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Painted Vehicle Lettering Easyer to remove than Vinyl ?

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Pete Ball

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Post Tue Sep 21, 2004 10:46 pm

Painted Vehicle Lettering Easyer to remove than Vinyl ?

Don't know if you guys know, but this is a question that gets poped to me day in day out as most the stuff i do is done this way... good old paint or lacquered digital print. The answer not one you would expect is YES.. so long as its a factory finish or good 2 pack paint job, then yes it will come of. I recently bought a new shop van, it was in the local auto trader for £5k new shape transit on 2001 plate one owner 18000 miles, the catch it needed respray, heavily painted. So we got the van back to the unit, went to the local asda with £40 & came back with 30 cans of Mr muscle & some brew stuff. Put the kettle on .. blast the van all over, so it looks a bit like a snow sculpture, have a few brews (leave it on to soften for about 25 Min's or so - as it softens the enamel but not the hard under paint finish) put the jet wash on, blast it & rub it with scratch less kitchen pads... Hey presto one nice new white van, it even removes any ghosting, that you would normally have to compound out & no sticky glue to have to mess with !!!!!!! so yes in most cases its easier & quicker than vinyl removal, which is a great selling tool for me... many moons ago i use to offer this service to clients & use to literally " clean up "... hope you find this little bit of info a help. Also did you know that painted vans with some insurance company's are cheaper to insure, as not as much risk of being stolen.. not much good for contract hire users thoe... lol
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J. Hulme

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Post Tue Sep 21, 2004 11:02 pm

Re: Painted Vehicle Lettering Easyer to remove than Vinyl ?

artrage wrote: Also did you know that painted vans with some insurance company's are cheaper to insure,


Now that's a contradition in terms.
Therefore this post doesn't hold water ?

I haven't found one commercial insurance broker who asks for the matter of lettering, the question is either is it 'lettered' or not, not is it lettered with vinyl or painted onto the bodywork.
Please provide details I'd like to check your sources.
I totally disagree that paint is easier to remove because the simple answer, it isn't.

(?)
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Post Tue Sep 21, 2004 11:20 pm

I prefer the look of paint, ALWAYS.
but I think vynull might be easier to get off.
They both suck to remove.
Vynull leaves an icky residue and is soooo tedious.
I use Easy-Off Oven cleaner for 1-Shot, but you can't do it in the sun.
Both are bound to leave some ghosting, especially the painted version.
My brother is a lawyer, and he once told me that for insurance purposes,
neither adds any value to your vehicle.
I have never had to remove a laminated print yet, but I think I would
prefer to get a brazillian bikini wax or maybe even a root canal.
Love......Jill :wink:
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Phill Fenton

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Post Tue Sep 21, 2004 11:42 pm

I think this is very poor advice being offered. Vinyl is much easier (easyer!!) than paint to remove - to claim otherwise is blatantly untrue and biased nonsense.
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Robert Lambie

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Post Wed Sep 22, 2004 12:03 am

sorry mate.. gotta disagree too... im not saying some vans arent painted and the paint comes off much easier than most painted vans. but ide have to say... if pianted with a quality paint. shouldt the paint be damn hard to budge?

i once replaced paintwork for vinyl a while back. in honest truth if i took my finger nail i could scratch the paint clean off.. but still it took ages to remove.
im all for traditional art... and in some cases you just cant beat the look and feel of a traditional sign. but paint easier to remove over vinyl? :no1:
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Pete Ball

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Post Wed Sep 22, 2004 12:06 am

paint is removable

in reply to some comments, Ive being in this business for 21 years & with respect in some cases paint comes off easier than vinyl, it would be good to have a vehicle blazoned all over with 7 year vinyl lots of panel work outlines etc & one painted, both factory finished vehicles, ill bet i can get all the paint off with no marking or ghosting before the vinyl removal. In reply to your quote re my comment re insurance, please check with some commercial brokers i think you will be surprised, one of my shop vehicles is currently insured for £72 less because it has painted lettering & graphics. Cheers. incidentally i recently removed all the lettering & panel work from this vehicle that was painted in various one shot enamels., i thought i was giving some helpful advice, maybe theirs some letterheads out their that can back me up. thanks.
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Andy Gorman

