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UKSB launch Vehicle Wrap Training & Accreditation course

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.News

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Post Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:17 pm

UKSB launch Vehicle Wrap Training & Accreditation course

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Uksignboards.com to launch Independant advanced vinyl application training and accreditation courses throughout the UK & Ireland.

Uksignboards.com will soon launch advanced vinyl application training and accreditation courses throughout the UK & Ireland via its very own “Touring Unit”, a converted and fully customised 44ft artic trailer unit, sporting its own lecture room, complete with 6 computer terminals & Plasma TV.

Rob Lambie explains…
Having this customised touring unit really ticks all the boxes for everyone concerned.
For us, it allows us to maintain a consistent standard of training in comfortable surroundings.
whilst the sign maker can take full advantage of huge savings due to the extra costs incurred by attending similar courses which require long periods of travel, travel costs, food, hotel accommodation, staff down time due to travelling the day prior , as well as the time off required attending the actual course.

Vinyl application & vehicle wrap training:-
Vinyl Training Courses will be set at various levels from advanced vinyl application, window manifestation, box truck wrapping and vehicle wrapping.

Accreditation:-
The option of “staff accreditation” will also be available. Where successful candidates will be awarded accreditation based on their performance.
Those successful will be added to the very first network of approved vinyl applicators in the UK. Furthermore, those skilful enough to become part of our network will have their skills promoted via the UKSB Sign Toolbar and the UKSB mobile app device, “Signapp”.

The Sign Toolbar has been downloaded and installed on over 2500 computers located within the UK alone and we expect to double that number of installations with our phone app. Therefore there will be plenty of opportunity for the relevant individual or company to market themselves and quickly recoup the course fee.
As a result, Sign makers will be able to easily find skilled vinyl application technicians by location throughout the UK and Ireland, via their mobile phone or their computers toolbar “within seconds”, and have the peace of mind that the individuals are capable of carrying out the work on their behalf. Never before has this been possible!

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vehicle-wrap-wrapping-wrapped-vinyl-application-uk-sign-group-truck-uk-trainining-accreditation.jpg (36.21 KiB) Viewed 22914 times

Lambie adds…
Our daily business needs have changed dramatically since the birth of the Internet.
Sign business’s large and small, now obtain work from all over the UK via their websites, sign forums and more. Having an “approved network” readily available will prove invaluable to them.
Unfortunately, The Internet also has its negatives and has produced a new growing breed of cowboy sign maker promoting inferior budget priced vehicle livery, as well as poorly fitted vehicle wraps using the wrong material which forms a low opinion on wraps by the general public as well as devaluing our trade at an alarming rate.
I believe that being able to show our customers that we as a company, or individual, have been accredited at a high level of installation skill, have great knowledge of the products available to us and are recognised members of the UKSGa network will have a positive effect on the potential conversion from an inquiry to a sale.

Another unique aspect of our Accreditation courses are, “you can fail”. Simply paying your fee and completing the accreditation course, does not guarantee a pass!
The general line of thought by sign makers is that because they go on a wrapping course, “which 8 out of 10 times are nothing more than an introduction to a supplier’s media”, automatically gives them the right to now promote themselves as vehicle wrappers. Wrong, this will not be the case. If you want to be accredited, your skill set must be worthy of it. It is that simple…


A quick recap on our benefits...

* Local training
* Trained by some of the best tutors within our trade.
* Comfortable, fully customised training facilities.
* The chance to become part of the UK’s only network of elite vinyl applicators.
* The chance to recoup all your tuition costs by being freely promoted on our toolbar and mobile phone application, Signapp.
* No extra costs in lengthy travel expenses
* No extra costs in Hotel and food fees
* No extra days required travelling to and from the training source.
* Be part of the elite vinyl technician group within our trade.


Courses available will be dictated by the demand in each location.
Locations with a higher demand will be serviced first, so please, if you wish to attend one of our courses, register your interest now....

To register your interest CLICK HERE




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Since this news has been posted, we have had various emails & pm's from folk with questions relating to our courses. Ansewers to these questions have been listed below.


General questions answered:

No, you do not need to be a UKSG member.
No you do not have to be registered on uksignboards.com.
Anyone can book a place for training or an accreditation course.
Just complete the “Enquirey form here” and we will come back to you once we have confirmed the unit’s route and dates for each area.


Vehicle wrapping or advanced vinyl application is set over two full days.
The accreditation course will be one full day.

The maximum amount of people allowed on each course is six.
The unit has purposely been kitted out for this amount of people, with dedicated hands on areas for everyone, as well as six computers within the lecture room.

If a company has 6 members of staff or more, wanting wrap training and accreditation. Then yes, we can actually park up at your premises.
If parking a truck of this size is not possible, we can arrange a place very close by.
The truck has full on-board powering facilities, so it can sit pretty much anywhere.


Accreditation:

Accreditation is awarded to “the company” based on a single employee.
Each employee to pass, the company is awarded a certificate with the employees photograph on it.
The employee is awarded with a plastic photographic ID card, stating he/she is certified at whatever level they have been awarded.

The employee is then listed / promoted within the network on the UKSB Sign toolbar and also on the mobile phone app. Their photographic listing will also be branded with the Companies logo and contact information.
Having a photographic certificate, photographic ID card and also photographic toolbar & signapp listings, helps ensure the person turning up is actually the person certified to do so.

Listings on either the toolbar or phone app, will be listed by geographical “region”.

If a sign maker commissions a certified technician to carry out work on their behalf.
The sign maker also has the facility to leave feedback based on a rating system.
A bit like when you buy from someone on eBay or Amazon!
Having a rating system helps build confidence in the people looking to sub work out.
For instance…
I need work carried out in London. I lift my phone app, look at the index by region and instantly presented with 10 accredited technicians. I can then look at each listing to see who has the best feedback rating. This helps me narrow down my search quickly.


