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advice on have creating a website plase?

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Mark Pettit

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Post Sat Jun 04, 2011 11:53 am

advice on have creating a website plase?

we need a decent website can any body point me in the right direction.

We are a small company and we supply mainly estate agent signs, but need to up my game? has any body had a good experience with a web person..

thanks Mark




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Post Sat Jun 04, 2011 12:03 pm

Try having a go yourself www.moonfruit.com is a good start you can play for free and everything is done in flash so you WYSIWYG principle is great for designers, you also have options for putting in your own SEO.. it's really easy
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Robert Lambie

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Post Sat Jun 04, 2011 2:58 pm

moonfruit for me too... as mo says, very easy to use, update and cheap too.
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KevinGaffney

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Post Sat Jun 04, 2011 6:57 pm

My only worry there is you say everything is done in flash. Flash is rapidly becoming outdated as it won't run on any apple devices such as iPhones and iPads. In my opinion that's a big slice of market you'd miss out on. Did mine in iWeb, dead easy and runs on everything as there is no flash
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David Rowland

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Post Sat Jun 04, 2011 7:37 pm

It's strange how the world wide web standards are being challenged by big companies.

my advise is always, get a professional to do it
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KevinGaffney

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Post Sat Jun 04, 2011 7:58 pm

Not sure Dave if it's a case of a big company challenging world wide standards. Flash is poorly coded, leading to computers running hot when on flash hungry sites. Batteries last about half as long and mobile devices that can use it, really struggle with terrible battery life. I think adobe need to rewrite the thing if they want flash to survive at all. I use all adobe software, it's great but they seem to take their eye off the ball quite a bit with a lot of their updates
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Robert Lambie

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Post Sat Jun 04, 2011 10:26 pm

KevinGaffney wrote:My only worry there is you say everything is done in flash. Flash is rapidly becoming outdated as it won't run on any apple devices such as iPhones and iPads. In my opinion that's a big slice of market you'd miss out on. Did mine in iWeb, dead easy and runs on everything as there is no flash


as everyone knows, iPhones & iPads are created by the same company Kevin, and big company at that. I know i am stating the obvious, but to say that because one company have decided to boycott a peice of software, it is termed as "outdated", is a lttle niave. i dont mean that in a patronising way mate. just trying to word this best i can...

first thing you have to ask is, why has Apple boycotted the flash program?
the answer is amongst a few things, but mainly because Apple are about to launch their own version/equivelant software.
so yes, A very good business move on their part, but I for one would not necessarily worry about this. not for a few years anyway...

Ipad's have already vastly saturated the market, but anyone i know that has one, including myself, use it for casual browsing of the net. not working from... same goes for mobile devices IMHO... they are a tool as sort, but altimately still a communiaction device whetever that be... phone calls, email, twitter or facebook to name but a few...


.
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KevinGaffney

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Post Sat Jun 04, 2011 10:50 pm

I see your point Robert, but my point is why not write your website in a way that can be accessed on all devices rather than some. It's not going to cost the op anything more. I certainly don't want to open the mac PC can of worms cos everyone has their preferences there. Personally I spend more time browsing on the iPad as it's so much more convenient than lugging a laptop around. I use iPad olio as a portfolio of my work. Find it far easier to show that to a client on site. Has been a great sales aid for me in the past
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Robert Lambie

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Post Sun Jun 05, 2011 12:22 am

Hi Kevin

Dont get me wrong mate, i understand your line of thought and agree with you.
I was faced with same scenerio some years ago. went the web develper route and more or less got the long winded way of being, how should i put it, shafted! time dragged on and on, as did costs...

so where do you go from here... i looked at many online site developing companies. many difficult, many had hidden ongoing costs, many limited in what they offer and more. i doubt there are many truelly 100% internet user freindly with all bells and whistles and integrating with every browser and compatible with every computer, never mind hand set and mobile. but moonfruit does give you a wide range of website tools at a very competitive price... very easy to use, change, update etc as well as integrate e-commerce fascilities, facebook, twitter and more. this does tick a great many boxes for me...
my server actually hosts a brilliant free to use website building tool, but i still opted to pay extra and went to moonfruit.
personally, if moonfruits advert stated at the end, the world can browse and view yourwebsite, do all uthis and more, but those with an ipad will struggle, i would probably just shrug and say, ill worry about that later. my issue jst now is getting my business on the web as cost effectively as possible.
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KevinGaffney