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Post Wed Sep 22, 2004 12:12 am

I'm prepared to give this subject more credibility than everyone else seems to have. Purely because I've rarely attempted to remove paint and never with the method you mention. Incidently, what is the Mr Muscle product you are using? I've got a small amount of painted lettering to remove soon, and it might be a good test of your method.
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Robert Lambie

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Post Wed Sep 22, 2004 12:14 am

well all i can say is... gimmie a full wrapped vehicle in grafiwrap or kpmf etc vehicle wrap and i bet i can have most of it stripped before you finish your first brew! to top it all.. take a full vehicle wrap.. it doesnt have ghosting it actualy preserves the paintwork as new.

this is also a selling point for folk offering wraps.

the police, around the uk are now opting for white wrapped cars then graphics on that because they can use any original colour wrapped in white and the car looks brand new once the wrap has been removed. so much easier to sell on at market...

im not being funny or haing a poke mate.. just need a bit more convincing like a few here...
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F. Skierk

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Post Wed Sep 22, 2004 12:15 am

???
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Andy Gorman

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Post Wed Sep 22, 2004 12:22 am

I don't want to go off topic but, seeing as how you mention KPMF (VWS); have you ever experienced it removing the lacquer from vehicles on removal. I have. Happened a couple of times, vinyl was well warmed. Strange thing, it was on Fords both times. (?)
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Pete Ball

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Post Wed Sep 22, 2004 12:23 am

paint

ooh eek sorry guys if Ive started something here, i know it sounds unbelievable, but if you put it to the test you will see it works, believe me Ive made a packet with this, hopefully some one will agree with me. theirs quite a few articles on this in sign craft & on letterhead.com . to some folk its common knowledge, all i can say is put it to the test on a factory finished vehicle, Rob by the way i wasn't referring to vehicle raps, more to heavy pieced vinyl jobs, cheers.
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Rod Gray

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Post Wed Sep 22, 2004 8:34 am

Perhaps if you were to post images showing the procedure, we could perhaps to begin to understand how it could be "easier".

I, myself, have serious doubts. :D
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Pete Ball

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Post Wed Sep 22, 2004 9:13 am

reoving painted lettering

seems the only way a head as no one believes is for me to put some picks up showing this done, next job in i will do a photo & video & upload, in the meantime have a go your selves, .. i think i will keep quiet in future ... contact me for any help. Cheers
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John Childs

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Post Wed Sep 22, 2004 10:25 am

I believe it. But it all depends on the type of paint used for the lettering and the condition of the vehicle paint.

If we are forced into using paint for anything, like the stippled sills on VW LT vans we use good old fashioned cellulose paint. After three years it just washes off with a rag soaked in thinners. The leasing companies love it - saves them a fortune in end-of-life costs.

On the other hand, if the vehicle has had any bodywork and the respray job isn't up to the quality of the factory finish (and it never is) then all this goes out of the window and the vehicle colour comes off with the graphics and you end up respraying the affected panels anyway.

This method also skims the very top layer of vehicle paint, which is why when using thinners, or probably oven cleaner as well, you get little or no ghosting.

Added on edit. Chemicals these days are far more effective than they were in my youth and these methods do work in the right circumstances. When I was a lad, working in a garage evenings and weekends, one of my most hated jobs was removing painted lettering from vans. In those days the only way was the ubiquitous Brillo pad and lots of elbow grease. That's why I've got large biceps - it wasn't the spinach my mother made me eat at all.
Last edited by John Childs on Wed Sep 22, 2004 10:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Robert Lambie

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Post Wed Sep 22, 2004 10:32 am

hi artrage
please dont keep quite mate.. i mean that.. if we are wrong let us eat humble pie when the time comes. if your advice is as you say.. its something we should know.

