my invisible text
Categories
  • TIMELINE

Considering Printing, Which Printer?

<<

1 Star Contributor

Posts: 45

Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2017 9:32 pm

Country: United Kingdom (uk)




Post Fri Aug 04, 2017 2:01 pm

Considering Printing, Which Printer?

Hi all,

First time on the forum, just really wanted some opinions really?

I have been running an online business on a few platforms since 2012. Over the past 5 years I have been creating wall stickers and vehicle graphics solely by using a plotter (Graphtec CE6000-60) and have a good steady income from it.

I just wanted to get some opinions on getting into the printing world a bit. I am looking for something to pair up with the Graphtec we already have. I have been looking at the HP Design Jets as they can be picked up really cheap and can print on vinyl.

I completely understand that even with over laminating that due to them using water based ink, they simply will not be any use for outdoor decals or any of the vehicle graphics. My question is will a designjet or similar, be able to print to digital media vinyl and overlaminted for wall sticker use?

I simply don't think I have the customer base or platform to make it justifiable to buy a solvent printer, and am considering that a designjet or similar may be a way to start "tinkering" in the world of printed stickers without the large outlay.

Also does anyone have any idea on the costs of say an A1 size print on a designjet t520?

Appreciate the help!
Matt.
<<

5 Star Contributor

Posts: 585

Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2012 4:50 pm





Post Fri Aug 04, 2017 4:06 pm

Re: Considering Printing, Which Printer?

HP Design Jets as they can be picked up really cheap and can print on vinyl


Slightly untrue - Yes, they can be cheap against a solvent / latex machine, but you'd need to buy specialist vinyl's with a coating to except pigment inks of the Design Jets - These inks will not dry if you try to print onto standard vinyl media.

You will have to take this limitation into account - specially coated vinyl will be a lot more expensive, so will this make you cost effective in your market place?

Personally I'd test the market first by outsourcing to a trade printer, then look at the investment at a later date.
<<

1 Star Contributor

Posts: 45

Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2017 9:32 pm

Country: United Kingdom (uk)




Post Fri Aug 04, 2017 4:36 pm

Re: Considering Printing, Which Printer?

Thanks for the reply! I obviously hadn't done enough research!

Is there anything you could suggest in the lower price range for solvent/latex printers 24inch wide to work alongside the graphtec. The only issue I have with outsourcing would be turnaround time really due to certain marketplaces.
<<

User avatar

L-Gold Member
L-Gold Member

Posts: 1188

Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 7:59 pm





Post Fri Aug 04, 2017 5:16 pm

Re: Considering Printing, Which Printer?

Outsourcing printing is a pain, you tend not to design in full colour or simply not chase those jobs because you know it's a pain to outsource.

Buy a printer and your world changes. Printed banners, full colour images on vehicles. Jobs will come as most folk will think you already do it as a matter of course. In today's signmakers world 99.9% will have a printer.

Get the best you can afford, mimaki or Roland to name 2. Get a loan if you can't afford one, 2 small jobs a week will pay for the loan. You won't look back and after 6 months you'll wonder how you managed without one.
<<

User avatar

4 Star Contributor

Posts: 301

Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:31 pm

Country: United Kingdom (uk)




Post Fri Aug 04, 2017 6:03 pm

Re: Considering Printing, Which Printer?

Although I partly agree with Denise's advice for a sign maker, its a different business when selling on online marketplaces. Be careful, margins are now getting even tighter and your machine will need to do some work if you want to make it pay and remain price competitive.

Also your graphtec is too small you really need at least a 130 wide machine. Roland do a small printer....cant remember what its called....... which produces 610 wide print......speed wise its like watching paint dry apparently.
<<

User avatar

Premium Member
Premium Member

Posts: 3519

Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:17 am

Country: United Kingdom (uk)




Post Fri Aug 04, 2017 6:11 pm

Re: Considering Printing, Which Printer?

Your plotter doesn't have ARMS, so print & cut would be extremely inaccurate.

As Staff says, it'd be worth upgrading to a 1370mm plotter, and printer.
<<

5 Star Contributor

Posts: 585

Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2012 4:50 pm





Post Fri Aug 04, 2017 6:14 pm

Re: Considering Printing, Which Printer?

