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Metamark digital vinyl issues, anyone else having problems?

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Post Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:12 am

Metamark digital vinyl issues, anyone else having problems?

Since about September last year, we've been noticing issues with Metamark digital vinyls peeling off surfaces. No problems at all with the cut vinyl (M4 or M7) but pretty much everything printed has needed to be fixed or replaced. This is MD3, MD5, and Clearvision fitted to flex material, glass (not self-cleaning), and aluminium composite panels.

I have a panel in the workshop now where the vinyl has been fitted for a week, but the edges are starting to lift and the vinyl can be peeled of with no effort whatsoever. If there's cut vinyl and digital vinyl on the same substrate, put on at the same time, using the same technique, the cut vinyl will be fine, but the digital will lift. I've been doing this with the same technique using the same printer and vinyls for years, and have never had these issues. I'm wondering if the adhesive has changed as a cost cutting exercise?

Is anyone else having similar issues?
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Post Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:34 am

Re: Metamark digital vinyl issues

Had similar issues with MD5 around the time they launched the MDX material. They had a sample of the material back & the response was ‘there is no issue with the material, we can only assume that it was installed incorrectly ‘ . We switched to image perfect instantly, never looked back. You could bet the farm on MD5 at one time, was a fantastic material to work with but in my experience it felt different to what we were used to so we had no choice but to stop using it.
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Post Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:39 am

Re: Metamark digital vinyl issues

What printer & ink are you using?
Are they laminated?
Are you outgassing before laminating or fitting?
Is it their Metascape adhesive?

We've been users of Metamark for years, and touch wood not had an issue. Be interested to see what others experiences are.
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Post Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:51 am

Re: Metamark digital vinyl issues

We have always used Roland printers, nazdar ink, out gas print for 48 hours before laminating & know the limits of a good quality polymeric, I personally think MD5 had changed in the way it was being manufactured but that aside, if failures were becoming more common, we had to find an alternative. Shame really, used it for 15 years & it was bulletproof
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Post Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:04 am

Re: Metamark digital vinyl issues

What range of image perfect material matches MD3 and MD5?

I've personally not had an issue but always nice to keep track of how materials are performing for others.
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Post Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:40 am

Re: Metamark digital vinyl issues

We're going through 300m+ per week on a range of Metamark products, all printed on HP Latex machines.
Never had any issues at all - highly rate Metamark media, for use over the last couple of years it has been a perfect performer.
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Post Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:43 am

Re: Metamark digital vinyl issues

David Hammond wrote:What printer & ink are you using?
Are they laminated?
Are you outgassing before laminating or fitting?
Is it their Metascape adhesive?

We've been users of Metamark for years, and touch wood not had an issue. Be interested to see what others experiences are.

I'm using a Mimaki JV3 (same printer I've been using for about 8 years with no issues) with Nazdar ink (been using that for about 4-5 years with no issues). All prints are allowed to outgas before laminating or fitting for 48 hours (24 hrs absolute minimum with occasional jobs). This is using the standard adhesive, not metascape. Funnily enough, we use M7A metascape for cut vinyl and that works flawlessly.

As I say, we had no problems with the Metamark digital vinyl til about September last year. Nothing has changed our end.
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Post Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:14 pm

Re: Metamark digital vinyl issues

Almost exclusively use MD3 for print work. Gloss white with gloss clear as the laminate NOT metaguard as it saves me carrying added materials as we reverse print a lot of windows and plaques.

JV3 (160) and Nazdar Lyson 1300 inks.

It is an 'easy / clean peel' although permanent adhesive but never had any lifting issues on composite, pvc, acrylic, glass or vehicle paint. Fit all composite, pvc and vehicles dry...mixture of wet on glass and acrylic.

I highly recommend wrapping the edges of panels wherever possible as any 'edge creep' after fitting can roll back the unprotected edge after a couple of years on external panels that get sun baked... especially if heavy ink coverage as the solvent inks definitely damage the adhesives.
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Post Mon Sep 02, 2019 11:40 pm

Re: Metamark digital vinyl issues

Weve used MD5 for as long as i remember and never had issues. Until recently!

Weve wrapped vans in the stuff and never popped.
Now weve started to see panels peeling and curling, just like you are describing.
We print around the clock and must be using at least 2 x 50m rolls a week of just MD5 alone, this could bite us in the ( oh i swore ) bigtime.

Roland VS-6400i, with the specified profiles from roland and metamark.
Over laminated with the matching laminate.
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Post Tue Sep 03, 2019 9:09 am

Re: Metamark digital vinyl issues

Hi Chris,

First question - what are you 'wrapping' with MD5?

Gil
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Post Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:15 pm

Re: Metamark digital vinyl issues, anyone else having problems?

Gil Johnson wrote:Hi Chris,

First question - what are you 'wrapping' with MD5?

Gil


Hi Gil,

We dont use MD5 for wraps anymore, just signage however my point was we never had issues in the past and now even flat panels are failing.
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Post Tue Sep 03, 2019 4:20 pm

Re: Metamark digital vinyl issues, anyone else having problems?

If it’s a heavy ink coverage sounds like gassing out perhaps.
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Post Tue Sep 03, 2019 4:31 pm

Re: Metamark digital vinyl issues, anyone else having problems?

Chris Tennant wrote:We don't use MD5 for wraps anymore,
just signage however my point was we never had issues in the past and now even flat panels are failing.


Can you describe the fail please, what happens?
Do you have any pictures?
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Post Wed Sep 04, 2019 3:11 pm

Re: Metamark digital vinyl issues, anyone else having problems?

To my knowledge, I've had no failures or issues with our L26500 latex, I use 1-2 rolls a month.
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Post Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:13 am

Re: Metamark digital vinyl issues, anyone else having problems?

Robert Lambie wrote:
Chris Tennant wrote:We don't use MD5 for wraps anymore,
just signage however my point was we never had issues in the past and now even flat panels are failing.


Can you describe the fail please, what happens?
Do you have any pictures?


Basically edges of boards are starting to creep back and curl.

We have a van coming back in for repair next week so will get a pic. This was a panel wrap on the flat area only, no stress was put on vinyl.
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Post Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:03 am

Re: Metamark digital vinyl issues, anyone else having problems?

It sounds like it hasn’t outgassed enough, how do you dry your prints?
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Post Thu Sep 05, 2019 3:08 pm

Re: Metamark digital vinyl issues, anyone else having problems?

Kevin Mahoney wrote:It sounds like it hasn’t outgassed enough, how do you dry your prints?
they are rolled up loose and left for a couple of days in our print room. Always been done the same way.
We know metamark changed the backing to less silicone but thats the only difference we know of
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Post Thu Sep 05, 2019 5:52 pm

Re: Metamark digital vinyl issues, anyone else having problems?

Yeah, I switched not long after. I had a huge failure in a horizontal stripe across the side of a transporter. It was a foot across which they said was probably a fitting error. Not cool
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Post Thu Sep 05, 2019 6:04 pm

Re: Metamark digital vinyl issues, anyone else having problems?

Had issues with MDi, switched to MD5 again, no issues to date.
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Post Thu Sep 05, 2019 10:47 pm

Re: Metamark digital vinyl issues, anyone else having problems?

Going to give Hexis a go again, hopefully the HX190WG2 will suffice
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Post Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:21 pm

Re: Metamark digital vinyl issues, anyone else having problems?

We are users of MD3 and MD5, plus the matching MG laminates, and we've never had any real problems with either vinyl and continue to be very happy with them. Last month went through over 25 rolls and zero issues. Printed on HP Latex 560. Ten out of ten for us.

Cheers
Dave

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