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Vinyl failure - comments please

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Post Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:08 pm

Vinyl failure - comments please

Hi All

A very quick basic background to the job;

We were asked to install some digital prints supplied by the customer on to an internal painted wall. They sent me a photo of the previous prints falling off the wall so wanted me to go and apply a new set of prints.

We went and applied the prints as per their instruction/installation sheet, they were unlaminated prints and there were no markings on the back of the vinyl so not sure what it was but within 24hrs these prints also peeled off the wall.

They contacted me to advise me they were peeling off the wall and therefore were not paying the invoice until I put up a new set. I advised them the vinyl is not suitable and most likely due to the paint used on the wall or possible humidity issues in the wall as it was in a salon type area which was apparently very warm.

I advised them to use a different vinyl but they said the exact same vinyls were being sent out again and I needed to re-fit these or wasn't getting paid. At this point I realised that even if I did it again and it peeled off again because nothing was changed and so would have the same effect as last that I wasn't going to get paid for either installs.

I proposed to them that I was very happy to go and re-install another set if they paid for the first installation and if the vinyl stayed up then great but if it failed again then I would have to charge for the 2nd installation as well. I don't think that's unreasonable for me after being told I'm not getting paid because it's peeled off and knowing it will happen again as it's the same vinyl.

So they then came back and tell me that they have shown pictures of the peeling vinyl to some other sign and installation company who have confirmed that it's failing due to installation :o How can you tell from a photo? I mean am I missing something here? Anyway they said they are not paying unless I do it.

So I said OK I'll do it before payment but I wanted it in writing that if the 2nd installation failed as well and proving it's not an installation issue then they need to pay for both installs, they wouldn't agree to that and said they are now going else where and they won't be paying us and are happy to go to court over it.

He even asked why I was writing such long emails about such a small job but every time I was trying my hardest to explain to them that;

A) the vinyl was installed as per their directions
B) you can't take their word for an installation failure from looking at a photo
C) offering them suggestions and ways to resolve it
etc
etc
etc

but they never addressed the real issue and just said they were not paying based on what these signs people told them from the photos they saw.

So am I missing the plot here or something?

I honestly am left bewildered by the whole thing as it seems quiet ridiculous what they have said and the advice they have received about the installation.

I would love to hear your thoughts on this.

Warren
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Post Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:32 pm

i think you have been too reasonable with them
they supplied the kit
and you fitted
bill them and persevere for payment
and keep an eye on the job and see what happens
if they dont pay tell all local signmakers

sound like t***s to me

derek
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Post Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:55 pm

So first signmaker applies decals and they fall off.

Second signmaker applies the same decals and they fall off...

And they want you to apply another set...

Cut your loses and tell them b@lls.
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Post Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:51 pm

walk away mate. You are on a hiding to nothing.

If the wall was painted with a teflon additive, nothing will stick.

They haven't worked out, as has been said, the first guys installation failed, yours failed, and no doubt the next will fail. The stupidity of some people amaze me.

I'd insist on a hi tac material to be used or I wouldn't attempt it. No easy apply bubble free stuff either.

Most manufacturers have a wall version of their products.

Ask the client the brand name, and ring the wholesaler and put the question to them - it is suitable for walls in a humid environment.

If they say no, you can argue that it is not fit for purpose and they will lose any court case.

Hope it works out for you, but I'd not be doing it again until they answer the questions and give you time to research the answers.
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Post Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:39 am

Shane Drew wrote:walk away mate.

Ask the client the brand name, and ring the wholesaler and put the question to them - it is suitable for walls in a humid environment.

If they say no, you can argue that it is not fit for purpose and they will lose any court case.
.


I'm totally with Shane as above, someone must know what vinyl was supplied,
I certainly wouldn't go and do it again with the same stuff even if they did pay me.
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Post Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:46 am

You were contracted to install vinyl they supplied to the wall wanted it on. You have fulfilled your side of the deal.

If it was a B2B deal, then I'm sure consumer rights etc aren't applicable (they're a business not a consumer)

It would be similar to a decorator painting your living room with paint you supplied, then you saying it's the wrong colour. Regardless of that fact, the decorator's done what he was asked.

Send them the invoice, chase the debt, and if they don't pay (and it's worth it) issue a money claim online against them. At the very least you can charge 8.5% interest and some compensation. Or just put it down to another lesson learnt.

It boils my (chat.) when customers try it on like this.
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Post Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:55 am

I'd go with David, chase it legally, even if it's only £100. you cannot be held liable for materials you aren't being asked to supply, end of, it's not like it's something you can control - like a sign bolted to a wall.

If they refuse you could park your van outside with a big message on the side requesting they pay their bill and leave the van there until they pay up.

though of course you could send in all your females for a top dollar hair do and colour, then tell em it's a rubbish job and not being paid for!
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Post Fri Feb 07, 2014 11:18 am

Hugh Potter wrote:
If they refuse you could park your van outside with a big message on the side requesting they pay their bill and leave the van there until they pay up.

though of course you could send in all your females for a top dollar hair do and colour, then tell em it's a rubbish job and not being paid for!


That is what I would do too Hugh. I drove round with lettering on the L200 for 6 weeks until the dealer sorted the problem. People like these p!ss me right off.

But one thing is for sure, there is no way I would be applying anything else for them whether I go paid or not.
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Post Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:10 pm

Wouldn't be surprised if it was cheap prints off of ebay, but would still like to know why they didn't stick.

Like shane said, it could be the paint on the walls. I would have tried a scrap of my own vinyl to test the paint.

Sometimes if your not out of pocket on a job like this its better to just walk away rather than getting stressed with people like that.
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Post Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:58 am

I agree chase them for payment - we are allways wary of fitting products made by others unless material clearly identified etc.
Part of the problem is likely to be salon related we hate installing window graphics in salons as allways a problem to stick - i think it must be something they use in salons hairspray possibly that causes adhesion problems
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Post Sat Feb 08, 2014 3:00 am

I would pursue them for payment as well, in the past I would have just shrugged my shoulders & accepted the fact that they weren't going to pay me but now I am trying to do things a little better. Chasing up payments is just a part of that.

I would have checked what the graphics were before installing them as well, walked away from quite a few vehicle type jobs because the customer had bought cheap vinyl graphics from ebay which weren't suitable for the job.
Have to agree with you about the photos as well Warren, got no idea how another sign company could look at some pictures & state that it's a fitting error.
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Post Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:43 am

Hi

Thanks for all the feedback, sorry moving house and no internet at home amd busy in the office so apologies for late reply.

I have since been down to check it as they were having a 3rd set installed by somebody else so wanted to go see if that has failed too but think they are now changing the vinyl, they said it was being done on Saturday and I went in today (Tuesday) and there was nothing on the wall so either it's not done yet or the 3rd set was put up and also failed so may have missed my chance for more evidence.

I am going to persue them mainly out of principle, if they had of accepted the fact and listened to my advice I would gladly have re done it for them but they wanted to play the blame game and point the fingers at me instead of where the real problem was so why should I let them get away with it, it's not right and if I don't persue it then it will drive me mad with rage (hot) :evil:

I'll keep you posted.

cheers again

Warren

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