Roland do a small printer
BN-20 little desktop printer - search these forums for info.
<<

User avatar

Premium Member
Premium Member

Posts: 3519

Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:17 am

Country: United Kingdom (uk)




Post Fri Aug 04, 2017 6:45 pm

Re: Considering Printing, Which Printer?

IIRC the BN20 takes 500mm media, and is print & cut?
<<

User avatar

2 Star Contributor

Posts: 176

Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2015 3:19 pm

Country: United Kingdom (uk)




Post Fri Aug 04, 2017 6:56 pm

Re: Considering Printing, Which Printer?

David Hammond wrote:Your plotter doesn't have ARMS, so print & cut would be extremely inaccurate.


Are you sure? http://graphteccorp.com/imaging/ce6000/index.html
The ARMS is very accurate. I cut prints with no stroke/bleed at all and didn't miss a micron. Really impressed!
<<

User avatar

Premium Member
Premium Member

Posts: 8556

Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 10:43 am

Country: United Kingdom (uk)




Post Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:21 pm

Re: Considering Printing, Which Printer?

Colin Crabb wrote:
HP Design Jets as they can be picked up really cheap and can print on vinyl


Slightly untrue - Yes, they can be cheap against a solvent / latex machine, but you'd need to buy specialist vinyl's with a coating to except pigment inks of the Design Jets - These inks will not dry if you try to print onto standard vinyl media.

You will have to take this limitation into account - specially coated vinyl will be a lot more expensive, so will this make you cost effective in your market place?

Personally I'd test the market first by outsourcing to a trade printer, then look at the investment at a later date.


Colin, The HP Latex priters are also a Designjet ;-)

A designjet latex will print on most things. a designjet aqueous (such as Z2100 etc.) needs the coated media.
<<

5 Star Contributor

Posts: 585

Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2012 4:50 pm





Post Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:28 pm

Re: Considering Printing, Which Printer?

Colin, The HP Latex priters are also a Designjet ;-)
yup 100% correct Sir :blushing: , L20000 & L300 series are Latex - but there are not a cheap
designjet t520


Oh I wish you could buy Latex designjets for the price of the pigment T series machines ... would have saved use a fortune with the 3 we have here :lol:
<<

User avatar

Premium Member
Premium Member

Posts: 3519

Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:17 am

Country: United Kingdom (uk)




Post Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:21 pm

Re: Considering Printing, Which Printer?

George Neagu wrote:
David Hammond wrote:Your plotter doesn't have ARMS, so print & cut would be extremely inaccurate.


Are you sure? http://graphteccorp.com/imaging/ce6000/index.html
The ARMS is very accurate. I cut prints with no stroke/bleed at all and didn't miss a micron. Really impressed!


Well there you go! I always assumed the CE didn't have ARMS, and the FC did. I stand corrected. :blushing:
<<

1 Star Contributor

Posts: 45

Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2017 9:32 pm

Country: United Kingdom (uk)




Post Fri Aug 04, 2017 10:07 pm

Re: Considering Printing, Which Printer?

Thanks so much for all the replies and information. What is the opinion on leasing a printer/cutter. Just a quick browse around eBay (not the ideal place I know) and I found this:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mimaki-CJV30- ... SwlY1ZIBkT

Claiming that the leasing option is around £25 per week. Obviously this is a refurb. Also what is the opinion on refurbs if bought from a reputable place?

Alternatively I would be able to get a loan to fund one around this price bracket, the more I think about the more I see how many doors a printer would open for my artwork.

As previously said I work on a business to customer basis, rarely business to business. I don't operate as I sign writer so don't have that client base. I generally manufacture the artwork directly for retail in my own online shops and cut to order.
<<

1 Star Contributor

Posts: 45

Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2017 9:32 pm

Country: United Kingdom (uk)




Post Sun Aug 06, 2017 10:07 am

Re: Considering Printing, Which Printer?

Also are there any benefits to leasing over taking out a loan for one of these as a sole trader?

Once again appreciate advice!
<<

User avatar

Premium Member
Premium Member

Posts: 8338

Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2002 1:00 am





Post Sun Aug 06, 2017 10:35 pm

Re: Considering Printing, Which Printer?

