my invisible text
Categories
  • TIMELINE

Vinyl not weeding properly, advice needed please?

<<

Iain George

User avatar

3 Star Contributor

Posts: 286

Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 2:10 pm





Post Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:42 pm

Vinyl not weeding properly, advice needed please?

Metamark 7 lime green. The pressure is fine as it is leaving a mark on the backing paper but not cutting it. Temp of room is lovely. This seems to be the adhesive rejoining after the blade has cut. As when I hold the letters down with the end of a scalpel it peels clean yet when just weeding as normal the whole lot comes away and I have a blank backing sheet. You can just make out the cut mark on the backing paper yet the letter is not even loose.
I
IMG_3623.jpg
<<

Hugh Potter

User avatar

Premium Member
Premium Member

Posts: 8507

Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 10:43 am

Country: United Kingdom (uk)




Post Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:14 pm

Re: Vinyl not weeding

Just been going through the same issue, oracle 551, smart-knife blade just a few days in (only cut 551 so far), started on 80g (Summa D140), 10mtrs in and struggling now, upped to 90, still troublesome, 95.. 100g now and ok, ridiculous!!

Brand new, clean roll, blade has touched nothing, swapped out when cutting reflective etc. Just don't need it when I've still got 25mtr to go!!
<<

Iain George

User avatar

3 Star Contributor

Posts: 286

Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 2:10 pm





Post Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:17 pm

Re: Vinyl not weeding

Feel your pain Hugh.
Been using M7 all day different colours pressure at 16 on Graphtec cuts everything at that pressure now done this job and up to 20 and still no joy.
<<

Peter Johnson

User avatar

Premium Member
Premium Member

Posts: 148

Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2015 5:19 pm

Country: United Kingdom (uk)




Post Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:24 pm

Re: Vinyl not weeding

Is the cutting strip okay? I had this type of issue some time ago.

I had a new blade and kept upping the pressure but no joy. And then I read somewhere about the cutting strip. It hadn't crossed my mind but when I did check, mine was quite a bit tatty. Took it off and turned it the other way around (left side to the right side, not flipped over 180 degrees) while I waited for the new one to arrive.

Once the new one was fitted, the cutting quality was markedly improved with a lot less pressure. But even turning it around so that it was cutting on the half that was a lot less used made a big difference.
<<

David Hammond

User avatar

Premium Member
Premium Member

Posts: 3451

Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:17 am

Country: United Kingdom (uk)




Post Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:39 pm

Re: Vinyl not weeding

Funny that.

I noticed the pressure on our Graphtec was up to 16, I don't think we usually have it that high to cut normal film (551 or M7)

Yesterday I binned a job, because the pressure was too high, and the backing paper was sticking to the back of the letters, but it only happened on the blue, the red vinyl which was cut at the same time was fine.
<<

Hugh Potter

User avatar

Premium Member
Premium Member

Posts: 8507

Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 10:43 am

Country: United Kingdom (uk)




Post Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:28 pm

Re: Vinyl not weeding

I'm sure temperature and even humidity play parts in this, I've been cutting around 40m of etch and 551 over the past few days with no issues... today...!!
<<

Pane Talev

User avatar

4 Star Contributor

Posts: 450

Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2015 2:48 pm

Country: United Kingdom (uk)




Post Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:11 pm

Re: Vinyl not weeding

I’ve been having weeding issues on a particular roll M7 contrast white. All other M7 colours weed ok. Can this be a bad batch?
Ian, have you tested other M7 colour?
<<

Iain George

User avatar

3 Star Contributor

Posts: 286

Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 2:10 pm





Post Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:18 pm

Re: Vinyl not weeding

I only use Metamark so yes all other colours have been fine
<<

Pane Talev

User avatar

4 Star Contributor

Posts: 450

Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2015 2:48 pm

Country: United Kingdom (uk)




Post Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:34 pm

Vinyl not weeding

They have replaced bad batch vinyl rolls in the past for me. Give Metamark a call
<<

Iain George

User avatar

3 Star Contributor

Posts: 286

Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 2:10 pm





Post Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:38 pm

Re: Vinyl not weeding

All done now. Luckily my daughter was off today so as she pulled the vinyl off I was there with a scalpel holding the letters down. Just need to weed the insides of the letters now. I will call my account manager on a Monday though.
<<

Iain George

User avatar

3 Star Contributor

Posts: 286

Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 2:10 pm





Post Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:39 pm

Re: Vinyl not weeding

All done now. Luckily my daughter was off today so as she pulled the vinyl off I was there with a scalpel holding the letters down. Just need to weed the insides of the letters now. I will call my account manager on a Monday though.
<<