As mentioned, the “company” is awarded the accreditation based on the employee.
If an employee leaves your company, it is up to you to retain their card. However, a quick email to us will have the employee removed from the network instantly. So will no longer exist On the toolbar or the phone app. But, that also means the company losses its accreditation, because they no longer have the qualified staff.

Yes, the employee in question can then re-apply for accreditation and re-sit the exam. But they then do so paying out of their own pocket, not yours!
If they pass, they will then be re-listed within the network. But, regardless to them possibley having had a very high rating before, they now go back to zero rating, and must now earn their rank at their own expence.




Further answers listed below in reply to "accreditation" being unfair to staff once they leave their employer.
To read all the comments made so far, please scroll down further, there are also several pages to this post thread.


The wrap accreditation system is being setup for registered sign companies to “invest” in becoming part of. The successful applicants will be given recognition by being listed in our online directory and phone app. As well as documentation and Cards to present to customers.

The accreditation listing will show the sign companies logo and full company contact details ie. they booked the training spot and paid our fees therefore they hold the decision on how they handle the employee, the card will not show any personal details of the staff member other than the person’s full name and photograph.

Alternatively…
Should an employee or individual want to enrol in the training and accreditations scheme “independently” then they are welcome to do so and on successful completion of the course they will receive the documentation and accreditation showing their personal details.

Whatever feelings employees may have on this matter is between “them & their employer” to negotiate what’s fair and unfair, not us.

This whole setup has taken me many years putting together and at my own expense...
I strongly believe our trade should have an independent recognised trade accreditation & training body. If something isn’t done now, the reputable sign firms of today will struggle to survive whilst others simply dissolve amongst the growing breed of cowboy firms.
With this in mind, I have purposely set this up with the “sign company” in mind. I want to do whatever it takes to help them succeed, to stand proud and be recognised for their quality workmanship.
After all I personally think the government is doing a pretty good job fighting the corner of the employee these days as it is!


If anyone has any further questions, please keep them coming…
Even if you have a suggestion to make, I am all ears.

I would also like to thank everyone that has been in contact and registered their intrest in attending.


To register your interest CLICK HERE

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Last edited by .News on Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:15 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Neil Davey

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Post Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:06 pm

Cool Rob.
I'm with you on the "you can fail" part too.
That's why I won't join the likes of The Guild of Master Craftsmen as you just pay your money and you can then display the badge.
I think the only other organization that have integrity in this are The Master Upholsterers association.
Great looking 'Rig' too, I hope you had a professional wrap it!!!
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Jason Xuereb

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Post Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:46 am

Congratulations Rob. Great initiative.





Who you going to get to drive the truck? Not like you can reach the pedals :P
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Shane Drew

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Post Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:57 pm

excellent idea buddy, might have to make the trip over and do the course with you....
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Phill Fenton

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Post Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:59 pm

No Need Shane - if you and a few of your buddies over there sign up - the training vehicle will come to you :-?
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John Singh

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Post Wed Oct 26, 2011 3:51 pm

Phill Fenton wrote:No Need Shane - if you and a few of your buddies over there sign up - the training vehicle will come to you :-?


:lol1:

Rob: Better put something in the clause

Great idea though

That truck looks fantastic
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Robert Lambie

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Post Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:48 pm

Thanks for the replies Neil, Jason, Shane, Phill and John…



Since this news has been posted, we have had various emails & pm's from folk with questions relating to the courses. Ansewers to these questions have been listed below.

I have also listed them at the foot of the editorial for those reading for the first time.


General questions answered:

No, you do not need to be a UKSG member.
No you do not have to be registered on uksignboards.com.
Anyone can book a place for training or an accreditation course.
Just complete the “Enquirey form here” and we will come back to you once we have confirmed the unit’s route and dates for each area.


Vehicle wrapping or advanced vinyl application is set over two full days.
The accreditation course will be one full day.

The maximum amount of people allowed on each course is six.
The unit has purposely been kitted out for this amount of people, with dedicated hands on areas for everyone, as well as six computers within the lecture room.

If a company has 6 members of staff or more, wanting wrap training and accreditation. Then yes, we can actually park up at your premises.
If parking a truck of this size is not possible, we can arrange a place very close by.
The truck has full on-board powering facilities, so it can sit pretty much anywhere.


Accreditation:

Accreditation is awarded to “the company” based on a single employee.
Each employee to pass, the company is awarded a certificate with the employees photograph on it.
The employee is awarded with a plastic photographic ID card, stating he/she is certified at whatever level they have been awarded.

The employee is then listed / promoted within the network on the UKSB Sign toolbar and also on the mobile phone app. Their photographic listing will also be branded with the Companies logo and contact information.
Having a photographic certificate, photographic ID card and also photographic toolbar & signapp listings, helps ensure the person turning up is actually the person certified to do so.

Listings on either the toolbar or phone app, will be listed by geographical “region”.

If a sign maker commissions a certified technician to carry out work on their behalf.
The sign maker also has the facility to leave feedback based on a rating system.
A bit like when you buy from someone on eBay or Amazon!
Having a rating system helps build confidence in the people looking to sub work out.
For instance…
I need work carried out in London. I lift my phone app, look at the index by region and instantly presented with 10 accredited technicians. I can then look at each listing to see who has the best feedback rating. This helps me narrow down my search quickly.


As mentioned, the “company” is awarded the accreditation based on the employee.
If an employee leaves your company, it is up to you to retain their card. However, a quick email to us will have the employee removed from the network instantly. So will no longer exist On the toolbar or the phone app. But, that also means the company losses its accreditation, because they no longer have the qualified staff.

Yes, the employee in question can then re-apply for accreditation and re-sit the exam. But they then do so paying out of their own pocket, not yours!
If they pass, they will then be re-listed within the network. But, regardless to them possibley having had a very high rating before, they now go back to zero rating, and must now earn their rank at their own expence.

If anyone has any further questions, please keep them coming…
Even if you have a suggestion to make, I am all ears.

I would also like to thank everyone that has been in contact and registered their intrest in attending.


To register your interest CLICK HERE

.
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Richard Martin

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Post Thu Oct 27, 2011 8:15 am

I like the idea of this truck and training, well until I read this part.