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Post Sun Jun 05, 2011 12:37 am

I know only the issue of outsourcing your web design to someone else. Had two sites "professionally" done in the past three years. Cost plenty and I was never more than probably 60% happy with either. The web designers I've dealt with listened to my ideas and then went off and mainly did their own thing. I've used my logo for probably 15 years and it's well known now. One of these guys tried to get me to change it to something done with aerial only telling me I needed a modern look. Spent a few hours couple of weekends back using iWeb for first time and I'm 98% happy with the resul and it cost me nothing
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Robert Lambie

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Post Sun Jun 05, 2011 12:46 am

Similar to my views mate...
but don't knock "their advice"... after all, we all winge and moan when so called designers try desiging vehicle signage and the like... if you have went to a "reputable" source, they should be able to guide you very well. in fact, much better than us lot could on our own. but most are there to milk us for what we need by blinding us by science, hats off to them really... us sign makers should maybe take a leaf out their book!
regardless, my point was more to get "something" that looks decent up on the web whilst allowing you to source something you can afford, or afford time on creating. rather than zilch!
It is always worth listening to professionals in their own Field, we are maybe all designers to a certain level, but it doesn't mean we are all good. it is the old saying, "we are only as good as your teacher"
for many/most of us... "who is our teacher?"
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David Rowland

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Post Sun Jun 05, 2011 2:50 pm

this is why I insisted that no flash parts were on my website that mattered, like in a menu as I knew that a lot of devices would struggle, the problem now is catering for screen different size (small-sized, ipad/laptop sized to 23" monitors that are now affordable) and accessibility (stylus/finger touch to mouse)



A whole can of worms we have now in designing websites, let alone getting people to view them?
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Mark Pettit

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Post Sun Jun 05, 2011 3:19 pm

website

will try a few and see what happens... we are a sign brokers, so design is definitely not my forte!!
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Dave Bruce

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Post Sun Jun 05, 2011 4:40 pm

Mark check my website out, the guy that put it together is not expensive and easy to talk too. I designed the site and got him to put it together, at first he said it couldn't be done, I recon he just wanted everything in boxes nice and easy, but he did it in the end and we have had loads of compliments.

I thought when the new IP5 (or is it 6)protocole comes out that flash won't work on it, may be wrong :-?

Cheers

Dave
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Mark Pettit

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Post Sun Jun 05, 2011 6:18 pm

website

whats the address? the difficulty im having is that im a sign broker(so i dont actually make anything), is that i sell mostly sell estate agent signs, so do i just go down that route, or do i go down a more up market design route... its a difficult confusing situation...
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Post Sun Jun 05, 2011 6:23 pm

Mark, press the (about ^ here) button marked www at the bottom of dave's post takes you direct to his web site...

Nice site, abobe fireworks probably sorted that, and loads fast too!
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David Rowland

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Post Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:59 pm

he cant mo... hes not UKSG
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Martin Pearson

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Post Sun Jun 05, 2011 9:03 pm

Mo, Mark won't be able to see the link to Dave's website. Not everyone on the boards has the same access.
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Post Sun Jun 05, 2011 10:14 pm

DOH! ........
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Dave Bruce

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Post Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:07 pm

www.chleire-haven.com no advertising for signs so should be ok here :D

Dave
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KevinGaffney

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Post Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:53 pm

Dave Bruce wrote:www.chleire-haven.com no advertising for signs so should be ok here :D

Dave

I'd have to say that site looks ok but is the opposite to what I believe a website should be. There's not an image to be seen so doesnt tell me anything about the whole idea really. Couldn't imagine that concept selling anything but maybe I'm wrong. Is there a reason there are no images
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Post Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:57 am

I think something must be missing in your browser setting Kevin, I saw lots of images
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Steve McAdie

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Post Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:54 am

No MO he's using a Mac and they can only play flash in an adobe air window and the images on Dave's site are done in flash.

