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Hording: Hacienda Night Club

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Post Sun Jun 16, 2002 5:04 pm

Hording: Hacienda Night Club

This is a hording we covered in manchester
on the site of the old hacienda night club
the hording is 100mtrs long 2 mtrs high
50 sheets of 10mm forex with vinyl lettering applied
designed cut out applied & fitted within 1 week!!
we start the other side next week
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Post Mon Jun 17, 2002 12:47 am

nice project paul... great work!

i have a couple of questions i would like to ask! :)

1, is the 10mm forex curving round tha corner or is it in the form of say, a hexagon. hope that makes sense :oops:
the reason i ask is, i did not think it would bend round the corner without breaking. i maybe wrong...just asking.
2, how did you fix the boards. was it screws etc and how long is the hording going to be there?
3, what made you choose forex? not downing the product as i find it to be excellent. im just asking as i would have thought wood or somthing more appropriote... :)
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Post Mon Jun 17, 2002 6:23 am

hacienda manchester

the hording was already plywood we just covered it in forex
because of the time scale involved
yes it was a hexagon not curved
we fixed it with 1/34in number 10 screws covered with vinyl circles
the approx length there is about 40 mtrs the next one we are doing is the same length but it has 8x 8mtrx2mtr digital prints
hope the printer holds out!!!!!!
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Post Mon Jun 17, 2002 9:34 pm

Hi Paul
The reason I asked about the way it was fixed was I thought it maybe screws…
Correct me if im wrong. But I see a problem here!
Foam board, whatever make. Will expand and contract with different temperatures.
If you have screwed it in various locations then these areas will hold tight while the rest of the sign moves with the heat/cold. After a few hot days you may find yourself looking at 40 feet of wavy foam board. I know you have used 10mm so this may keep things to a minimum. But it just started alarm bells ringing when you said you where going to be doing another. Are you using a silicone behind it also? This some time helps reduce warping… I always find foam boards are better fitted with some kind of trim around it. Rather than a fixing….

Slap me down if you have thought of this mate I just thought I would mention it.
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Post Mon Jun 17, 2002 9:48 pm

hacienda manchester

been there done that!!
if you drill the holes first for the screws and dont tighten them too tight
its ok
yes it will expand so if you leave a 1/4 inch gap between the panels
it gives them room to expand
you could not use eurotrim because of where it was
i.e right next to the pavement with people walking past
the joints would come apart

yes i do agree with you that you should not screw
fomex or anything like that but 10mm is not as bad as 5mm
and there was nowhere to put a ally trim around it
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Post Mon Jun 17, 2002 9:58 pm

I agree with Blackpoolsigns about pre-drilling and not tightening to the material. This allows “some” of the float characteristics that trim or frames allow. :o

Something else for Robert, to bend this material in “certain” situations, how about producing multiple “cerf” cuts on the backside via the router and then bending/gluing the “curved” shape. Depending on the thickness of the material and the required radius, this could be a possible option. I’ll have to dig some pictures out where solid substrates have been “curved” using this method in the past.
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Post Mon Jun 17, 2002 10:02 pm

fair enough paul if your confident with your method. im not knocking it, honest. but i personaly would have to use a differnt method. especialy with the differs in our weather...
your right the 1/4 gap between the panels allow movement but
i still think with a sheet of that size the centre of the panels will rise like a bun in the oven on a very hot day. if! you have screw fixings round the parimetre of the sign.. loose or not, your not going to get the 1/4 inch play like you have between the sheets.

if the hording was already up. could you not have gloss painted the boards and applied the graphics to that. it would have been cheaper and i think it would last longer... :roll:
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Post Mon Jun 17, 2002 10:10 pm

ah ha bob. you must have posted that just as i did my message...

pics of your suggestion would be good. im a little unsure of what you mean... but i have no doubt it will probably help if not solve this problem. :D
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Post Mon Jun 17, 2002 10:17 pm

hacienda manchester

it would of taken us a week to paint 100mtrs of plywood undercoat & gloss
plus it is right next to the pavement in the middle of manchester
we would of had more dry cleaning bills than the job was worth
from passers by rubbing up against it

we would have to corden off the pavement for the pedestrians
we could of not done that in the time scale we were given

oh and by the way we did screw the panels in the middle
and we have not been back to it yet
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Post Mon Jun 17, 2002 10:19 pm

Stupid question here lads but..............

if I did need to fix a sheet of foamex straight to a wall or whatever, what would be the best way to do it, and to prevent warping?? :-?