As mentioned, the “company” is awarded the accreditation based on the employee.
If an employee leaves your company, it is up to you to retain their card. However, a quick email to us will have the employee removed from the network instantly. So will no longer exist On the toolbar or the phone app. But, that also means the company losses its accreditation, because they no longer have the qualified staff.

Yes, the employee in question can then re-apply for accreditation and re-sit the exam. But they then do so paying out of their own pocket, not yours!
If they pass, they will then be re-listed within the network. But, regardless to them possibley having had a very high rating before, they now go back to zero rating, and must now earn their rank at their own expence.


If a company spends money training staff they recoup that training cost back over time, if the employee leaves within a set period they can be liable to repay some or all of the training costs (depending on whats in their contract). Now if your system basically strikes them off because they have left why would they want to resit the exam?? They would have more than likely made good contacts to have continued work, with or without the accreditation. You can't really train staff and then strip them of anything they have been awarded, if you train them as a first aider they still have that certified skill when they leave your company.

Either a person is accredited with the skill or they are not, you don't see gas safe registered plumbers being struck off the list and having to resit an exam because they change employer. I also think if they have to rebuild their feedback the feedback system will have very little value as it won't be a true representation.

Like I said I think the idea in principle is good and i'm sure plenty of people will use it purely for the convenience factor but the accreditation system seems very unfair for those that aren't one man bands trading under their own name and very unlikely to work (as an employee) for anyone else.

Any idea of costs yet??
Last edited by Richard Martin on Thu Oct 27, 2011 8:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Gavin MacMillan

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Post Thu Oct 27, 2011 8:25 am

Agree with Richard, love everything about this until I read the parts about how the accreditation works. I can understand it's complicated to do but if we spend the money training staff we expect them to take that forward with them in their career. Training is a 2 way thing, the staff get experience and qualifications that they can take forward (ok some are time limited like first aid or plant tickets) and we gain qualified staff for the time they work here. This takes that incentive away from the staff member as we would be training them only for the time they work at this business.

Like I said I appreciate this must be complicated to make a system for but I would be interested in understanding the reasoning for this method. I can't think of another qualification that would work like this so any research you have done could be shared here so that people can understand why their qualification would be limited in this way.
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Alan Drury

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Post Thu Oct 27, 2011 8:57 am

I agree with Richard and Gavin - if an individual is trained and accredited he/she will still be trained where ever they work. I would of thought it was the employers task to sort out contractual arrangements if the employee leaves.
Alan D
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Warren Beard

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Post Thu Oct 27, 2011 9:17 am

I like the whole concept too but am afraid I also agree about what has been said above. The other thing I would be concerned about is the ranking or points system.

Anybody not at the top of the list will be at a dis-advantage and starting out with the accreditation when there are a few others might be off-putting as you know all the others will be contacted before you as they have higher rankings. What if you don't get a review or feedback from a job you did?

I would have thought just having a list of reviews would suffice, if they all have the same accreditation then they should all be on an even level. Yes some might have more experience then others but then maybe it's up to the "customer" to determine the best "contractor" for his job.

Just wanted to give my opinion as a little feedback.

All in all a brilliant idea though.

Cheers

Warren
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Tim Painter

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Post Thu Oct 27, 2011 9:55 am

Very interested but also have concerns same as those mentioned.

I would rather see a testimonial type customer feedback - good or bad.

I think the person should keep their certificate like a qualification.
Also what if another member of staff does the fitting but the company has used the accreditation scheme to gain work.

You could have a large company with only one member of staff having been on the scheme.
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Ian Johnston

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Post Thu Oct 27, 2011 11:34 am

The simple way around the training and leaving scenario that i found is ,

Let the staff pay for the courses them selves, that way they pay attention and don't fail,
Then after 1 year i reimburse them the cost of there training after i have benefited, and they haven't run off to another company. Been caught a few times before , ever since implementing never had a problem
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Richard Martin

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Post Thu Oct 27, 2011 11:42 am

Ian Johnston wrote:The simple way around the training and leaving scenario that i found is ,

Let the staff pay for the courses them selves, that way they pay attention and don't fail,
Then after 1 year i reimburse them the cost of there training after i have benefited, and they haven't run off to another company. Been caught a few times before , ever since implementing never had a problem


There really is no need for that if you include training costs in the employment contract, the cost is based on a sliding scale and can be recouped if the employee leaves within x amount of time. A standard seems to be 100% reclaim if the employee leaves with 1 year sliding down to nothing after 3 years.
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Ian Johnston

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Post Thu Oct 27, 2011 11:51 am

Richard Martin wrote:
Ian Johnston wrote:The simple way around the training and leaving scenario that i found is ,

Let the staff pay for the courses them selves, that way they pay attention and don't fail,
Then after 1 year i reimburse them the cost of there training after i have benefited, and they haven't run off to another company. Been caught a few times before , ever since implementing never had a problem


There really is no need for that if you include training costs in the employment contract, the cost is based on a sliding scale and can be recouped if the employee leaves within x amount of time. A standard seems to be 100% reclaim if the employee leaves with 1 year sliding down to nothing after 3 years.


did you ever try to get something off an employee after they have left !!!!

99% of the law is for employees not employers
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Richard Martin

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Post Thu Oct 27, 2011 11:56 am

Ian Johnston wrote:
Richard Martin wrote:
Ian Johnston wrote:The simple way around the training and leaving scenario that i found is ,

Let the staff pay for the courses them selves, that way they pay attention and don't fail,
Then after 1 year i reimburse them the cost of there training after i have benefited, and they haven't run off to another company. Been caught a few times before , ever since implementing never had a problem


There really is no need for that if you include training costs in the employment contract, the cost is based on a sliding scale and can be recouped if the employee leaves within x amount of time. A standard seems to be 100% reclaim if the employee leaves with 1 year sliding down to nothing after 3 years.


did you ever try to get something off an employee after they have left !!!!