I understand what you are saying about turn round time if you are using a trade only printer but another option might be to find someone local who has a printer & build a relationship with them, if your work is vastly different from what they do then they may not see you as competition.
Prices will be higher than a trade only service but turn round times should be quicker if they are local. Not much in it for you profit wise but it might allow you to start building that side of your business :lol:

Take notice of what Steff says, her business if not the same as yours is probably closer than most of the rest of us that have replied to this post.

I have 1 !/2 Encad 850's & a Mutoh Falcon 11 lying in my unit because the price of fixing them is really to high for the amount of work I would be able to use them for nowdays :lol: :lol: :lol:
<<

User avatar

Silver Member
Silver Member

Posts: 1507

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 9:36 am





Post Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:26 am

Re: Considering Printing, Which Printer?

Don't forget that you can also offer other print options for local businesses if you get a printer, just printing one off or small runs of posters can go a long way towards covering your running costs.

Steve
<<

1 Star Contributor

Posts: 45

Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2017 9:32 pm

Country: United Kingdom (uk)




Post Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:32 pm

Re: Considering Printing, Which Printer?

Thanks again everyone. Having looked at the market and prices, I think we are going to look to getting a "2nd User or manufacturer Refurb" as were trying to keep things below £6000.

Have been looking around and really like the look of some of the Mimaki Machines, I like the fact that they generally come with a the take up and stand and have only really read good things about them. Have read to stay away from the cjv30-60 due to media size not readily available in this size so look to at least a 30" printer.

Considering a MIMAKI CJV30-100 or similar, does anyone have any advise when buying used or refurb printers? Or a reputable place to buy from.

I've had a look at Granthams Ltd but they do all seem to be private used printers from what I can tell. Signmaster seem like they have a good little warranty package and they do deliver and install in there prices but tend to be a bit more expensive. Then there's signmakingandsupplies which looks like they have a large selection.

Thanks again!
<<

4 Star Contributor

Posts: 439

Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2016 11:54 am





Post Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:17 am

Re: Considering Printing, Which Printer?

Matthew Boulton wrote:Thanks again everyone. Having looked at the market and prices, I think we are going to look to getting a "2nd User or manufacturer Refurb" as were trying to keep things below £6000.

Have been looking around and really like the look of some of the Mimaki Machines, I like the fact that they generally come with a the take up and stand and have only really read good things about them. Have read to stay away from the cjv30-60 due to media size not readily available in this size so look to at least a 30" printer.

Considering a MIMAKI CJV30-100 or similar, does anyone have any advise when buying used or refurb printers? Or a reputable place to buy from.

I've had a look at Granthams Ltd but they do all seem to be private used printers from what I can tell. Signmaster seem like they have a good little warranty package and they do deliver and install in there prices but tend to be a bit more expensive. Then there's signmakingandsupplies which looks like they have a large selection.

Thanks again!


Aye still waiting to see my warranty. I can however tell you though that the warranty doesn't cover anything.

Most suppliers do second user products. Printmax and Grafityp do. CSL digital have a few I think.

We use a Roland. I don't know much about mimaki's but I heard you have to print registration marks for it to read before it cuts, sounds like a bit of a slow process.

When we bought the first machine we looked at all printers and mimaki seemed to have more expensive run costs, to no major benefit, from what I read.

We are now on Roland cover. They come out within 4 working days if something happens. This means less down time. I'd be look for similar personally, from any machine brand before making the purchase. Nothing worse than a 6k machine sat in a corner doing nothing for a few weeks waiting for someone to come and angry customers resulting in refunds or no payment.
<<

1 Star Contributor

Posts: 45

Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2017 9:32 pm

Country: United Kingdom (uk)




Post Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:17 pm

Re: Considering Printing, Which Printer?

Thanks for that. This would definitely something I would be interested in tried searching but can't really find anything about mimaki care plans.

Does anyone know if this is available? Or would you have to look at private printer maintenance businesses?
<<

User avatar

Premium Member
Premium Member

Posts: 1654

Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 12:04 am

Country: United Kingdom (uk)




Post Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:51 pm

Re: Considering Printing, Which Printer?

After the intitial 2 year warranty, you may be able to extend it with Hybrid, it probably depends on how
long it has been since it lapsed. I can recommend ATS (Stafford is on the boards), which is who we use.
<<

1 Star Contributor

Posts: 45

Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2017 9:32 pm

Country: United Kingdom (uk)




Post Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:17 pm

Re: Considering Printing, Which Printer?

