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Laminates - What do you use?

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Post Fri Aug 05, 2016 10:29 am

Laminates - What do you use?

Just looking around at monomeric laminates that offer UV protection. What do the list members use that have given good results.
Thanks
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Post Fri Aug 05, 2016 11:15 am

Re: Laminates - What do you use?

Hi MIke,
We use Metamark MetaGuard 300 for our Monomeric vinyl, which is the matching laminate for the MD3 monomeric vinyl. No complaints, works a treat :thumbsup: . Won't recommend mixing different brands.

Seun
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Post Fri Aug 05, 2016 11:18 am

Re: Laminates - What do you use?

What's it for Mike? A lot of people will use a laminate that is matched to the vinyl they are printing, what sort of lifespan are you looking for ?
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Post Fri Aug 05, 2016 11:27 am

Re: Laminates - What do you use?

Been using Metamark, but another price increase on the way, so looking around at options.
Mainly flat signs outdoor, 3 year with UV.
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Post Fri Aug 05, 2016 1:07 pm

Re: Laminates - What do you use?

I too wouldn't use a mis-matched brand of digi and laminate.. Not on anything other than temp signs anyway.

I think you'll find price increases are across the board on all manufacturers.

Hugh
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Post Fri Aug 05, 2016 1:32 pm

Re: Laminates - What do you use?

Ditto Hugh's comment but 6.5% is quite an increase.

By the way tho did you vote in or out in the recent referendum? :wink: :smiles:
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Post Sat Aug 06, 2016 5:22 pm

Re: Laminates - What do you use?

Used LG laminates they do a monomeric & polymeric really good prices at the time they, very hard wearing and he Matt lam gave a very good appearance

Kev
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Post Sun Aug 07, 2016 3:07 am

Re: Laminates - What do you use?

I always match the laminate to the print media. some times you can mix on flat temp signs and the like but it is best practice to use same as the finish is not always the same on laminates. not a big deal on single signs but tiling jobs etc it will stand out like a sore thumb.

as for price increases, we are already seeing many suppliers introducing increases, most if not all will follow.
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Post Sun Aug 07, 2016 8:57 pm

Re: Laminates - What do you use?

Thanks for the reply Keith, only reply to actually mention an alternative product.

For me using Brexit as the reason to increase prices seems a little spurious, second price rise from Metamark in the last few months, stating the reason is because a significant increase in raw materials costs, so once things settle down and these costs possibly decrease and stablise, will the prices be reflect this, I doubt it. Call me on old cynic
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Post Sun Aug 07, 2016 9:08 pm

Re: Laminates - What do you use?

Try Orajet 3164, although IIRC its a water based adhesive not solvent.

On the whole Metamark are by far one of the better suppliers we deal with, and we're all in the same boat with price increases, either absorb them or pass it on to your customer.
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Post Sun Aug 07, 2016 9:12 pm

Re: Laminates - What do you use?

David
Orajet is not a Laminate & has no UV protection as far as i know

Kev
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Post Sun Aug 07, 2016 9:24 pm

Re: Laminates - What do you use?

I'm not sure Kev, but you're correct Orajet is a digital vinyl, we only use Orajet for short term, unlaminated work. I just assumed a matching laminate would be available.

One thing to note is Metamark are now advising MD3 is a 5 year vinyl & lam & MD5 a 7year. So 3164 isn't a like for like.
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Post Mon Aug 08, 2016 10:29 am

Re: Laminates - What do you use?

Second vote for LG. Their LD2700 and matching lam LP2812G or M are a very good option and very hard wearing plus the LP 2812 works very well as clear.

I've used metamark vinyls for a while but I'm unable to use their mono or poly laminates as I've had huge problems with it separating from the vinyl with black backgrounds or large areas of dark print and despite promising to look into it their only reply was that unofficially hp admits that their latex range does require a degassing period even though I've never had a problem with any other laminates in the last three years of using latex.
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Post Mon Aug 08, 2016 12:13 pm

Re: Laminates - What do you use?

Kevin Busby wrote:Second vote for LG. Their LD2700 and matching lam LP2812G or M are a very good option and very hard wearing plus the LP 2812 works very well as clear.

I've used metamark vinyls for a while but I'm unable to use their mono or poly laminates as I've had huge problems with it separating from the vinyl with black backgrounds or large areas of dark print and despite promising to look into it their only reply was that unofficially hp admits that their latex range does require a degassing period even though I've never had a problem with any other laminates in the last three years of using latex.


Hi Kevin

Just a point regarding Latex prints and adhesion of laminates. There are currently 3 versions of HP Latex ink on the market V1 (oldest/original - L25500 series printers) V2 (L26500/260 series) and most recent V3 (L360 etc). Each version has had slight variances to the ink and all vary with the amount of "sweating" that occurs after printing. This is most noticeable of heavy ink loads especially Black or dark colours and certainly has caused issue for a number of laminates from most of the film manufacturers - Best advice is to outgas any Latex print with solid areas of dense colour for at least 24 hours .... This is due to the fact that with full coverage of dense colours the water has to come out of the ink - the initial cure will skin the ink but the water trapped under the skin will sweat/oil on the surface for a day or two afterwards when large solid areas of dark colours are printed. This doesn't cause the same issues as a solvent ink being trapped and making the film sticky/stretchy but will effect adhesion levels of some laminates.

Stuart
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Post Mon Aug 08, 2016 12:29 pm

Re: Laminates - What do you use?

Stuart Taylor wrote:Hi Kevin

Just a point regarding Latex prints and adhesion of laminates. There are currently 3 versions of HP Latex ink on the market V1 (oldest/original - L25500 series printers) V2 (L26500/260 series) and most recent V3 (L360 etc). Each version has had slight variances to the ink and all vary with the amount of "sweating" that occurs after printing. This is most noticeable of heavy ink loads especially Black or dark colours and certainly has caused issue for a number of laminates from most of the film manufacturers - Best advice is to outgas any Latex print with solid areas of dense colour for at least 24 hours .... This is due to the fact that with full coverage of dense colours the water has to come out of the ink - the initial cure will skin the ink but the water trapped under the skin will sweat/oil on the surface for a day or two afterwards when large solid areas of dark colours are printed. This doesn't cause the same issues as a solvent ink being trapped and making the film sticky/stretchy but will effect adhesion levels of some laminates.

Stuart


Hi Stuart

Thanks very much for your comments its good to know its not just them thats affected and I do agree about the sweaty prints when using solid dark colours as ive noticed this a number of times especially when printing on vinyl, its not so badly affected on banners and roller material. I'm using V3 inks on a 310 but I have to say even when leaving prints for 24/48hrs Im still getting similar problems. I had one customer who I was doing some vehicle graphics for and since there was only a small amount I decided to print and cut on MD5, I printed them and customer rang to say he was not sure so I left them for 3/4 Days before getting the go ahead and laminating them and cutting. The day after fitting customer said he did not like the colour he had chosen (solid Black) and wished to change so I went back 3 days after fitting them and on ever graphic the laminate came straight off whilst leaving the vinyl firmly attached to the vehicle with no signs of laminate ever being used :shocked: I'm just glad customer changed his mind otherwise it would have been an embarrassment the first time he pressure washed the vehicle.

Anyway apologies did not intend to side track the thread

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