Chris Wool

User avatar

L-Gold Member
L-Gold Member

Posts: 7021

Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 4:02 pm





Post Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:13 am

Re: Vinyl not weeding

what you described in the beginning was glue migration as you said the glue joining its self back together, and is a right pain.

quick test is to cut a few letters and weed immediately if weeds ok but left 15 mins ish results in poor weeding then thats the issue. think manufactures know about it quite well had a roll changed before now.
dont know the technical reason presume the glue is too stringy thats a good description
<<

Iain George

User avatar

3 Star Contributor

Posts: 286

Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 2:10 pm





Post Sat Feb 16, 2019 8:17 am

Re: Vinyl not weeding

I think it is definitely a glue issue. As I also noticed whilst weeding that it was really sticky. Sometimes if you let the excess vinyl touch the vinyl to be weeded it sticks but can be lifted, not this time!
<<

Neil Davey

User avatar

L-Gold Member
L-Gold Member

Posts: 2521

Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2003 8:58 pm





Post Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:41 am

Re: Vinyl not weeding properly, advice needed please?

I've recently had exactly the same issue with Metamark Lime Green!
<<

Iain George

User avatar

3 Star Contributor

Posts: 286

Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 2:10 pm





Post Fri Feb 22, 2019 1:44 pm

Re: Vinyl not weeding properly, advice needed please?

Just a quick update. After the trouble with the lime I have fitted a brand new blade ( Smart Knife) from Edward Mathias and have a brand new roll of M7 black collected from the warehouse in Woking not 1 hour ago and we have exactly the same issue. It is definitely a glue issue as on some of the text, especially straight edges this is a bold font no serifs, you can see thin strands of glue like a spiders web lifting the letters off the backing paper despite being cut. I am currently awaiting a response from Metamark.
<<

Kevin Mahoney

User avatar

4 Star Contributor

Posts: 463

Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2011 2:27 pm





Post Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:39 pm

Re: Vinyl not weeding properly, advice needed please?

Would this maybe have something to do with M7 lettering peeling off in icy conditions as mentioned in a separate post?
<<

Iain George

User avatar

3 Star Contributor

Posts: 286

Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 2:10 pm





Post Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:41 pm

Re: Vinyl not weeding properly, advice needed please?

As I am close by to Metamark I have an appointment on Monday to see them. The lady I spoke to had never heard of glue migration but did agree there had been issues with Lime Green.
I will keep you all updated.
<<

Neil Davey

User avatar

L-Gold Member
L-Gold Member

Posts: 2521

Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2003 8:58 pm





Post Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:29 pm

Re: Vinyl not weeding properly, advice needed please?

I had a problem with one of their new colours, aluminium silver, late last year. It peeled the silicone backing paper up in places and also didn’t want to come off the paper easily. I rang and they mentioned glue migration to me.
<<

Iain George

User avatar

3 Star Contributor

Posts: 286

Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 2:10 pm





Post Sat Feb 23, 2019 1:15 pm

Re: Vinyl not weeding properly, advice needed please?

Another update for you.
Have had a friend come over with some older stock of metamark vinyl and the black has lifted fine nothing changed on my plotter yet he also bought over some that was delivered to him only on Thursday and it is all sticking.
I have also run it through my CJV 30-60, have never just cut vinyl before as have the plotter and the same thing happens.
I can only conclude from this that the Metamark vinyls have changed. If you have a graphtec plotter please could i ask what pressure you normally cut metamark vinyl at, I know there are other variants but at least it is a starting point.
<<

Pane Talev

User avatar

4 Star Contributor

Posts: 450

Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2015 2:48 pm

Country: United Kingdom (uk)




Post Sat Feb 23, 2019 1:47 pm

Vinyl not weeding properly, advice needed please?

Hi Iain,

Navy M7 just arrived today.

I did a test after reading your post.

Cuts and weeds ok 80g knife pressure

Summa D140

Cutter offset 0.48 as per Edwards Mathias advice

[img]https://www.uksignboards.com/mobile-gallery/8ba74b829233aee5c7c4c17117f9422b.jpg[/img]
<<

Colin Crabb

5 Star Contributor

Posts: 569

Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2012 4:50 pm





Post Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:25 pm

Re: Vinyl not weeding properly, advice needed please?

Just used 30m of fresh M7-155, Summa D140, pressure 75g - cuts and weeds perfectly.