99% of the law is for employees not employers


i'm not totally disagreeing with you its catch 22. This scheme though would end up seeing someone paying for a qualification everytime they changed to a new company and the other company having to pay out everytime even if they take on an experienced wrapper.
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Karl Williams

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Post Thu Oct 27, 2011 12:11 pm

Sorry, but I agree with the system. It protects the employers interests.
The ranking system also protects anyone wanting a professional. anyone can get the certificate to state they passed the course. But do certificates always guarantee a quality service? In the funeral game employers spend thousands on training staff to become Funeral Directors and many of them leave their employer soon after leaving the employer out of pocket and having to start at the beginning again. Ian's correct.......you won't ever get anything out of an employee.
I think Rob is just using the voice of experience from himself and others to protect employers interests which from my own experience would be the correct thing to do.
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Gavin MacMillan

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Post Thu Oct 27, 2011 12:34 pm

I don't disagree with what Ian has said but Karl you sound like you only want to train staff for your own benefit, it should be a 2 way street allowing experience and qualifications to be gathered over many years regardless of particular place of work.

Edit: As an aside it may also prove difficult to gain funding to train staff if they are only trained for the duration of employment - it goes against the whole spirit of training in my opinion.
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Karl Williams

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Post Thu Oct 27, 2011 12:39 pm

Gavin, if you paid lets say 2 grand to train someone then they left how would that make you feel?
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Gavin MacMillan

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Post Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:05 pm

That's why something like Ian has suggested makes sense. The cost of training should be small compared to the rewards and I understand that can take time to repay but that is a matter for individual companies not the training organisation. It really isn't in the ethos of 'training' to strip a person of their accomplishments for any other reason than expiration and that would only come into play with time sensitive information and some other specific cases.
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Richard Martin

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Post Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:10 pm

Karl Williams wrote:Sorry, but I agree with the system. It protects the employers interests.
The ranking system also protects anyone wanting a professional. anyone can get the certificate to state they passed the course. But do certificates always guarantee a quality service? In the funeral game employers spend thousands on training staff to become Funeral Directors and many of them leave their employer soon after leaving the employer out of pocket and having to start at the beginning again. Ian's correct.......you won't ever get anything out of an employee.
I think Rob is just using the voice of experience from himself and others to protect employers interests which from my own experience would be the correct thing to do.


Sorry but with that attitude you will never get anything out of employee, respect is a two way street.

If you pay 2k out training and the employee leaves the following week then you can recoup your costs (if its in the employment contract) its not exactly a hard process and an attachment of earning can be placed on his/her wages with the new job. If you really are scared of people leaving after getting them trained up it would probably best not to employ staff. Staff don't generally just leave for no reason so if you have a high turnover of staff maybe you need to look at your business and see where the problem lies.

I totally agree with Gavin in the fact you train people to become qualified not just qualified for your company. Where would we be if every doctor, teacher, nurse etc needed to be re trained when they moved somewhere else.
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Ian Johnston

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Post Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:01 pm

Richard Martin wrote:
Karl Williams wrote:Sorry, but I agree with the system. It protects the employers interests.
The ranking system also protects anyone wanting a professional. anyone can get the certificate to state they passed the course. But do certificates always guarantee a quality service? In the funeral game employers spend thousands on training staff to become Funeral Directors and many of them leave their employer soon after leaving the employer out of pocket and having to start at the beginning again. Ian's correct.......you won't ever get anything out of an employee.
I think Rob is just using the voice of experience from himself and others to protect employers interests which from my own experience would be the correct thing to do.


Sorry but with that attitude you will never get anything out of employee, respect is a two way street.

Richard if i may, Are you an Employer or employee?



If you pay 2k out training and the employee leaves the following week then you can recoup your costs (if its in the employment contract) its not exactly a hard process and an attachment of earning can be placed on his/her wages with the new job. If you really are scared of people leaving after getting them trained up it would probably best not to employ staff. Staff don't generally just leave for no reason so if you have a high turnover of staff maybe you need to look at your business and see where the problem lies.

I totally agree with Gavin in the fact you train people to become qualified not just qualified for your company. Where would we be if every doctor, teacher, nurse etc needed to be re trained when they moved somewhere else.



Richard if i may, Are you an Employer or employee?
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Richard Martin

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Post Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:47 pm

Ian Johnston wrote:
Richard Martin wrote:
Karl Williams wrote:Sorry, but I agree with the system. It protects the employers interests.
The ranking system also protects anyone wanting a professional. anyone can get the certificate to state they passed the course. But do certificates always guarantee a quality service? In the funeral game employers spend thousands on training staff to become Funeral Directors and many of them leave their employer soon after leaving the employer out of pocket and having to start at the beginning again. Ian's correct.......you won't ever get anything out of an employee.
I think Rob is just using the voice of experience from himself and others to protect employers interests which from my own experience would be the correct thing to do.


Sorry but with that attitude you will never get anything out of employee, respect is a two way street.

Richard if i may, Are you an Employer or employee?



If you pay 2k out training and the employee leaves the following week then you can recoup your costs (if its in the employment contract) its not exactly a hard process and an attachment of earning can be placed on his/her wages with the new job. If you really are scared of people leaving after getting them trained up it would probably best not to employ staff. Staff don't generally just leave for no reason so if you have a high turnover of staff maybe you need to look at your business and see where the problem lies.

I totally agree with Gavin in the fact you train people to become qualified not just qualified for your company. Where would we be if every doctor, teacher, nurse etc needed to be re trained when they moved somewhere else.



Richard if i may, Are you an Employer or employee?


At this moment in time I work for myself and I don't have any need for employees, I have done my time as an employee and several years as an employer (not in this industry). As an employer I found that if you pay peanuts and treat your staff like sh!t they will looking for the fastest route out of the door. If you give your staff a respectable wage for the job, incentives to better themselves and bring new skills into the job they have a lot more loyalty for you.

Not that its relevant in the slightest whether i'm an employer or employee if you expect staff to invest their time in your business and become loyal and hard working for your company then you invest in them.