Steve
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Gavin MacMillan

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Post Mon Jun 06, 2011 11:47 am

Flash question answered right there!
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KevinGaffney

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Post Mon Jun 06, 2011 11:59 am

That's the point I was making Gavin. Whether we agree or disagee with the idea of some companies not supporting flash isn't relevant. Why bother including itnon a site at all, it's not necessary and limits the amount of devices a site will be visible on
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Post Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:21 pm

I feel that would be giving in to "monopolization" of a market by apple. Flash is a great platform for designers without HTML and programming experience to create on.

Just because Apple have a bee in their bonnet about not allowing adobe products on their hardware shouldn't mean we should blow it out of the water. Because the next thing you know is, apple will bring out a product that can only be used on their hardware and that will force us all to design separately for apple using their software.

Adobe is the biggest design software producer on the market and apple is the biggest producer of design specific computers... They want the share of the market adobe has and they are strong arming their customers into following!

It's outrageous that they can get away with it.... ever tried transferring your contacts and data from an iphone back to a regular handset? What a nightmare!
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Robert Lambie

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Post Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:23 pm

As i said Kev I am not disagreeing with you mate. It's just not something i would concern myself with at this time. just my opinion of course...

has youtube stopped using flash?

of course not, Apple had no option but to create their own workaround for their iPad users to view that website or many people would indeed stop buying the ipad.
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David-Foster-

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Post Mon Jun 06, 2011 4:19 pm

This is why Apple doesn't want Flash...

Adobe issues new Flash 10.3 security warning
updated 07:50 am EDT, Mon June 6, 2011Adobe issues new warning and patch for Flash 10.3

Adobe has identified a new vulnerability that affects its freshly minted Flash 10.3 and all previous versions for all desktop as well as the mobile version for Android. Adobe has classified the threat as important and recommends that all users of Flash Player 10.3 upgrade to the new, patched version, immediately. The exploit targets users by sending a malicious link embedded in an email message.
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Dave Bruce

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Post Mon Jun 06, 2011 6:24 pm

Dave[/quote]
I'd have to say that site looks ok but is the opposite to what I believe a website should be. There's not an image to be seen so doesnt tell me anything about the whole idea really. Couldn't imagine that concept selling anything but maybe I'm wrong. Is there a reason there are no images[/quote]

Crickey you mean anyone with a Mac can't see my website properly? :( I wasn't aware of that and will speak to the designer right away!

Cheer

Dave
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Post Mon Jun 06, 2011 6:55 pm

I thought it may be worth mentioning that moonfruit, while everything is created in flash for ease of use, the program also creates a full HTML version at the same time, which makes it accessible to search engines, mobile hardware such as iphones and for people without fash software installed.

This feature also supports all the images on your web site so that no one is going to miss out on your details and images. This version is also viewable while you are creating the site through flash and is editable too!.... TahDah!

:D

BigMo
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David-Foster-

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Post Mon Jun 06, 2011 6:59 pm

Dave Bruce wrote:Crickey you mean anyone with a Mac can't see my website properly? :( I wasn't aware of that and will speak to the designer right away!


It's only IOS devices, iPhone, iPad that can't view it Dave. But their are 25 million iPad's out there not forgetting 100 million iPhones. :D

Cape Clear Island is looking good on my MacBook Pro :wink:
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Post Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:17 pm

Dave Bruce wrote:Dave

I'd have to say that site looks ok but is the opposite to what I believe a website should be. There's not an image to be seen so doesnt tell me anything about the whole idea really. Couldn't imagine that concept selling anything but maybe I'm wrong. Is there a reason there are no images[/quote]

Crickey you mean anyone with a Mac can't see my website properly? :( I wasn't aware of that and will speak to the designer right away!

Cheer

Dave[/quote]
It's fine on my MacBook as well. It's the iPad that doesn't show any of the images. Remember a lot of people looking up the cape clear website could be on holidays in the area and using mobile devices to look up tourist attractions in the area. Not everyone will bring laptops anymore on holiday breaks.
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Dave Bruce

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Post Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:16 pm

That's fine Kevin, as we are only pre book holidays anyway and normally full well in advance so if someone is travelling in the area to book the next night or within the week forget it we will more than likely be full. Our next free weekend forexample is after 23rd August :D

Cheers

Dave
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Post Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:58 am

Kevin, you may want to change your website and go with one of these other services.

