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Ink overflowing overnight

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Post Wed Sep 21, 2016 9:09 am

Ink overflowing overnight

I recently changed to 440ml cartridges on my Versacamm SP300 (AKA B&P Cadet). Previously I was using a bulk ink system with smaller cartridges.

Yesterday I ran out of magenta ink so replaced it with a brand new cartridge. I knew the yellow was getting low but it was not yet due for replacement.

This morning I came into work to discover the waste collection bottle had overflowed, and the yellow cartridge was now empty along with a loss of some of the new magenta ink I had fitted yesterday. Yellow and magenta share the same head so there is some connection there. I'm just not sure what happened to cause the ink overflow/loss?

Any ideas?
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Post Wed Sep 21, 2016 9:39 am

Re: Ink overflowing overnight

Inside the caps must have touched the print head allowing the ink to wick away over night.
Check your caps and replace with new.

SC
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Post Wed Sep 21, 2016 9:55 am

Re: Ink overflowing overnight

Thanks Sean
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Post Wed Sep 21, 2016 10:58 am

Re: Ink overflowing overnight

Sorry to hear this Phill,

If the pipes in the waste bottle touch the wast ink in the waste bottle the pressure caused will siphon ink from the cart
If yellow /magenta share the same waste pipe that could explain it.

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Post Wed Sep 21, 2016 12:56 pm

Re: Ink overflowing overnight

I seem to be getting a constant flow of ink through the heads (both of them). When I unpark the heads I can see droplets forming as the ink graduallyseeps through. I've never noticed this before when cleaning. Is this normal?
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Post Wed Sep 21, 2016 1:52 pm

Re: Ink overflowing overnight

Possible damper issue.

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Post Wed Sep 21, 2016 2:04 pm

Re: Ink overflowing overnight

The only thing I can think of is that there is somehow a positive air pressure in a cart......I can't think of anything else that would cause ink droplets to form.

Hopefully Stafford will be along soon.

John
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Post Wed Sep 21, 2016 3:16 pm

Re: Ink overflowing overnight

Phil when the drain down over night, new capping stations normally sorts the problem. It would be the first thing to try, you do get a some ink flow during cleaning etc hence why a wiper is used. Before looking elsewhere do the capping stations.

Kev
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Post Wed Sep 21, 2016 4:48 pm

Re: Ink overflowing overnight

Thanks for the good advice guys. I have ordered new capping stations
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Post Wed Sep 21, 2016 7:22 pm

Re: Ink overflowing overnight

as said cap tops definate posibility also if the tank was quite full and the end of the waiste pipes come into contact with the waiste ink it will then syphon more ink out of the carts

just a note as 440 carts last a long time best they are shaken once in a while especialy black
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Post Thu Sep 22, 2016 5:42 pm

Re: Ink overflowing overnight

I'd say pump. I've not seen it on Roland machines before as they run a different pump (or at least the later ones do). On the JV3 (which uses the same head setup and the same pump as the early Roland), the Epson style pumps would occasionally not lock off properly and syphon the ink into the waste tank. If you can put up a picture of you pump I can tell you if it's an Epson style pump or the later style Roland sub-pump.

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Post Fri Sep 23, 2016 8:39 am

Re: Ink overflowing overnight

This is the type of pump fitted
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Post Fri Sep 23, 2016 8:42 am

Re: Ink overflowing overnight

Ah, right. Not an Epsom type pump then. It could still be at fault but not as likely. I would probably put a new genuine pump and all dampers on and be done with it. It will pay for itself ink empty ink carts before long.