Asking your staff to pay for their own training for a job you want them to do to me smacks of lack of trust, yet your expecting them to trust you to pay them in 12 months time, who says you won't go to the dogs in that time and they'll never see there money!! I fully appreciate that shelling out a lot of money training staff for them to leave hurts the pocket and is one big waste of time but you can limit your losses.

At the end of the day if your considering putting staff thats already in your company forward for training you obviously think they have potential or why are you wasting your time?
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Richard Martin

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Post Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:07 pm

Ian just to add I don't totally disagree about employees paying for their own training and you reimburse them in 12 months. I do however think it depends on the training and if its something necessary for the core business then the business should stump up for it.

That said who regardless of who pays for it with normal training the employee will have a qualification at the end of it and can use that to go forward, this proposed system though would leave the employee with no qualification if he/she left that company. So for arguments sake if the employer/employee paid out 2k for training and accreditation to find that the other half has been offered a top job other side of the country and has to move that 2k is wasted and the qualification would become null and void.

If this accreditation has the bar set high as indicated in the first post (i,e its not an automatic pass) then that should be the end of it, your qualified or your not. Maybe with 2 yearly refresher/checks to be made to keep the qualification upto date.

The other thing is people will use people they know and if they lose their accreditation because of changing companies they will still be used as they are known and their level of work is known so what would be the need to redo the course if they have work?

BTW i'm not knocking this accreditation in anyway I think it could be a good system to find decent people to do wraps and think in the first year or two will be great but people do move around and change from one company to another so will they shell out again to earn something they already had?
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Post Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:10 pm

Personally I think it is a good idea. We should have an industry standard so the public can tell the difference from Simons (oh i swore !) Signs down the road, and you who's running a professional business.

The individual getting the qualification is fine - understandably as a business you need to protect your interests. My first contract of employment forbid me to work for another funeral directors within 5miles of any branch I was employed with. Different courses had different time scales you had to remain with the company or repay the sum in full. However the boss didn't part with his cash so no concern there.

As Karl said, funeral directors can train and qualify in loads of courses, but there is no requirement that funeral directors, or even embalmers need to be qualified, registered in any way. It is all voluntary.

I am in favour of anything that separates those genuine businesses from the cheap bag of (oh i swore !) sign shops -

I have contemplated joining the BSGA, but what difference will it really make to my business - I've never been asked am I a member, or even what training have I had?
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Post Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:17 pm

David I totally agree with you, a decent standard regardless of what industry your in can only be a good thing. The problem I see though is when people work hard to achieve a that standard and earn a qualification it shouldn't be taken away from them because they choose to work for some else. It should only be removed from them if they fail to meet the standard or something along those lines.
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Post Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:25 pm

Looking at most other qualifications they remain with the person.

In the Navy I had qualifications coming out of my ears, if I changed boat or base I was still qualified but all these qualifications had to be maintained with regular checks.

Training is great and it is up to the company to decide, implement and enforce how they operate training programmes.

Each business is different.
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Post Thu Oct 27, 2011 7:19 pm

The only qualification i have for the sign trade is an HND in signwork, but I gained that 20 odd years ago at college, and the sign trade has changed so much since then whether it be with new materials or new techniques so yes I would be interested in this new course even though I only do the odd sign (painting & decorating pays the mortage)
I do old fashioned hand painted lettering and basic vinyl applications , simple fonts with shadows & outlines etc. ( honours boards, vans, shops fronts)
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Post Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:16 pm

I think if you earn a certification you must be able to keep it for the duration of it being valid (until you need to do refresher course, every 5 years or so?) How the employer protects his investment is up to them.

As previously mentioned and wonder what others thoughts are about the ranking system.

From my point of view as a one man business I would not be keen to do the course if there were say 10 others already listed in my area all with high rankings as the chances of getting business would be slim as any potential job would start from the top of the list as presumably they are the best at doing it. Therefor why would I waste my time doing it if not getting a return? Yes if I needed the training to improve my skills etc then there is a benefit but on the basis of getting sub contract work I don't see a massive data base.

I may be very wrong so would like to know more.

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Post Thu Oct 27, 2011 11:25 pm

They don't just leave because they have a qualification.


I can see both sides of the employer / employee coin but each has to appreciate each others position to make a good relationship.
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Post Thu Oct 27, 2011 11:26 pm

The wrap accreditation system is being setup for registered sign companies to “invest” in becoming part of. The successful applicants will be given recognition by being listed in our online directory and phone app. As well as documentation and Cards to present to customers.

The accreditation listing will show the sign companies logo and full company contact details ie. they booked the training spot and paid our fees therefore they hold the decision on how they handle the employee, the card will not show any personal details of the staff member other than the person’s full name and photograph.

Alternatively…
Should an employee or individual want to enrol in the training and accreditations scheme “independently” then they are welcome to do so and on successful completion of the course they will receive the documentation and accreditation showing their personal details.

Whatever feelings employees may have on this matter is between “them & their employer” to negotiate what’s fair and unfair, not us.

This whole setup has taken me many years putting together and at my own expense...
I strongly believe our trade should have an independent recognised trade accreditation & training body. If something isn’t done now, the reputable sign firms of today will struggle to survive whilst others simply dissolve amongst the growing breed of cowboy firms.
With this in mind, I have purposely set this up with the “sign company” in mind. I want to do whatever it takes to help them succeed, to stand proud and be recognised for their quality workmanship.
After all I personally think the government is doing a pretty good job fighting the corner of the employee these days as it is!


.
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Tim Painter

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Post Thu Oct 27, 2011 11:41 pm

Rob as there are many sole traders on the boards like myself, would you mind explaining the benefits you see for them as you know more about how you intend the system to work than anyone else?

I only ask as a lot of what has been said is directed at companies employing staff.
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Post Thu Oct 27, 2011 11:48 pm

"Alternatively…
Should an employee or individual want to enrol in the training and accreditations scheme “independently” then they are welcome to do so and on successful completion of the course they will receive the documentation and accreditation showing their personal details."


