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CNC Letters have fallen off the shop fascia, advice and opinions please?

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Post Sat May 11, 2019 4:38 pm

CNC Letters have fallen off the shop fascia, advice and opinions please?

Hi all

I fitted some cnc letters to a shop a couple of weeks ago, got a call today to say one had fallen off and is now missing.

The letters were produced by Cherwell and the tape was already stuck on, I've not looked yet to see what the issue is but have you heard of the tape failing?

I'm a little worried that all the letters will come off resulting in not only having to reproduce them but more the fact that it doesn't look good for my client or I.

It's not the kind of job i do often but it was simply, line the letters up and stick, there was no mention I needed to use any primer of anything.

Thanks
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Post Sat May 11, 2019 5:13 pm

CNC Letter fallen off shop facia

What type of surface & tape was it Dan? If it was only a couple of weeks ago, matching up a new one from Cherwell won’t be a problem, this type of thing can happen, I’ve dealt with them for years, excellent company to deal with.
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Post Sat May 11, 2019 5:17 pm

Re: CNC Letter fallen off shop facia

Hi Kev

It was a painted wooden surface, painted with Dulux Weathershield.

It was painted a couple of weeks before and although it's dry, it does kind of have a tacky feel to it although the vinyl and letters stuck to it ok or so i thought.
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Post Sat May 11, 2019 5:23 pm

Re: CNC Letter fallen off shop facia

Maybe wasn’t quite dry enough or tape not making a good contact with the surface. What sort of tape did they use? As for the your client, I’m sure they will understand mate, the measure of a good business is how they deal with problems. Could happen to everyone. Just let them know you’re on the case, don’t let them have to pester you
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Post Sat May 11, 2019 5:38 pm

Re: CNC Letter fallen off shop facia

Thanks Kev

Told them I'll sort it first thing and I'll have a look on Monday morning to see if I can work out the issue.

That's a good point about not making good enough contact, not sure of the make but it was a clear thin double sided tape with a red backing, maybe tesa.
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Post Sat May 11, 2019 5:47 pm

Re: CNC Letter fallen off shop facia

Ask Cherwell to send you a roll of the inch wide black foam tape (green carrier) that they supply to me, that stuff has never let me down. Had a piece of 10mm foam stuck on the wall at my old unit for 10 years, still there now.
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Post Sat May 11, 2019 6:04 pm

Re: CNC Letter fallen off shop facia

there could be various reasons for the fail...
The tape might be the wrong type for the surface it is adhering to.
if the tape is the correct type, then the surface may not have been prepped properly before applying.
When I say prep, I don't necessarily mean a primer/promoter etc It maybe needs to be cleaned correctly using something like isopropyl alcohol, or even surface scored.

did the supplier ask you what it was bonding too?
did the tape come away from the surface it was sticking too or did it come away from the letter?

even if using a VHB tape, many just think it will bond anything. but there is normally a matrix chart to what tapes should be used when fitting something like aluminium sign channel/rail to composite. ones a painted surface and the other is bare metal. so has a specific type of VHB to bond both.

even the thickness of tape can determine its bond if sticking two types of surfaces.

as I say, a great many reasons why it can fail. I would contact Cherwell and tell them the letters have come down and take it from there.
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Post Sat May 11, 2019 6:18 pm

Re: CNC Letter fallen off shop facia

ahh... posts have gone in before I hit submit.

OK, I see it's onto painted wood and was a bit tacky.
that tacky surface tells you "something" is not right as the paint hasn't properly cured.
I am not saying the tape is now the right one used now. I am just saying the surface it is bonding to is in question.

Do you know if this paint was a bought "off the shelf colour" or was it pre-mixed to a specific colour by the paint supplier?
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Post Sat May 11, 2019 8:47 pm

Re: CNC Letters have fallen off the shop fascia, advice and opinions please?

I wouldn't wait til Monday to go and check it out. I'd be down there straight away.
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Post Sat May 11, 2019 8:59 pm

Re: CNC Letters have fallen off the shop fascia, advice and opinions please?

If only to try & find the missing letter
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Post Sun May 12, 2019 10:20 pm

Re: CNC Letters have fallen off the shop fascia, advice and opinions please?

Hi guys

I couldn't wait till Monday, went down there and checked it out for myself.

So there were no marks where the letter was which tells me that the tape has failed either because of the paint or because of the texture/uneven wood.

On this basis I tried to remove the other lettering, although it took a little persuasion, they came off with ease with just my hands. Once off other than a couple of patches where it ripped the paint off, where the tape bonded, there were no signs of the lettering which tells me that it's the wrong tape for the surface.

I've offered to retouch the paintwork due to my error although my lettering should hide it and I'll ask about the tape with the green backing.

Cherwell did not ask what surface the letters were being stuck to and when they got delivered I expected a foam tape but I just thought maybe I was wrong.

I think I'll get the c re-cut, apply the foam tape and once I apply the mask for fitting, give it a little rubdown, clean then fit.
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Post Sun May 12, 2019 10:21 pm

Re: CNC Letters have fallen off the shop fascia, advice and opinions please?

Oh and found the letter but it's a bit scratched and beaten up
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Post Mon May 13, 2019 7:58 am

Re: CNC Letters have fallen off the shop fascia, advice and opinions please?