ANDY
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Post Mon Jun 17, 2002 10:43 pm

You need to use an aluminium extrusion (e.g. panatrim) to make a frame Andy. This gets attached to the wall, and the sign panel hangs inside. This allows the panel to expand and contract without warping. It's important to realise that the trim not only finishes the sign off - it serves to prevent the panel from warping. I spend a lot of time explaining this to my customers who invariably say "I'll not bother with the frame" (cheapskates :roll: ).

Having said all that - white PVC panels aren't as bad as dark ones. The white reflects the sun and is not as prone to warping as dark panels are (e.g Black/blue/red). Elongating the screw holes can help - but for a long term PVC substrate main sign (e.g a shop or factory sign) it really should be housed in a frame.
Last edited by Phill Fenton on Mon Jun 17, 2002 10:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Mon Jun 17, 2002 10:49 pm

Andy,

Forex or Foam-X?

Please bear in mind that I have not used either product in the past and my only experience to the products is what I read off their website a few minutes before posting and translating that into similar material here State side.

I have never interfaced with either product, but Foam-X appears to be an indoor material while Forex is outdoor suitable.

For me, it would depend on the application.

Forex, if it were an outside install, full sheet with light to moderate sun exposure on an a vinyl siding wall, 100% pure silicone adhesive with a few strategically placed screws. Same situation but on a brick wall, floating “screw” install. Heavy sun exsposure, some type of “frame” system.

Interior installation on a smooth wall, VHB (Very High Bond)tape and/or 100 % silicone adhesive. Again, for me, the actual application will determine the “best” method.

Foam-X on a smooth wall near heating or air conditioning ductwork, VHB tape. Not near any extreme temperature changes, standard double-sided tape.

Again, it’s dependent on the actual application for myself.
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Post Mon Jun 17, 2002 10:55 pm

sorry bob I meant forex, I always get the two confused! Don't worry though all my signs are still up (to my knowledge anyway :wink: )

ANDY
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Post Mon Jun 17, 2002 10:56 pm

Fair enough Paul… im not trying to knock your job or your decisions on using the foam board. The work looks great & if the foam works then great… im just giving my opinion, nothing more.
When I said about the middle rising. It will even if it is screwed down. This giving the button on a pillow effect. By how much on 10mm I don’t know. Maybe not even enough to see. But it will do it. It has too!
Time not being on your side I did not know was an issue. However painting ¼ inch plywood & lettering it in your workshop. Then pinning it on would still be much cheaper… but like you said would take a little longer… it will also cancel out those cleaning bills and the hassle of blocking the pavement.

Andy I would recommend using a panatrim of some sort or an alloy angle surrounding the sign. It lets the foam breath without restriction. This eliminating any signs of warping
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Post Mon Jun 17, 2002 11:03 pm

I'm with Rob on this one. No amount of bonding will stop the panel from warping once the sun gets on it. Alloy frame - it's the only way for plastic :D
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Post Mon Jun 17, 2002 11:16 pm

thanks phil...

paul you may be wondering why start the issue of using the foam. i only did it because of the scale of the job. i for one would hate to wait my 30, 60 or 90 days then to be told.. "eh, we will pay you but could you have a wee look at the buckling in the 200 metres of signage you have done for me..." :roll:

other than that i would have admired it and kept my gob shut mate... :wink:

p.s. i think this string of posts should help others realise there is pros and cons with foam board & make them think twice about how they will fit it.
these types of message strings are what makes the board valuable to others... cheers all for the input! :D
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Post Wed Jun 19, 2002 6:29 pm

Painted Boards

Thought I may as well add my tuppence worth. As well as signs we run a painting business, to have plywood stand up to the weather it must be properly painted. I come up against this problem all the time, a couple of coats of gloss is all thats needed is the usual cry.

A typical specification for exterior woodwork is a coat of wood primer, two coats of undercoat followed by one/two coats of gloss finish. All oil based and not this fast drying acrylic rubbish. Boards should be back primed as well to stop ingress of water from the rear.

We all know that properly painted boards will not last more than a couple of years outside and so we are trapped with the universal question of what do we do?

Paint the boards and it will cost a furtune? £20 a sheet for marine ply, £20 for paint and 2-3 hours time each sheet?

Or buy some plastic?

We have recently started buying sheets of 2.5mm Aluminium, around £30 a sheet 8 x 4. We paint them up and thay are the bees knees, again you have the work of using the correct system of Mordant solutions etc but they will out lats all others and dont "grow in the heat".

At the end of the day our hands are usually tied by the customer and we have to do as we are told!!
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Post Thu Jun 20, 2002 10:07 am

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