Apple is ditching mobileme and moving to iCloud. You will keep email and contacts etc but they haven't mentioned iWeb and hosting which, according to all the forums, means it's dead. :evil:

Been trying to be positive with Apple but this is a kick in the wotsits.
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KevinGaffney

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Post Tue Jun 07, 2011 9:13 am

Hi Dave. They've already extended my mobilme until June 2012 at no cost. Received email this morning explaining everything will just transfer to the new service. I actually looks pretty good, take a photo and it appears on all devices. Wont see this lad moving
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David-Foster-

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Post Tue Jun 07, 2011 9:43 am

Hi Kevin, I am arguably the biggest Apple fanboy on this site (I said arguably :lol1: )
but you have to read between the lines.

Why do you think they have extended your mobileme until June next year, when iCloud is out this year? So you have time to move over to something else. When iCloud comes out, you can keep your email and contacts. Not all mobileme is being transferred. The web hosting won't be. iWeb hasn't been updated for over 2 years. It is more than likely that iWeb wont work or be updated for Lion.

Apple has history on this. Mobileme used to be .mac. Very simliar but different. A few years back all .Mac users had to move over to mobileme. It was a nightmare, lost emails, data etc for everyone. Some useful services disappeared. Parts of mobileme have disappeared recently, galleries for one.

iCloud looks great for your photos and music and documents. But I doubt you will be hosting your website through it.

I am afraid I am jumping ship where websites are concerned. (I have just been hit by a bolt of lightening) (hot)

Better now than in 12 months time when your website starts afresh somewhere else and loses its place in Google searches etc.

I might be talking rowlocks though. :o
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KevinGaffney

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Post Tue Jun 07, 2011 9:48 am

I have a hosting company where I had an old website hosted, it redirects now to the mobileme one. Ill keep an eye on this and I can always host my new one with them if need be. Would be a bit of a pain David, sort of handy to have everything the one place. Suppose this is the price of progress or whatever it is
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David-Foster-

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Post Tue Jun 07, 2011 12:26 pm

Just had a look at moonfruit. If you want to use a domain name and paypal it is £72 / year.
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Robert Lambie

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Post Tue Jun 07, 2011 2:20 pm

not sure im reading your reply properly dave....

£72 per year is for the premium package.

for your £72, you get the following...

1000mb storage
hosting for 5 websites
unlimted pages
20gb bandwidth
£30 worth of google adwords
Domain name & email
form editor
e-commerce shop via PAYPAL integration
members only areas on your site.

i have the business website at £135 per year which is buttons for any business to have to pay for all the above.

you can open a moonfruit account for free, have a play and see how you go... its very simple to use and update.
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Martin Oxenham

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Post Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:24 pm

Is this site done with Moonfruit ?
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Andrew Boyle

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Post Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:40 pm

http://www.wix.com/

a fun alternative to moonfruit

Cheers
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Robert Lambie

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Post Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:49 pm

Martin Oxenham wrote:Is this site done with Moonfruit ?



no no mate...

this site is built on the phpbb platform which has been completely hacked, chopped and altered to suit my needs over the past 10 years. UKSB and associated areas/sites etc are hosted on 3 different dedicated servers.

which is kinda my point...

UKSB has whopping great servers dedicated hosting only our own content.
The amount of web tools that comes with our hosting packages is unreal. there really is no need for anything when you look at the tools that come with a dedicated server. never mind 3 of varying size and ability.

yet i choose moonfruit for its simplicity and speed in creating a site to have at least something on the web till i ever get round to paying someone to sit down and make something special. to be honest though, we are inundated with enquirers since, and its only 60% complete.

i understand the whole, "it cant be viewed on an iPad" but to be honest, i don't care, and wont for some time. as i think mo has already pointed out, there is the option to save it as html or something else too...
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Robert Kulawik

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Post Thu Jun 30, 2011 1:00 pm

Richard,

I like it- looks very clean and neat, packed with features, but not in a messy disturbing way, looks like it belonged to a SAAB owner :-P
So, can you share with us what is it created with?

Greetz,
Robert


EDIT: got your name wrong -apologies! :oops:
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Neil Speirs

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Post Thu Jun 30, 2011 3:19 pm

Contact Neil at Action Signs, he'll help you out with any images and content required :wink:











:lol1:
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Robert Kulawik

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Post Thu Jun 30, 2011 5:29 pm

Something funny is happening here. Where is Richard's post I commented on? It just disappeared and now nothing makes sense...

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