Tim
i think this explains what you asking, at last a straight forward question in amongst all of the squabbling

Kev
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Gavin MacMillan

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Post Fri Oct 28, 2011 8:59 am

it's not really Kev. Though I don't want to be involved in squabbling of any sort my main issue has been the employee's inability to take their qualification with them. Now it has been stated that they can pay for it themselves if they wish but again this is just strange. Most people seem to agree that if you pay to have someone qualified they should be able to take that with them when they move on. Training is about bettering people and not just for the companies own gain.

I also think the point about funding is an important one. We will probably looking at putting 3 people through this training, receiving funding would make a big difference to the overall cost but I doubt any of the bodies we would approach for this funding would be happy with the set-up as it stands.

Anyway, I've made my point as well as I can. I think the whole thing is a brilliant idea and a great achievement and I only have concerns about 1 aspect of it. This would not however stop me using it as a training facility.
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Post Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:38 am

Robert Lambie wrote:The wrap accreditation system is being setup for registered sign companies to “invest” in becoming part of. The successful applicants will be given recognition by being listed in our online directory and phone app. As well as documentation and Cards to present to customers.

The accreditation listing will show the sign companies logo and full company contact details ie. they booked the training spot and paid our fees therefore they hold the decision on how they handle the employee, the card will not show any personal details of the staff member other than the person’s full name and photograph.

Alternatively…
Should an employee or individual want to enrol in the training and accreditations scheme “independently” then they are welcome to do so and on successful completion of the course they will receive the documentation and accreditation showing their personal details.

Whatever feelings employees may have on this matter is between “them & their employer” to negotiate what’s fair and unfair, not us.

This whole setup has taken me many years putting together and at my own expense...
I strongly believe our trade should have an independent recognised trade accreditation & training body. If something isn’t done now, the reputable sign firms of today will struggle to survive whilst others simply dissolve amongst the growing breed of cowboy firms.
With this in mind, I have purposely set this up with the “sign company” in mind. I want to do whatever it takes to help them succeed, to stand proud and be recognised for their quality workmanship.
After all I personally think the government is doing a pretty good job fighting the corner of the employee these days as it is!


.


As already said a lot of people are on their own so if they do the course for themselves and then decide to become an employee of a company that company will still have to pay out again to get the accreditation for their company??

Sure this thread was longer...........
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Post Fri Oct 28, 2011 11:08 am

Aside from the comments made, I think this is a great idea and wish Rob all the best with this venture. All the best mate. :wink:
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Post Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:17 pm

Gavin
Tim was asking as a sole trader & in my opinion the comment dealt with that. You want to know more as an employer. My personal view is, I agree that if a person is accredited then he is accredited & that an employer should do what they need to do to protect the investment they have put in the employee. Many companies do, bus drivers get trained for free but must repay the cost if they leave within a year, Tesco's use to train you for a forklift but kept the training internal so that you had a Tesco Forklift License which met the license criteria but was only recognized by Tesco. All of the above i feel are negative ways of protecting that investment i think more professional proactive routes are the best way to.

Kev
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Gavin MacMillan

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Post Fri Oct 28, 2011 1:19 pm

I'm in total agreement Kev, individual companies should be able to protect an investment in any fashion they choose. My issue is that this is taken out of the companies hands in the scheme as it is now.

As I said already, to me it's the only negative in a very interesting venture.

G
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Post Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:33 pm

Richard Martin wrote:As already said a lot of people are on their own so if they do the course for themselves and then decide to become an employee of a company that company will still have to pay out again to get the accreditation for their company??


No they don't.
If a self employed individual is the one with the accreditation, "the person who paid the invoice", he/she can request his contact details be changed to that of his new employer, or whatever...
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Craig Ross

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Post Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:55 pm

More importantly, when are the courses starting? and how much will it be?

I think its a great idea.
Last edited by Craig Ross on Fri Oct 28, 2011 4:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Fri Oct 28, 2011 4:51 pm

I'm not into wraps etc but here are my thoughts..

It’s a good idea Rob in principle… But who approves the tutors or examiners? And who’s to say they are any better skilled/qualified than the next man/woman who has been wrapping vehicles for years either under employment by a company or working for themselves with no problems.

I can imagine some of these people going on this course and being failed and getting angry on the say of someone else’s “set standard”, and IF the failed people already work for a company I wonder if they be “got rid of “ in favor of a someone who is accredited.
Also to me this could be Disaster for the small one man band who cant afford the price of the course and does not totally rely on wrapping of their income.

Just my view… no offence meant.
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Post Fri Oct 28, 2011 5:13 pm

Its a good point Andrew. I dare say a certificate looks good on the wall but if you can do the job thats all the customer is interested in. I'm in a small town so reputation will soon go round, might be a different issue in cities a or larger places.
Actually I've not got any formal qualifications, went into the sign trade (as a signwriter) in 1974, self employed in 1979, own business in 1980, never been asked for qualification references. Experience counts, is 2 days enough to give the edge over someone whose been wrapping for a couple of years. I'm all for training but I don't put too much emphasis on a piece of paper.
Alan D
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Post Fri Oct 28, 2011 5:17 pm

Robert Lambie wrote:
Richard Martin wrote:As already said a lot of people are on their own so if they do the course for themselves and then decide to become an employee of a company that company will still have to pay out again to get the accreditation for their company??


No they don't.
If a self employed individual is the one with the accreditation, "the person who paid the invoice", he/she can request his contact details be changed to that of his new employer, or whatever...


Thats promising, how many times can they change the details??

Its hard to base a real opinion as obviously not all the facts have been fully released yet in detail.
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Post Fri Oct 28, 2011 5:26 pm

Difficult to see a right and wrong way forward for something like this, there are always going to be those who agree and those who don't. Don't know the answer to the employee or employer debate, yes it seems wrong that the accreditation doesn't stay with the employee but the employer these days seem to have very little rights and often employment contracts don't seem to be worth the paper they are written on.