Daniel - have you considered using stand off locators? The weakest link here, over time, is the adhesion of the paint to the wood. If (and when) that begins to peel it will make no difference what tape you use, the letters will fall off as the paint fails and release.
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Post Mon May 13, 2019 3:38 pm

Re: CNC Letters have fallen off the shop fascia, advice and opinions please?

Hi Neil

I did consider this but the client doesn't want that look.
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Post Mon May 13, 2019 4:27 pm

Re: CNC Letters have fallen off the shop fascia, advice and opinions please?

Daniel Evans wrote:Hi Neil

I did consider this but the client doesn't want that look.


May be worth explaining that to the cliet and offering a backing board (at additional cost) as a long term solution?
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Post Mon May 13, 2019 5:00 pm

Re: CNC Letter fallen off shop facia

Daniel Evans wrote:Hi Kev

It was a painted wooden surface, painted with Dulux Weathershield.

It was painted a couple of weeks before and although it's dry, it does kind of have a tacky feel to it although the vinyl and letters stuck to it ok or so i thought.



We've recently done a job on high tack vinyl, which was applied to a board painted with Dulux Weathershield (also painted 2 weeks ago). Guess what happened....

Maybe there's something in the paint that prevents things from sticking.
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Post Mon May 13, 2019 5:12 pm

Re: CNC Letters have fallen off the shop fascia, advice and opinions please?

Oh no... Jamie have you still got that table? I can't contact you but I'm interested if you have, can collect anytime
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Post Tue May 14, 2019 7:20 am

Re: CNC Letter fallen off shop facia

Jamie Wood wrote:Maybe there's something in the paint that prevents things from sticking.

Im coming across this problem more and more, I heard they are putting additives in the paint to stop dirt from sticking to it. It also affects adhesion of glue, unfortunately.
In Daniel's case the paint is not properly bonded to the under surface, so it's doubly problematic.
I would say your only real hope is to screw them in somehow, whether that means using standoffs or just putting some screws right through the letters into the fascia.
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Post Tue May 14, 2019 8:02 am

Re: CNC Letter fallen off shop facia

Simon Worrall wrote:
Jamie Wood wrote:Maybe there's something in the paint that prevents things from sticking.

Im coming across this problem more and more, I heard they are putting additives in the paint to stop dirt from sticking to it. It also affects adhesion of glue, unfortunately.
In Daniel's case the paint is not properly bonded to the under surface, so it's doubly problematic.
I would say your only real hope is to screw them in somehow, whether that means using standoffs or just putting some screws right through the letters into the fascia.


It may be overkill but, depending on the thickness of the wood you could use locators and counter bore the holes large enough to sink the locator cup into the wood - leaving it just proud of the surface. Seal the holes with paint before fitting the locator cups. The result should look like surface fixing.
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Post Tue May 14, 2019 9:28 am

Re: CNC Letters have fallen off the shop fascia, advice and opinions please?

Daniel Evans wrote:Oh no... Jamie have you still got that table? I can't contact you but I'm interested if you have, can collect anytime


Sorry, the table is already spoken for, just waiting to hear back on it.
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Post Tue May 14, 2019 9:30 am

Re: CNC Letters have fallen off the shop fascia, advice and opinions please?

OK, let me know if it becomes available again and I'll come over.
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Post Tue May 14, 2019 10:48 am

Re: CNC Letters have fallen off the shop fascia, advice and opinions please?

Dulux Weathershield masonry paint has a dirt and mould inhibitor in it called Stay Clean, if this is also in gloss paints that may be your problem!
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Post Tue May 14, 2019 11:06 am

Re: CNC Letters have fallen off the shop fascia, advice and opinions please?

NeilRoss wrote:It may be overkill but, depending on the thickness of the wood you could use locators and counter bore the holes large enough to sink the locator cup into the wood - leaving it just proud of the surface. Seal the holes with paint before fitting the locator cups. The result should look like surface fixing.


Great suggestion, how would this work on an old building, not sure it's listed but it is in an old town?

Thanks Neil, I thought this but the vinyl lettering I put on seems to be ok.
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Post Fri May 17, 2019 8:58 pm

Re: CNC Letters have fallen off the shop fascia, advice and opinions please?

When doing these type of jobs best to find out what paint they've used, or dictate the paint they should be using (assuming never applying to old paintwork), then your adhesive company will be able to tell you what to go with, obviously if buying else where then they'll probably just put a generic tape on.

One work around is to glue small acrylic rod pegs to the back, then gun some adhesive in to drilled holes in the fascia, like mini studs, but obviously a lot more messing and when time comes for a new sign there's going to be holes left.

As others have said with tape (which to be honest how we normally do it), the fixing is only as strong as the paint
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Post Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:23 pm

CNC Letters have fallen off the shop fascia, advice and opinions please?

Not that this will help now, but I always remove a bit of tape from the letter and when fitting apply a tiny amount of clear silicone, this way the double sided tape does it job until the silicone has set, this way the sun and other factors on the tape won’t make a difference !
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Post Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:06 pm

Re: CNC Letters have fallen off the shop fascia, advice and opinions please?

a few blobs of clear CT1 or Tec7 will do the job as said above the tape will hold long enough for the other to go off, CT1 do a 'Power and Grab' one that is insane, it sticks like hell

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