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Metamark M7 Vinyl, How do I prevent this fail in future jobs?

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Post Sat Jan 04, 2020 11:40 am

Metamark M7 Vinyl, How do I prevent this fail in future jobs?

Happy new year all.

I have been fitting graphics for a client for some years now but have noticed that some of the vinyl text has badly shrunk and is splitting in the corners. The panels are flat and the material is Metamark M7. This was fitted about 2 years ago. The vehicles are heavy transport ones and do do a lot of oversears and motorway mileage but this seem to be a poor life span. It looks like it has been applied under stress but this is a flat panel there was no stress. The light blue vinyl is spot on showing no signs of wear and tear at all, same vinyl, well different colour, and same artwork file and cut on the same machine.

I am about to do two more vehicles and was wondering if there is something I can do with the actual artwork to help remove the stress from the corners. I have looked closely at the artwork and these corners are fine, no extra little nodes or lines that the plotter may have picked up.

I use coreldraw but am self taught so nodes and the like are still a huge learing curve when I need to try and adjust artwork.

Many thanks

Iain
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Post Sat Jan 04, 2020 11:51 am

How do I rectifiy this in future jobs

Nothing wrong with the artwork, that’s a material issue.

Is the light blue vinyl definitely M7 too as that’s not showing any signs of shrinkage.

Could you talk me through how you clean the vehicle prior to how graphics are applied so we can be sure there aren’t any issues there.

Are the vehicles being cleaned with truck wash by the client? Its a pretty aggressive chemical if not mixed correctly and not removed quickly.

Are they being cleaned with a heated pressure washer?

Do the vehicles travel as far as the south of Europe or even in to Africa?

Regards

Alex
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Post Sat Jan 04, 2020 12:01 pm

Re: How do I rectifiy this in future jobs

It is as you say, the vinyl is shrinking!

The reason the corners are tearing like that is because "It's a corner" and creates an easy tear line.
If you look at all the straight edges of the dark blue letter. they are wavy and uneven, this is because the vinyl is "trying" to shrink 360 degrees inwards. therefor when it comes to those corners, it pulls the vinyl apart.
Another indication of this 360-degree pull is the constant halo of adhesive that is left behind. the adhesive is doing its job, but the movement of the vinyl separates them and leaves the adhesive behind.

I have just had a look and the Metamark 7 Series is a polymeric with a 7-year life on colours, therefor should definitely not be performing like this in such a short time.

I think the fact you have two colours of the same grade and brand of vinyl, fitted at the same time on the same vehicle and one is performing bad and the other is not, clearly tells you there is a problem. If it was me, I would contact my supplier and email them pictures, looking for an explanation.
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Post Sat Jan 04, 2020 12:01 pm

Re: How do I rectifiy this in future jobs

Alex
Both materials are M7. The vehicles are cleaned by my client prior installation but I do give them a once over with a surface cleaner and check for any tar or grease but TBH my client is a stickler for having the vehicles very clean!!! As for how they are cleaned after installation I am not sure but this issue only seems to be with the larger parts of the text as this darker blue is used for other text and is showing no signs of splitting or shrinkage. Again all on flat panels and applied at the same time using the same cleaning materials and application method.
Cleaned, measured, magnets to postion, taped into place, hinged and applied.
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Post Sat Jan 04, 2020 12:03 pm

Metamark M7, How do I prevent this fail in future jobs?

Looks like a vinyl issue to me as there is shrinkage around the edges which normally comes from cheap vinyl so I'm surprised that M7 is doing this as I sometimes use it for trucks with no problems at all.
However I looked at an old M7 swatch (8 or so years old) recently and noticed that some of the blues on this swatch had shrunk while others where still fine so I don't know if certain blues are more prone to shrinking than others, maybe a call to Metamark might help.
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Post Sat Jan 04, 2020 12:04 pm

Metamark M7, How do I prevent this fail in future jobs?

Robert Lambie wrote:It is as you say, the vinyl is shrinking!

The reason the corners are tearing like that is because "It's a corner" and creates an easy tear line.
If you look at all the straight edges of the dark blue letter. they are wavy and uneven, this is because the vinyl is "trying" to shrink 360 degrees inwards. therefor when it comes to those corners, it pulls the vinyl apart.
Another indication of this 360-degree pull is the constant halo of adhesive that is left behind. the adhesive is doing its job, but the movement of the vinyl separates them and leaves the adhesive behind.