looking at a bigger picture though... even if your method is close, if not faster than removing vinyl. what about the installation? i mean.. if we are talking lots of drop shadows, outlines etc like you have said.. that would take a tradional artist a fair amount time i would imagine? not knocking that.. just compared to vinyls that could be put on in an hour or so... :roll:
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Pete Ball

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Post Wed Sep 22, 2004 10:40 am

PAINT COMES OFF

have posted re-edited reply.
Last edited by Pete Ball on Wed Sep 22, 2004 11:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Pete Ball

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Post Wed Sep 22, 2004 11:09 am

paint v vinyl

Cheers John, at last we have some one in the know, yes i agree with you the original finish dose have to be a1, i did refer to this as the vehicle has to be a factory or quality 2 pack finish beneath the hand lettered graphics. I do a lot of wet on wet airbrush work & most of the time i don't even bother masking up at all. just let it all dry, then simply remove with panel wipe. If its a bit hardy you will probley know you can also use synthetic thinner for removal, as regards anyone else with disbelief, then why would i bother posting in the 1st place, just trying to share some helpful advice here guys. Cheers . Pete . artrage

PS yes Robert i agree sometimes it is faster to do the complete job in vinyl, but a lot of the sign guys round here tend to mix & match so you end up with a vinyl letter with painted drop shadow etc . I change some of my customers vehicles periodically, so have to remove full painted airbrush graphics & the like, in reply to your comment on the time scale, well for me i can hand letter both sides of a swb transit 2 colour with airbrush fade biggish logo with 2nd copy & phone numbers in 3 hrs or less depending on layout. I have a full service sign shop & use all production methods available to me, so if its faster to paint, then i paint it.... Cheers must go now as got a business to run here signs more signs to get out for those deadlines. cheers.
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Lee Jones

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Post Wed Sep 22, 2004 11:35 am

I cannot comment on which is easier to remove, but I will give this method a try. Its obvious some here have very strong opinions to its use, but I think artrage was really just trying to offer help in this area, and we should perhaps not knock what he believes to work until we have tried it ourselves. As I said, I will give it a try, and report my findings, but I will not get into which method is easier or better than the other.
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Steve Broughton

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Post Wed Sep 22, 2004 12:17 pm

Pete I don't doubt that it works having read about it on Letterheads and in Signcraft on numerous occasions but as i don't do a hell of a lot of paint I can't comment on how easy it is but i will say one thing Oven cleaner may not hurt the paint but it is caustic to poor old human beings and it won't do you skin, eyes or lungs a lot of good, in fact I'm allergic to the stuff burns like a b'stard but gets me out of cleaning the bbq or oven :lol1:
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Brian Little

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Post Sat Apr 16, 2005 10:01 am

put away the gloves people....live been signwriting for 26 years and if theres one thing ive noticed is things are neve r concistent , ive sprayed panels in identicle conditions ones boiled up the other hasnt ...same with paint removal what works o n one vehicle dosnt on another ...its weird :D
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Dave Ward

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Post Sat Apr 16, 2005 10:35 am

I know this postings old but Just to add my two pence worth....I was in the car bodywork trade in the deepest darkest parts of devon for 20 years previous to becoming a self employed sign person, we sometimes undertook traditional signwriting so have experience with both, my opinion is this it may be easier to remove poor signwritten paint than to remove lettered vinyl using an oven based cleaner such as mr muscle and the like but you will find that in the short term the paintwork on the vehicle would look ok but given a year or so you will see a distinct darkening and dulling affect on straight colour that cant be bought back not even with mopping/buffing with g3, but on lacquered bodywork it crazes cracks peels off the lacquer, and before you say yes but that must of been on cheap lacquer/paint i have seen this on manufacturers paint and we only used 3Ms RM 2K paints the best there is in the business,

I got to admit tho i love the accomplishment felt when completing a hand signwritten vehicle, we even used to paint the pinstripes on vintage cars using a 2" long paint brush.......ahhhh the good old days


Dave

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