Stafford.
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Post Fri Sep 23, 2016 9:57 am

Re: Ink overflowing overnight

Thanks for the advice. I haven't had any further problems since the other day when this fitst happened which was after fitting a brand new full cartridge when the others were almost empty. Can't help but think there's a link there? I have ordered new capping stations as already suggested and expect these to arrive today. Will change the dampers and pump if I get any further issues.
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Post Mon Oct 03, 2016 1:25 pm

Re: Ink overflowing overnight

I believe I have now got to the root cause of this and thought I would post the answer for future reference

Last week I changed the capping stations as suggested. All seemed well until I came in this morning to discover another leakage of ink over the weekend. Fortunately I had taken Staffords advice and ordered in a spare pump so fitted this in place this morning. The new pump prevents any ink flowing when it is stationary whereas the old pump did allow a flow of ink to take place by gravity even when stationary. So now I am confident that the problem has been resolved. Thanks to everyone especially Stafford who was right all along.

Note - An easy way to check your pump is to fill the capping stations with cleaning fluid. If the pump is working properly it should prevent any ink from flowing out of the capping station - whereas a faulty pump (like mine was) allows the fluid to seep away.
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Post Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:42 pm

Re: Ink overflowing overnight

Well done Phill, and thanks for keeping the post up to date.

Hopefully you'll have many more years of problem free printing ahead of you :smiles:

Stafford
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Post Fri Oct 14, 2016 3:05 pm

Re: Ink overflowing overnight

Seems I was a bit premature thinking this was now fixed. Since my last post I have had another episode of leaking ink when the printer was unused for a day. It seems to me when the printer is in use , in between prints everything is fine and there is no flow of ink under gravity. However, once the printer sits unused for more than 24 hours a flow eventually becomes established which is a steady drip that only stops once the cleaning cycle has been run and the ink has been drawn away from the heads in the capping station.

I have now had to resort to clamping the outlet pipe whenever the printer is out of use for any more than eight hours to prevent an ink flow becoming established and more ink being wasted.

I am at a loss to understand what is causing this. I have changed the capping station and the pump. The only thing I haven't changed is the dampers (and I can't really see how these would cause an ink flow)? There is nothing else between the ink cartridges and the waste bottle to change.

This all originated after I changed from using bulk ink to 440ml cartidges which makes me think now it must be the cartridges that are somehow allowing a build up of ink pressure in the system to then initiate a flow of ink under gravity
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Post Fri Oct 14, 2016 3:15 pm

Re: Ink overflowing overnight

Weird!!

I can't really suggest anything else without looking at it I'm afraid. We do bulk and cartridge systems for those machines and theoretically there is no difference between the two. Unlike the JV33 type of setup where you have a board fitted to open both valves at the same time. Have you considered an alternative ink supplier? Maybe buy in one set of alternatives and see if anything changes in the time you're running them? Like you say, there's nothing really to go wrong between the head and cartridge. Unless it's something to do with the needle in the back of the cartridge assembly?

Stafford
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Post Fri Oct 14, 2016 3:51 pm

Re: Ink overflowing overnight

All four cartridges are emptying so all four needles would have had to develop the fault at the same time. I will revert back to the bulk ink system to see if this problem continues. I really can't see any other possible cause apart from the cartridges. These are much longer (440ml) than the bulk ink carts (and the 220ml carts used prior to bulk ink) but I cant' see how that would cause any additional pressure in the system since the head of pressure is determined by the ink level and not the ink volume?
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Post Fri Oct 14, 2016 3:56 pm

Re: Ink overflowing overnight

The only other possibility I can think of is could the new ink be a lower viscocity than the previous inks allowing it to flow more freely?
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Post Fri Oct 14, 2016 4:13 pm

Re: Ink overflowing overnight

Phill Fenton wrote:The only other possibility I can think of is could the new ink be a lower viscocity than the previous inks allowing it to flow more freely?


Yeah, it's possible. But I can't imagine the viscosity would be that much different that it would cause all the inks to dump over night. And good point about the needles :smiles:

Let me know if I can help with anything.

Stafford
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Post Fri Oct 14, 2016 4:46 pm

Re: Ink overflowing overnight

Thanks Stafford - This is really puzzling me.

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