Also MDP-H 100mic, pressure 90g, 10metres of labels, no problems weeding:MDP-H weeding
<<

Iain George

User avatar

3 Star Contributor

Posts: 286

Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 2:10 pm





Post Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:29 pm

Re: Vinyl not weeding properly, advice needed please?

How odd. Have been playing around with all the colours on the shelf even ones covered in dust and have shrunk in from the edges. All cuts fine apart from the newest M7. Colin where about in the Country are you? Maybe different depots have different batches? Did you buy direct from Metamark or a third party supplier.
<<

Colin Crabb

5 Star Contributor

Posts: 569

Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2012 4:50 pm





Post Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:40 pm

Re: Vinyl not weeding properly, advice needed please?

I'm down in deepest darkest Dorset :cool:
Buy direct from Metamark, the last batch I had to wait a few days for the blue to come back in stock as needed 30m for 4 Transit Custom vans in one hit (oh and do I HATE transit customs.... nothing looks straight!!!)

Iain, I have some left over, do you want me to post you some to test?????
<<

Iain George

User avatar

3 Star Contributor

Posts: 286

Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 2:10 pm





Post Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:48 pm

Re: Vinyl not weeding properly, advice needed please?

Have used my friends Ultramarine this morning and have had the same issues. Yet put it through the Mimaki CJV cut only and weeds fine.
Apart from the blade what else could it be?
As I say the pressure used has been from just cutting the vinyl through to nearly going through the backing paper. Each time it lifts the letters as I weed. I had my mate over this morning as I thought I was going mad. He has no idea either.
Tried 4 blades, including a brand new one. The same result. Will just have to wait and see what Metamark day on Monday.
<<

Pane Talev

User avatar

4 Star Contributor

Posts: 450

Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2015 2:48 pm

Country: United Kingdom (uk)




Post Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:40 pm

Re: Vinyl not weeding properly, advice needed please?

What about taking your vinyl and try cutting on your friend cutter?
Temperature in you workshop?
Are rolls near a radiator?
Are rolls on direct sun?
<<

Iain George

User avatar

3 Star Contributor

Posts: 286

Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 2:10 pm





Post Sat Feb 23, 2019 6:10 pm

Re: Vinyl not weeding properly, advice needed please?

My mate only uses my machine. He used to work for the same company as me but we’re both laid off. He is now a gardener but does the odd van so uses my machine.
<<

Chris Wool

User avatar

L-Gold Member
L-Gold Member

Posts: 7021

Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 4:02 pm





Post Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:01 pm

Re: Vinyl not weeding properly, advice needed please?

Iain George wrote:How odd. Have been playing around with all the colours on the shelf even ones covered in dust and have shrunk in from the edges. All cuts fine apart from the newest M7.


think you proved the point its faulty, in the past found it best to change makes quick while they sort the batches out else you will keep getting the bad stock. you have to earn a living and its not testing there stock for them.



although its manufactured in the uk all the ingredients as far as i can tell come from the eu, so perhaps the eu are sending the crap over early. just a thought :wink:
<<

Iain George

User avatar

3 Star Contributor

Posts: 286

Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 2:10 pm





Post Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:04 am

Re: Vinyl not weeding properly, advice needed please?

Chris
That is what I will do but as I was trying to get a job out I had to use what I had on the shelf. Also I wanted to take samples into Metamark on Monday so there is no question about there faulty goods.
<<

Iain George

User avatar

3 Star Contributor

Posts: 286

Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 2:10 pm





Post Wed Feb 27, 2019 9:27 pm

Re: Vinyl not weeding properly, advice needed please?

Okay so as soon as I handed the vinyl over they were aware of the issue didn’t even need to see my issue just saw the backing paper and knew it was a bad batch. Something to do with the silicone coating on the backing paper.
Makes you wonder why it was sent out on the first place?

Return to Vinyl



 

About
Contact
Board Rules
Membership
Terms & Conditions

 

Signapp - iPhone & iPad
Signapp - Android
Vehicle Wrap Training
Vinyl Application Training
Vehicle Wrap Accreditation
UK Sign Group
Site Membership
Advertising
Videos
British Signs & Graphics Assoc.

 

 Facebook
 Twitter
 Youtube
 Linkedin

 

Who is Online

In total there are 51 users online ::
3 registered, 0 hidden and 48 guests
[based on past 5 minutes]

Most users ever online was
370 on Tue Aug 28, 2018 5:02 pm

Registered users:
Graeme Dingwall, Luke Culpin

Copyright © 2000 - 2019 Robert Lambie