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Making a folded composite pan sign, advice needed please?

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Post Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:26 pm

Making a folded composite pan sign, advice needed please?

I have attempted to make a pan sign in the past and as much as it was straightforward to do, it didn't work out just as i would have liked. I had two problems that i hope with some advice, i will get right next week when i attempt it again.

I found two problems.

Problem 1
I used a v-shape groove router bit on the rear of my composite board, to create the fold.
This was fine and i completed the fold lines. but when i made the fold, the fold/flap would not sit at an exact 90 degree angle. it was tight to fold and kept opening back up.
I did cut deep enough and in areas i was showing a little bit silver from the opposite side metal face. but still it was hard to fold.

Problem 2
I cut the corners out and when i folded the sides. they looked fine, but did not look as neat as i see some.
There appears to be a sort of cut and fold for the corners. How do i make these corners, is there a sort of jig-method for doing them?

Thanks in advance for any help you can give on this.
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Post Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:15 pm

Re: Making a folded composite pan sign, advice needed please?

To cut the groove you need a special bit that has a flattened point as per the picture at the very bottom below. This takes away more of the polyethylene material allowing it to fold more easily to 90 degrees

The first and second pictures show how the corners should be cut (as recommended by dibond and how I prefer to do them). This avoids a join in the corner and placing the joints away from the corners themselves, (though many prefer a more straightforward approach where the joins are in the actual corners).
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5.jpg
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Post Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:30 pm

Re: Making a folded composite pan sign, advice needed please?

As Phil says.

However double check you don’t have a “lite panel” from I bond or skybond as that’s a pain in the ( oh i swore ), if not impossible to fold. I would of thought regardless of the cutter if it was through to the second
Aluminium skin it should practically flop over.

Make sure your bench is solid. This could be why the router but is cut through the second skin in parts and not others. Again been there.
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Post Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:31 pm

Re: Making a folded composite pan sign, advice needed please?

Edward Mathias do a purpose made router bit with a 3mm flat on it, should make the fold a lot less resistant to pulling out.
My own preference is to do a straightforward 90 degree corner reinforced with a corner bracket made from 40 x40 aluminum angle. We finish with a rivet in the corners & they look fine
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Post Sun Oct 14, 2018 1:51 am

Re: Making a folded composite pan sign, advice needed please?

Hi Peter
Here's a PDF download to the official "Dibond" manual.
Lots of advice on how to work with the stuff.
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Dibond-Composite-Fabrication.pdf
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Post Sun Oct 14, 2018 2:03 am

Re: Making a folded composite pan sign, advice needed please?

Thank you very much everyone!

Phill this makes much more sense to me now. I can see how the flat tip will clear that bit more of the core to allow the fold to happen easier. I have done some Googling on those router tips and dibond and it gave me good result in explaining what you say. I have attached them below also.
Your corners are the ones i like, they just look much neater. My only thought now is with the line at an angle and then two rivets, does it draw more attention to the join? I imagine it will be also stronger though!

Chris, thanks for the tips. Yes it is definitely the better grade of composite i am using.

Kevin thank you! I will give them a call Monday. am I just asking for a v-groove bit with flat tip for composite or is there a specific name?

Thanks David, I will download this now and have a look mate.
Attachments
sign-composite-corner-bracket.png
V-routing-diagram.png
V-routing-diagram-2.png
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Post Sun Oct 14, 2018 1:12 pm

Re: Making a folded composite pan sign, advice needed please?

Speak to Harry, tell him what you want to do & he’ll see you right
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Post Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:44 pm

Re: Making a folded composite pan sign, advice needed please?

Kevin Mahoney wrote:Speak to Harry, tell him what you want to do & he’ll see you right

But make sure you have an hour or so to spare
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Post Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:02 pm

Re: Making a folded composite pan sign, advice needed please?

been there a few times. Never order blades on a Monday morning.
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Post Mon Oct 15, 2018 5:30 am

Re: Making a folded composite pan sign, advice needed please?

Thank you I will try Edward Mathias, but is that company the only trade supplier to do them?
I looked on their website but could not see any mention of router cutters or similar.
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Post Mon Oct 15, 2018 5:53 am

Re: Making a folded composite pan sign, advice needed please?

Peter Harrison wrote:Thank you I will try Edward Mathias, but is that company the only trade supplier to do them?
I looked on their website but could not see any mention of router cutters or similar.
Try Trend http://www.trend-uk.com/en/UK/productli ... obond.html
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Post Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:43 pm

Re: Making a folded composite pan sign, advice needed please?

Hi
you can use a standard round router bit subject to its radius it will give either a tight bend or a more radius-ed corner, 6mm is a tight corner

Kev
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Post Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:57 am

Re: Making a folded composite pan sign, advice needed please?

I've been using a flat 6mm / 1/4" bit for years. Gives a beautiful 6mm radius to the folds...and you can overbend it past 90 degrees to get it to stay. 'V' bits give a much sharper edge...I prefer the softer look.

Tend to leave a little bit more meat on the material (not just the alloy) and warm up the groove these days with a heat gun to make bending easier...it'll also hold better once cool.

Always using 0.3 skin composite...tried the cheapo stuff - the core is made of junk and the skin practically tin-foil.

Also never bothered with the folded back corners...routed straight off the edges, trim out the corner and Bob's your uncle.

Sub-frame / mounting tight to the corners & screwed in with coloured screws as required.

Dave
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Post Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:46 pm

Re: Making a folded composite pan sign, advice needed please?

Dave

Do you have a link to the piece?

I need to get one of these myself and can't find it by googling.

Thanks

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