Andrew asked a very good question about who approves the tutors and examiners and to add to that what happens if someone fails and then complains? Will there be some kind of appeals procedure put in place at all.

Anything that can be done to improve the general standard of the industry can't all be bad, you have to start somewhere and I am guessing that some things will change as lessons are learnt.

Bold move on your part Robert but hope it goes well for you.
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Post Fri Oct 28, 2011 5:41 pm

My understanding (or speed reading problems :-? ) was this was more for trade than general use as I too have never been asked for accreditation's etc, I believe your portfolio (as with a designer) is what sells you most of the time. If the customer can see you have done and do good work then they have the confidence to use you. So I thought this was more for somebody in the Trade needing a job fitted in a distant location and was more cost effective to outsource the fitting but want to be sure the person they use will be good enough to do a good job as it's still your name at the end of the day and you don't want a rough trader messing that up. Knowing there are people out there that have been approved makes it easier to find a fitter and confidence in them too.
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Post Fri Oct 28, 2011 7:08 pm

Richard Martin wrote:
Robert Lambie wrote:
Richard Martin wrote:As already said a lot of people are on their own so if they do the course for themselves and then decide to become an employee of a company that company will still have to pay out again to get the accreditation for their company??


No they don't.
If a self employed individual is the one with the accreditation, "the person who paid the invoice", he/she can request his contact details be changed to that of his new employer, or whatever...


Thats promising, how many times can they change the details??

Its hard to base a real opinion as obviously not all the facts have been fully released yet in detail.


I would not imagine, or should i say, have not even considered someone moving from company to company many times... However, I do not see there being a restriction on how many times your contact information is changed, (within reason) but your picture and full name must always be in place. that part cannot change other than if you update the picture.

The beauty of having the toolbar and the mobile app is that we can update the information daily. the information refreshes each time the device is used. By that i mean, once you have been approved, your listing will be on everyone's mobile phone by the next day, same applies with the toolbar.
There is no hidden fees or priority listings, this comes as standard with your accrediation.
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Post Fri Oct 28, 2011 7:51 pm

Andrew Martin wrote:It’s a good idea Rob in principle… But who approves the tutors or examiners? And who’s to say they are any better skilled/qualified than the next man/woman who has been wrapping vehicles for years either under employment by a company or working for themselves with no problems.

Hi Andrew...
no offence taken and a good question mate.

wrap training and accrediation will be given by (in my veiw) two of the best wrap instructors in the UK. These tutors not only have many years experience in wrapping and training, but are also accredited by various "vinyl manufacturers".

accreditation will not be given purely on "hands-on show us what you can do", type of thing. there will be a set structure to it and your knowledge of what is required is also in question.

Please note, accreditation is not only based on "wrapping" it is also given on "advanced vinyl application".

It is very difficult for me to reply to you properly without being long winded
aswell as divulging information i would rather not give out at the moment.
so i do apologise for that.
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Matty Goodwin

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Post Fri Oct 28, 2011 8:09 pm

What governs the UKSignboard accreditation?

Could I show people how to wrap/fit vinyl and give them a 'Matt Goodwin' certificate?

It's just a thought but fair play for trying it out.
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Jason Davies

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Post Fri Oct 28, 2011 8:50 pm

I think that is a fair question. I've been involved in examining for nearly 20 years and to offer such certification with merit needs to be clear.

How will you assess rigour, is the assessment criteria published beforehand etc? I'm sure you have looked into this but to offer it means it should be quality assured by an external panel and be monitored impartially throughout.

I would have thought the opportunity for mobile training would be enough?

Just my take.
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Post Fri Oct 28, 2011 11:52 pm

Was just enjoying a good read on here
I thinks it's a good idea myself.
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Post Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:13 pm

Hi Jason

As you have said mate, I have looked into this in depth, and have invested allot of my own time and money into it.
In answer to your question, yes, I do have backing from various outside parties, enough on its own to proceed with credibility. However, I am also waiting on others to confirm. So at this point in time I will not divulge this information, but rest assured, full details will be made public online as well as in trade press when I deem it time to do so.

We hope to begin wrapping courses soon, but accreditation courses will not commence until mid January. They could start sooner, but I do not want to confirm dates for either only to break them due to the great British weather! i.e. Snow


Thank you…
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Jason Davies

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Post Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:13 am

Sounds good Rob. If you want me to cast an eye over the procedure I'm happy to do so. If you email me I'll be happy to let you know credentials with regard to this type of process.

Good luck with this, it really sounds a good idea but also has the potential to develop into a required qualification within the industry.

Jason
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Post Sun Oct 30, 2011 5:55 pm

Thanks very much for the offer Jason, I do appreciate it mate.
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Post Mon Oct 31, 2011 12:49 pm

Warren Beard wrote:From my point of view as a one man business I would not be keen to do the course if there were say 10 others already listed in my area all with high rankings as the chances of getting business would be slim as any potential job would start from the top of the list as presumably they are the best at doing it. Therefor why would I waste my time doing it if not getting a return? Yes if I needed the training to improve my skills etc then there is a benefit but on the basis of getting sub contract work I don't see a massive data
cheers
Warren


Hi Warren
sorry, just getting round to replying to some more of these questions.

Listings will be by the level of accreditation the individual has.
It will then break down to "regional location".
It will then be be listed in either "Alphabetical order" or last in "sits at the top".
no matter what, each listing appears exactly the same. it is only if the person then clicks on members feedback, will info be present.

You do have a very valid point though, i am not glazing over it.
The thing is, i strongly believe there should be some form of deterrent in providing bad workmanship "after being accredited".
A structure that keeps "everyone on their toes" so to speak... as the old saying goes, your only as good as your last job.

If like you say there was a large list of companies, then re-indexing would have to be looked at. by that i mean, then breaking it down into "Towns" after region has been heavily populated.

As i said, listngs all look the exact same until clicked. nobody is flying 5 gold stars, or have enhanced listings.

Customer feedback is one of the biggest and fairest way on the internet worldwide, to ensure a level of service or product quality is kept. you only have to look at Amazon or eBay to see what i mean.