I have just had a look and the Metamark 7 Series is a polymeric with a 7-year life on colours, therefor should definitely not be performing like this in such a short time.

I think the fact you have two colours of the same grade and brand of vinyl, fitted at the same time on the same vehicle and one is performing bad and the other is not, clearly tells you there is a problem. If it was me, I would contact my supplier and email them pictures.


I did think this but the smaller text, same colour, on the vehicle is fine which made me think it couldbe some other factors, but maybe as it is a large piece it is emphasising the fault.
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Post Sat Jan 04, 2020 12:06 pm

Re: Metamark M7, How do I prevent this fail in future jobs?

I think a call to Metamark on Monday will be on the cards.
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Post Sat Jan 04, 2020 12:39 pm

Re: Metamark M7 Vinyl, How do I prevent this fail in future jobs?

Another thing to consider is that a dark material will absorb more heat, thus making it more susceptible to shrinkage as the adhesive warms up - or so I've noticed anyway!
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Post Sat Jan 04, 2020 12:43 pm

Re: Metamark M7 Vinyl, How do I prevent this fail in future jobs?

Hugh Potter wrote:Another thing to consider is that a dark material will absorb more heat, thus making it more susceptible to shrinkage as the adhesive warms up - or so I've noticed anyway!

Sounds a good theory but 2 years is still not a good life span for what is supposed to be a 7 year life.
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Post Sat Jan 04, 2020 3:41 pm

Re: Metamark M7 Vinyl, How do I prevent this fail in future jobs?

I agree!
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Post Sat Jan 04, 2020 6:08 pm

Re: Metamark M7 Vinyl, How do I prevent this fail in future jobs?

That's a lot of shrinkage in only two years. I would question the vinyls history as I suspect it may be a counterfeit product.

Do you have any of it left on the shelf to examine more closely?
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Post Sat Jan 04, 2020 6:11 pm

Re: Metamark M7 Vinyl, How do I prevent this fail in future jobs?

Phill Fenton wrote:That's a lot of shrinkage in only two years. I would question the vinyls history as I suspect it may be a counterfeit product.

Do you have any of it left on the shelf to examine more closely?

Genuine Metamark collected from the warehouse myself as the Woking office is just but a 20 min drive from me.
As for any left I am afraid not as I tend to buy what is needed for the job and it was nearly 2 years ago now.
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Post Sat Jan 04, 2020 7:58 pm

Re: Metamark M7 Vinyl, How do I prevent this fail in future jobs?

I really hope Metamark have polished up on their customer service. I used to get through hundreds metres of M7 & 4 or 5 rolls of MD5 a month at one time, had a catastrophic failure on one or two jobs & after reporting it they collected what was left of a roll for testing. Their response was ‘I must have been fitting it wrong’
Stopped using them shortly after, never going back. I dread to think how much that attitude has cost them.
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Post Sat Jan 04, 2020 8:03 pm

Metamark M7 Vinyl, How do I prevent this fail in future jobs?

Kevin Mahoney wrote:I really hope Metamark have polished up on their customer service. I used to get through hundreds metres of M7 & 4 or 5 rolls of MD5 a month at one time, had a catastrophic failure on one or two jobs & after reporting it they collected what was left of a roll for testing. Their response was ‘I must have been fitting it wrong’
Stopped using them shortly after, never going back. I dread to think how much that attitude has cost them.

How long ago was this as this was applied approx 2 years ago so if it ties in with your issues it may be a similar issue.
In fact I had an issue recently where they had changed the backing paper and adhesive and nothing would weed correctly. I posted the issue on here. They accepted there was an issue and replaced any faulty rolls I had. Obviously I haven’t got anything left of the original roll but do have the records of when it was purchased.
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Post Sat Jan 04, 2020 8:18 pm

Re: Metamark M7 Vinyl, How do I prevent this fail in future jobs?

Maybe 3 years ago or so
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Post Sat Jan 04, 2020 8:28 pm

Re: Metamark M7 Vinyl, How do I prevent this fail in future jobs?

Be interested to know how you get on.
I had issues with other males of vinyls & fails that cost a lot to replace & never got no support back. Got all the excuses must be printing, temp, fitting, cleaning, after cleaning every excuse to pass the buck.
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Post Sat Jan 04, 2020 8:31 pm

Re: Metamark M7 Vinyl, How do I prevent this fail in future jobs?