Done a bit more research and it seems most people believe the Rolands to be more reliable. Think i'm going to look at getting a Versacamm sp300i or similar as I do like the idea of the direct care plan with Roland when buying a used printer.
<<

User avatar

1 Star Contributor

Posts: 40

Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2017 10:00 pm

Country: United Kingdom (uk)




Post Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:14 am

Re: Considering Printing, Which Printer?

From my other post I've mentioned doing the same recently moving from the cutting world to print and cut, I bought myself a Roland SG300 which is print and cut. Unable to get business funding I went with a personal loan repayments are £160 a month over 5 years, easily affordable. Best move I've made in ages and my workload had already increased. Hope this helps.
<<

4 Star Contributor

Posts: 439

Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2016 11:54 am





Post Fri Aug 11, 2017 4:20 pm

Re: Considering Printing, Which Printer?

Matthew Boulton wrote:Done a bit more research and it seems most people believe the Rolands to be more reliable. Think i'm going to look at getting a Versacamm sp300i or similar as I do like the idea of the direct care plan with Roland when buying a used printer.


We went for the VS 540 as its wider so give a lot more scope for printing and what possible but I was also told that bits will dry up fairly soon for the SP machines, although the "i" might be slightly newer.

Very happy with our machine. I know she is just an entry model but for what we do she powers through and I don't think we have an limits on what we can print or produce. So far anyway. As mentioned above payments are so low and the work that has come in for us there not really an issue.
<<

User avatar

Premium Member
Premium Member

Posts: 8556

Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 10:43 am

Country: United Kingdom (uk)




Post Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:31 pm

Re: Considering Printing, Which Printer?

Colin Crabb wrote:
Colin, The HP Latex priters are also a Designjet ;-)
yup 100% correct Sir :blushing: , L20000 & L300 series are Latex - but there are not a cheap
designjet t520


Oh I wish you could buy Latex designjets for the price of the pigment T series machines ... would have saved use a fortune with the 3 we have here :lol:


Sorry Colin, I hadn't noticed that they mentioned a T520 initially. My first printer was actually an aqueous Designjet Z2100, I used to print onto coated self adhesive media and then laminate with a small 720 easymount laminator, was perfect for churning out builders boards and small pull-ups etc, not terribly expensive to run and for the most part trouble free. You couldn't rely on it to cut exactly the same as plotted work though, I once printed a design and put plotted reflective lettering on certain areas, the sizing was way out. Contour cutting was also of course not really possible.

I don't think I could be persuaded to go with a solvent machine, the Latex just seems to be ahead on all points important to me..
Front loading - important due to space available, ie, no access to rear of machine required.
Dry printing - ready to lam right away, or even very heavy ink loads within an hour or so - again a space saver as no prints left laying about to de-gas,
user exchangeable parts - heads, etc. cheap and easy to do.

I wouldn't say it's a disadvantage with no onboard cutting either, if it was available on latex I wouldn't bother, as you know we can print, lam and cut in order, at each step the printer is still printing, usually laminating one while another is in the cutter - if needs arise due to heavy workloads!
<<

2 Star Contributor

Posts: 124

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 8:47 am

Country: United Kingdom (uk)




Post Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:14 pm

Re: Considering Printing, Which Printer?

I thought id never say this after printing on a HP latex L26500 for the past 7 years, but ive recently relocated and am now printing on a Roland VP-540 and if it was my money id stick with the Roland only reason for me would the print is so much more vibrant than the Latex, yes i know all the issues about degassing but if you plan ahead not really a problem.......

Return to Vinyl



Who is online

Registered users:
No registered users

 

About
Contact
Board Rules
Membership
Terms & Conditions

 

Signapp - iPhone & iPad
Signapp - Android
Vehicle Wrap Training
Vinyl Application Training
Vehicle Wrap Accreditation
UK Sign Group
Site Membership
Advertising
Videos
ISA-UK

 

 

Who is Online

In total there are 47 users online ::
2 registered, 0 hidden and 45 guests
[based on past 5 minutes]

Most users ever online was
370 on Tue Aug 28, 2018 5:02 pm

Registered users:
No registered users

Copyright © 2000 - 2019 Robert Lambie