The feedback system will work via a "list" of questions based on a customers expectations, after work has been carried out.

i.e.

How do you feel about the quality of the installation?
How do you feel they represented your company?

they will have a button to click to rate the question asked.

Poor
Average
Good
Excellent


that sort of thing, though admittedly, that's still not set in stone.

at the end of the day, it is up to the individual to encourage their customers leave them feedback.

Hope this helps explain things a little clearer Warren.
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Post Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:03 pm

any idea on costs yet?
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Warren Beard

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Post Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:08 pm

Hi Rob

You can't leave negative feedback on ebay anymore I believe :lol1: Seriously though I read it as you will get higher ratings the more you do, technically somebody with higher feedback does not mean better than somebody with lower feedback. I know there isn't really many other ways to do it and although it's "hidden" until clicked on anybody doing their due diligence looking for a trade fitter will click on them all to find out how "good" they are.

My point is that basic feedback only (positive or negative) would be enough, almost like testimonials on a web page, this gives confidence to a customer knowing you have and do do good work.

I'm not sure there is a totally right or wrong way but just my opinion to make it as fair and even to all.

cheers

Warren
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Post Mon Oct 31, 2011 2:50 pm

Prices cannot be confirmed at this point, sorry.
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Post Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:02 am

Excellent Rob it takes a lot of drive, determination and belief to do what you are doing and I'm sure it will be a success.

Cheers :D
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Dave Bruce

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Post Tue Jan 03, 2012 11:38 pm

Just come across this as not been on for a while!

Well done Rob, what you have achieved and seem to continue to achieve for the sign industry is brilliant, I take my hat off to you.

I did the wrapping course with Roland and found it very informative and enjoyable and it gave me the confidence to undertake a wrap. Obviously I don't have a need for this anymore (different industry now) but wish you all the best.

Well done.

Dave
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Post Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:50 pm

It's a Sunday, it's my day off, so what do I go and do? I go to see a sneak preview of Robs mobile vehicle wrap training accreditation vehicle of course (well it gets me out of the house and gives Alison a bit of peace and quiet whilst I am away :-? ).

What can I say, I was blown away with what I saw. The photo of the vehicle just do not do it justice, it looks brand new. Rob has put a huge amount of work into this vehicle and must have spent an absolute fortune fitting it out. It's like a showroom inside and has fully kitted out individual work stations with all the latest equipment. Even though it was freezing outside, the interior was lovely and warm and surprisingly spacous.

You've done a tremendous job bringing it to this stage Rob and you thoroughly deserve to have great success with it.

Anyone using this will not be dissapointed :D
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Post Mon Feb 06, 2012 2:04 pm

Thanks a million for the comments Andrew, Dave and Phill...

was great to catch up with you again phill and great to hear your thoughts on the training unit. its been a hefty learning curve with allot of changes being made along the way. but we have got there in the end. :lol1:

The truck will roll into RHG -Robert Horne Group, Glasgow Kinning Park at the end of this week. It will also be at Robert Horne - Manchester Trafford Park where it will be on-site for the 3 days of the RHG Open day, then commence with Training.

more info on all this will follow soon...
in the mean time, if you have any questions, please use the following contact facility. CLICK HERE

Image


.
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Post Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:18 pm

Phill Fenton wrote:It's a Sunday, it's my day off, so what do I go and do? I go to see a sneak preview of Robs mobile vehicle wrap training accreditation vehicle of course (well it gets me out of the house and gives Alison a bit of peace and quiet whilst I am away :-? ).

What can I say, I was blown away with what I saw. The photo of the vehicle just do not do it justice, it looks brand new. Rob has put a huge amount of work into this vehicle and must have spent an absolute fortune fitting it out. It's like a showroom inside and has fully kitted out individual work stations with all the latest equipment. Even though it was freezing outside, the interior was lovely and warm and surprisingly spacous.

You've done a tremendous job bringing it to this stage Rob and you thoroughly deserve to have great success with it.

Anyone using this will not be dissapointed :D





For all of us who can't get to see it, any chance of any pics from the inside Rob? :)
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Post Tue Feb 07, 2012 12:44 pm

Hi Glen

I intend loading internal pictures etc. as soon as its ready to roll mate.
its done, all but a few snag list bits needing amended. :D
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Post Tue Feb 07, 2012 3:50 pm

Look forward to having a nosey at them Rob :D
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David Rowland

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Post Tue Feb 07, 2012 3:57 pm

Robert Lambie wrote:Hi Glen

I intend loading internal pictures etc. as soon as its ready to roll mate.
its done, all but a few snag list bits needing amended. :D


processing the film at boots?
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David Hammond

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Post Tue Feb 07, 2012 8:23 pm

Rob what will the advanced vinyl application course cover?

Did ask on the other thread but no replies.
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Scott.Evans

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Post Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:27 pm

Hi Rob,

i will be looking to send one of our employes on this. hope to see you at the sign show.

Scott
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Robert Lambie

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Post Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:03 pm

david i spotted your post mate and intend replying but its a bit of a long winded type reply and havent had a chance mate, sorry about that.
i have received your application and have logged it. i will send you an email as soon as possible.

Scott, thats good to hear mate and yeh, catch up with us all at the bar at sign and digital. :wink:
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Robert Walker

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Post Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:11 am

eerrrmmm cant wait to see the inside Rob
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David Rowland

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Post Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:21 am

some of us have seen the inside now (an exclusive)... lets put it this way...

imagine a high cost stylish hair-dressers and you know rob's put a lot of hard work into it.. simply stunning
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Phill Fenton

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Post Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:57 am

Dave Rowland wrote:imagine a high cost stylish hair-dressers and you know rob's put a lot of hard work into it.. simply stunning


:lol1: :lol1: Not sure if that was a compliment or not
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David Rowland

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Post Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:09 pm

I am describing the experience that Rob has made, it looks more like a studio with a workshop laid out in a hi-quality way.

What I am saying, it ain't just a pretty truck it looks like a well done training centre.

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