.jpg (29.68 KiB) Viewed 5898 times
<<
User avatar

5 Star Contributor

Posts: 14363

Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2004 2:36 pm





Post Tue Dec 07, 2004 7:49 pm

is this one a lady builder Dewi (?) she looks good

lynn
<<

Bill.

5 Star Contributor

Posts: 3360

Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2003 10:29 am





Post Tue Dec 07, 2004 8:53 pm

Thanks :D Its another hairdresser, again its been customised to resemble the owner. If they don't go for it though, I've done most of the vectorising now, so I'll either use it myself or wait for another job its suitable for. I am doing a builder one atm, but its a smallish rounded bloke, so the vectorising shouldn't take as long :wink:

Cheers, Dewi
<<

Bob @ Prestige

User avatar

1 Star Contributor

Posts: 43

Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 9:10 am





Post Wed Dec 08, 2004 1:18 pm

Ave It Large

Sorry if the answer to this is simple but on the fitting side of things, why would you use a vinyl that has a clear backing if its removed prior to fitting ?

Whats the best clear application tape to use ? I have a couple of signs to do that have contours/outlines and rather than trying to cut everything out to fit I thought it best just to overlay but dont have clear app tape

Thanks All

Bob :o
<<

Bill.

5 Star Contributor

Posts: 3360

Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2003 10:29 am





Post Wed Dec 08, 2004 1:46 pm

For flat signage, the best way to overlay to my mind is using registration marks, you get an accurate fit everytime providing you line up the marks correctly. There are other ways to do it, clear app being one of them, but it relies on lining up by eye, and if you've had a heavy night the night before, you're eyes aren't the best precision tools :wink:

Cheers, Dewi
<<

Bob @ Prestige

User avatar

1 Star Contributor

Posts: 43

Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 9:10 am





Post Wed Dec 08, 2004 1:57 pm

Dewi

Being a new guy can you explain how I do this "registration mark" thing.

I use corel for just about everything and then send to signlab to cut.

PS This is my photo :o not a smiley thingy, so my eyes are bad enough when I'm sober

Cheers

Bob
<<

Bill.

5 Star Contributor

Posts: 3360

Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2003 10:29 am





Post Wed Dec 08, 2004 4:58 pm

Sorry its took so long Bob, been a busy day.

K, in drawing 1, you've created your text. Drawing 2, its been outlined and seperated. Drawing 3, you've added 2 boxes top and bottom in opposite corners.

Once all that is done, copy the original text with the boxes and thats one cut file (drawing 5) and then the outline (drawing 4) with the boxes. Cut them both in the desired colours and weed them.

When you've taped them up, lay the outline first with the boxes. Then overlay the original text, lining up the boxes with the boxes from the outline. When done, remove the boxes, hey presto, multi-layered graphic and its lined up perfectly :D

Hope that all made sense :D

Cheers, Dewi
Attachments
bob.jpg
bob.jpg (42.43 KiB) Viewed 5853 times
<<

Andy Gorman

User avatar

5 Star Contributor

Posts: 3889

Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2003 7:44 pm





Post Thu Dec 09, 2004 1:31 am

Hey Dew, great looking caricatures. Only thing bugging me: the pink used for the skin. Too pink. What about some kind of camel, kind of beigey. Might not be as bright. It's always a problem - skin tone in vinyl. Someone does a skin colour in their vinyl range, but I can't remember who does it.

By the way, where do you get the girly images from. Are they clipart, scanned from something or do you draw them? Not that I'm looking for girly pictures you understand. :cool:
<<

Robert Lambie

User avatar

*****
*****

Posts: 27277

Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2001 1:00 am

Country: United Kingdom (uk)




Post Thu Dec 09, 2004 1:51 am

she used to be a ribena baby mate :wink:
<<

Shane Drew

User avatar

5 Star Contributor

Posts: 11424

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 12:22 pm





Post Thu Dec 09, 2004 5:01 am

Dewi wrote:For flat signage, the best way to overlay to my mind is using registration marks, you get an accurate fit everytime providing you line up the marks correctly. There are other ways to do it, clear app being one of them, but it relies on lining up by eye, and if you've had a heavy night the night before, you're eyes aren't the best precision tools :wink:

Cheers, Dewi


Using registration marks, but with clear backing and clear app tape, you can still hinge them with no dramas. Lets you see through both the app tape and backing, making the registration marks easier to line up.

The hinge method, especially on glass and laying many colours, using this combination is the easiest application technique you can get.

Shane
<<

Bob @ Prestige

User avatar

1 Star Contributor

Posts: 43

Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 9:10 am





Post Thu Dec 09, 2004 9:03 am

Dewi

Thanks for taking the time to explain that, I really appreciate it. The tricks of the trade you guy's share are invaluable.

Jingle Bells

Bob :o
<<

widget

2 Star Contributor

Posts: 156

Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2004 12:21 am





Post Tue Dec 14, 2004 8:23 am

Wow Dewi that window is so cool :) no wander you are well chuffed,you made a cracking job there mate.

just so happens i have been asked to do a hairdressers window,only she wants it all in etched glass :(

keep up the good work mate

Return to Gallery



Who is online

Registered users:
No registered users

 

About
Contact
Board Rules
Membership
Terms & Conditions

 

Signapp - iPhone & iPad
Signapp - Android
Vehicle Wrap Training
Vinyl Application Training
Vehicle Wrap Accreditation
UK Sign Group
Site Membership
Advertising
Videos
British Signs & Graphics Assoc.

 

 Facebook
 Twitter
 Youtube
 Linkedin

 

Who is Online

In total there are 85 users online ::
3 registered, 0 hidden and 82 guests
[based on past 5 minutes]

Most users ever online was
370 on Tue Aug 28, 2018 5:02 pm

Registered users:
No registered users

Copyright © 2000 - 2019 Robert Lambie