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Freestanding Sign Installation snag, advice please?

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Post Thu Mar 03, 2016 7:07 pm

Freestanding Sign Installation snag, advice please?

Long story cut short.

Had a sign made, and had to use different installers to usual to install the sign, client wasnt happy and the sign was removed.

Had extentions made for the posts, return to site to refit, only to find the original installers removed and disposed of the posts.

I suspect they couln't dig the holes to the required depth, and cut them down, a little too much, hence the clients complaint.

It was agreed to get new legs manufactured with a base drilled plate for fixing into a concrete foundation.

We supplied the client the dimensions for the foundation to be dug, and the size of the concrete base.

Fitters arrived on site today and decided not install the sign as they're concerned the concrete isn't anywhere near the specified depth, and had a soft surface.

Client is adament it is the correct depth, and has done 'test drills', and their groundworks guys assured him it will be ok.

So how best to proceed?

I think tomorrow we will conduct our own test drills with fixings, and if we're not satified hand the sign over and get them to install if they're sure its OK.

Any advice greatly appreciated, and I've learnt a few lessons these past few weeks!
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Post Thu Mar 03, 2016 9:53 pm

Re: Installation snag

I do a lot of sub-fittings for companies all over the place.

I document EVERYTHING. Eg. Photo of area. Photo of holes with tape measure down them. Photo of poles in place. Photo of sign front and back.

Clients don't expect it, let's all parties in on the act and nothing to hide.

It might seem ridiculous but at the end of install I'll send off a full set of photos and a report detailing any snags and remedies, amount of concrete used...blah, blah

Recommend you instigate that as a procedure for your fitters...also a reason I don't farm out my work as frankly any time I've had other people fit my stuff it's fallen off the wall as they only used half the screws I supplied.

As far as your current predicament - not far off with what I'd do. Test it and play it by ear and don't fit if you can't be 100% sure it's all fit for purpose or you take responsibility for doing it right. Just don't get in a hole financially.

Dave
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Post Fri Mar 04, 2016 9:33 am

Re: Installation snag

The guys we use for fitting usually have been doing it for years, and are very meticulous (verging on obsessive) and will only do the job right.

Today's snow isn't helping when I want to go an look at the concrete myself and get the drill out, may postpone until Monday.
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Post Fri Mar 04, 2016 2:44 pm

Re: Installation snag

David
if you have bad weather up your end i would be worrying about how well the concrete has cured, in the few days its been poured. Below 4.5 degrees slows it right down so setting expansion bolts in it too early may cause failure

Kev
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Post Fri Mar 04, 2016 2:46 pm

Re: Installation snag

Yes that's the excuse the client gave for the top being soft. Will pop down and check it is the depth we asked for, and then give it a week to cure more.
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Post Sat Mar 05, 2016 8:06 pm

Re: Installation snag

What size of sign are we talking?

If installers cut down poles because they were not able to dig deeper, i would be well pi**ed off they hadn't called me to even discuss this issue before deciding to chop up poles and go ahead with the installation.

Do your sub-contract guys dig with cat-scan, spades, pinch bar, jack-hammer drill etc?
if it's solid concrete then only real option is a diamond tipped core cutter. all added costs to the install...

as david says, there should be pictures and details of completed work and a snag list at least, but if any snags, it should be reported and allow you to make decisions. I hope you did not pay them!
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Post Sat Mar 05, 2016 8:32 pm

Re: Freestanding Sign Installation snag, advice please?

Sign is 2000x600mm, elevated at 2200mm to the bottom of the sign.

Asked for a concrete foundation @ 600x600x3000mm at with a back fill of 600mm on top of the concrete.

First installers arent our usual fitters, our usual fitters actually have a brain and do query anything their not sure of, and ensure the client is happy before proceeding.

Trouble with the first fitters is its our word against theirs, despite an invoice saying I had 4m posts, yet the sign the sign didnt clear a 2000mm fence.
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Post Sun Mar 06, 2016 1:30 pm

Re: Freestanding Sign Installation snag, advice please?

David
who specified that foundation

Kev
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Post Sun Mar 06, 2016 1:40 pm

Re: Freestanding Sign Installation snag, advice please?

Our fitters specified that as a suitable base, trouble is we suspect the client has cut corners on it.
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Post Sun Mar 06, 2016 4:19 pm

Re: Freestanding Sign Installation snag, advice please?

David
if i'm reading your measurements correct H=600mm x W=600mm x Length=3mtrs at a bottom depth of 1.2 mtrs made up of 600mm block & 600mm back fill. This seems very excessive for size sign was it being dug with a digger because thats over a cubic meter of spoil

Kev
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Post Sun Mar 06, 2016 4:50 pm

Re: Freestanding Sign Installation snag, advice please?

Over engineered it, as it's isolated on the side of a disued quayside in Manchester, and is a bit of wind tunnel.

Client arranged the dig out and concrete, but the fitters aren't convinced its deep enough to drill into for thr bolts to fix the base plates.

Will find out tomorrow hopefully.
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Post Tue Mar 08, 2016 3:58 pm

Re: Freestanding Sign Installation snag, advice please?

If you think that's bad, try this.

We made a couple of huge directional signs for a Client, I wont mention who even tho I refuse to ever work with them again, they were satin st/st panels 1.2mm thick, we needed almost a whole 3000 x 1500 sheet for the face & 1 for the back. They were connected to sizable satin tubes @ 3000mm long. They asked for a couple of cross beams only at the bottom of each leg only. I questioned that they need a full cage for these to be fitted to as they were stupidly heavy. Instead they got a fitting company to dig down in the mud & try to cement them in place! As we all know, concrete takes time to set, a very long time to cure. They didn't understand why the signs almost collapsed. They were found the next morning with the face panel almost on the floor. Each sheet weighs approx 45kgs! At least you have cages & a concrete base which is better than that. So glad we don't install
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Post Tue Mar 08, 2016 4:04 pm

Re: Freestanding Sign Installation snag, advice please?

We're not installing.... the client is taking responsibility for it, as it's not concrete as I know it they've put in the hole.

The ground works guys who did it for them are going to install as they're confident it's a solid base.

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