One thing to look at on the Metamark Datasheet, is that this paragraph "8 years for black and white, 7 years for
colours and 5 years for metallics; in vertical exposure under northern European conditions."

Whilst Oracals 551, what I'd consider an equivalent their data sheet states "*** normal climate of Central Europe"

Depends what they class as Northern Europe, just look at the difference in climate between the UK, and Spain.

I had heard a rumour about this in the past, where suppliers were stating lifespans, but using different climates to extend their claims, but they're not like for like.

We've done several trucks using M7, the main ones we do we use 551 as they wanted a specific shade of grey only available in that range, but never had an issue... that said their fleet don't travel to the continent.
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Post Sat Jan 04, 2020 8:50 pm

Re: Metamark M7 Vinyl, How do I prevent this fail in future jobs?

I would definitely class us as Northern Europe. The travel they do is not on a weekly basis but they do go every so often. Most of their work is based in the southern part of the UK.
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Post Sat Jan 04, 2020 9:33 pm

Re: Metamark M7 Vinyl, How do I prevent this fail in future jobs?

Iain George wrote:I would definitely class us as Northern Europe. The travel they do is not on a weekly basis but they do go every so often. Most of their work is based in the southern part of the UK.
I had a very similar issue with a van done with cast vinyl after 6 months. Client was blaming us stating we use cheap vinyl. I replaced all the vinyl with the issue at my own cost.
When he was collecting the the van I asked him how he cleaned the van.
To my surprise he told me he hand washed the van, then goes over it with Tar & Glue remover.
Told him to stop using T&G no more problems.
I would think it's a cleaning agent causing your issue.
Joe
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Post Sat Jan 04, 2020 10:23 pm

Metamark M7 Vinyl, How do I prevent this fail in future jobs?

That is a lot of shrinking for M7 series. Fact!

Thats even worst than a M4 shrink which is usually 1mm after 3-5 years.

As for the cracks, I’ve noticed after 18 months from installation the same cracks (around 2 to 3mm) with Metamark White M7 on my VW Sharan. BUT: the cracks are on the bonnet.
Rest of the car with M7 is ok. (Vertical positions)
10 days in Alps, car covered in snow. Snow melts during day, -20 during night. My bonnet failed.
Every brand vinyl will fail on a bonnet (horizontal) position in snowy/ icy conditions.

I get few fails with M7 above windshield of vans where snow is accumulating, freezing and pushing vinyl around.

Out of interest: can you send a photo so we can see the whole truck and the area affected? (You can blur the client logo and send google image if you don’t want to show client)
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Post Sun Jan 05, 2020 8:58 am

Re: Metamark M7 Vinyl, How do I prevent this fail in future jobs?

Image

This is where it has failed and also on the doors but I haven’t a photo of them to hand.
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Post Sun Jan 05, 2020 10:44 am

Metamark M7 Vinyl, How do I prevent this fail in future jobs?

If it’s happening on the cab too then it can’t be a surface problem as they’ll more than likely be different paints painted at different times.

Adds up more to being a vinyl issue to me
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Post Sun Jan 05, 2020 10:52 am

Re: Metamark M7 Vinyl, How do I prevent this fail in future jobs?

I am going to double check the other text on this rear panel to see if that has also shrunk.
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Post Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:59 pm

Re: Metamark M7 Vinyl, How do I prevent this fail in future jobs?

Just out of interest, how did this go?
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Post Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:02 am

Re: Metamark M7 Vinyl, How do I prevent this fail in future jobs?

Gordon Smithard wrote:Just out of interest, how did this go?


I have been back to install the latest graphics but the vehicle with the issues was not on site at the time. I will update this when I have had a chance to check the whole vehicle and then speak to Metamark.
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Post Mon Feb 10, 2020 3:58 pm

Re: Metamark M7 Vinyl, How do I prevent this fail in future jobs?

Update:
I have been back and finally pinned down this vehicle to see if the rest has failed and it seems so. I can only add one image at a time via https://www.uksignboards.com/topic64371.html others to follow.
Image
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Post Mon Feb 10, 2020 3:59 pm

Re: Metamark M7 Vinyl, How do I prevent this fail in future jobs?

[img]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200210/e4615a98b9c935816a6cc59b11b8ec59.jpg[/img]
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Post Mon Feb 10, 2020 3:59 pm

Re: Metamark M7 Vinyl, How do I prevent this fail in future jobs?

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