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Post Thu Mar 11, 2004 6:35 pm

Gerber Foils

Got a call from Gerber today.

They have reduced there prices on foils, making them on par with after market ones.

£39 process
£37 spot.


:P :P :P
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Post Thu Mar 11, 2004 7:03 pm

GERBER EDGE CARTRIDGES

I HOPE YOU ARE GOING TO ASK SPANDEX FOR A CREDIT NOTE ON ALL THE CARTRIDGES THEY HAVE OVER CHARGED YOU ON NOW THEY HAVE LOWERED THE PRICE?
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Post Thu Mar 11, 2004 7:23 pm

My local Spandex rep has been trying to have our foil business for a good while now. I think they've finally realised just how much they have been losing out on all this time. We spend a good amount with Print One each month and that company take some beating. Thumbs up to Print One :D
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Post Thu Mar 11, 2004 8:06 pm

Re: GERBER EDGE CARTRIDGES

HEXIS wrote:I HOPE YOU ARE GOING TO ASK SPANDEX FOR A CREDIT NOTE ON ALL THE CARTRIDGES THEY HAVE OVER CHARGED YOU ON NOW THEY HAVE LOWERED THE PRICE?


???? Strange first post! :o
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Post Thu Mar 11, 2004 8:17 pm

HEXIS wrote:
I HOPE YOU ARE GOING TO ASK SPANDEX FOR A CREDIT NOTE ON ALL THE CARTRIDGES THEY HAVE OVER CHARGED YOU ON NOW THEY HAVE LOWERED THE PRICE?


???? Strange first post!



theres gotta be a 'hellio' some place round here :roll: :lol: :lol: :lol:
maybe the next one will be :wink:
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Post Thu Mar 11, 2004 8:20 pm

Hopefully he/she will find the caps lock key too!
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Post Thu Mar 11, 2004 8:40 pm

and get the correct web site address....
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Post Fri Mar 12, 2004 12:15 pm

Price of Gerber foils

Hi Folks
Hi Becky - who was that rattling my cage?
Hi Mr SignDevil - Thanks for the kind words - we try!

So - do we effect the might of Spandex!
Do they agree with our attitude that you should pay the right price?

To be honest it's the combined sales of DuraCoat & Sign Foils that disturbs Spandex world wide and especially in USA.

More News! - Gerber have also launched a new CMYK foil set - 800 series that will replace the 700 series eventually. Different profiles for the 800 series - as provided in Omega 2.2. One presummes that the new profiles will be available as a free download to the folks that are not on Omega 2.2
The foils are available in the US now - and are supposed to be cheaper. Home grown I suspect, they've been trialed over the last 6 months. They'll be as good as the 700 series. I wonder when UK will get them - or will we be the dumping ground for the tail end of the 700 series?

So - all Edge users should look forward to some price cutting over the next few months - which is good for the trade - competition makes us all work smarter and work harder to win!

Any P1 client that gives me a copy quote that beats our price - I'll match the whole deal plus 20% discount
I need the details on quantities confirmed. - Savings everywhere!

Don't forget - Spandex don't give out sweeties! Easter Eggs anyone?

So Becky - What was the deal ?
Let all your collegue Edge users in on it.
It usually involves a price match - complicated by how many foils you must buy to achieve the discount.

More News - renown Matched Media vinyl - specifically for the Edge - at prices that will make everyone smile, prices that no-one can match! Look forward to some great deals in the future that will imrove your bottom line!

Regards Dave Standen
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Post Fri Mar 12, 2004 2:10 pm

Got a call from Gerber today.

They have reduced there prices on foils, making them on par with after market ones.

£39 process
£37 spot.


that was the deal.

single prices.
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Post Fri Mar 12, 2004 2:11 pm

Is this ture? I just called SPANDEX and she swore at me saying £70. Does anyone have a number or a contact i can try?
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Post Fri Mar 12, 2004 3:20 pm

Gerber Edge Foils

Sorry for my etiquette, had some lessons today from an expert, I have updated my profile - sorry for the web site error, sorry for my egerness to join the site but I think its a great way for the industry to talk and ive only just found out about it! A big H E L L O to all on uksignboards.com from me! :D :oops:
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Post Fri Mar 12, 2004 3:38 pm

no problem mate. we understand :wink:

feel free to join in at any time you wish, just please follow board rules and refrain from sales speal replies.
this is not just you by any means. its board rules for everyone..

thank you for understanding and i look forward to more posts from yourself :wink:

if you have an avatar picture, please email it to me and i will load it for you :D
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Post Fri Mar 12, 2004 5:56 pm

OK so why have I been quoted £39 for spot and as yet no price for super cmyk and yes I would have to match what ime buying from Print one 4/5 90 mt foils a week.
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Post Fri Mar 12, 2004 7:51 pm

I wonder if Roland will follow suit and lower the prices of their colorcamm prices to compete with aftermarket ribbons - or will they no longer support the colorcamm now that they have released the Versacamm :-?
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Post Sat Mar 13, 2004 1:11 am

I think the answer may well be b) Phill :(
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Post Sat Mar 13, 2004 1:21 am

Well, we have 4 of spandex UK people 3 others from around the globe. about 10 from Roland around the globe amongst a good few other major players here on this site. i see them come on the site regular but post nothing, just lurk look & probably not really listen. They do know our opinions but choose to stay silent.
Come on guys.. Pipe-up, join in. we do want your advice & opinions or is there underlying reasons your staying silent? :roll:
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Post Sat Mar 13, 2004 9:26 pm

I think Roland are screwed with the colorcams and in fact unless there is some radical reduction in consumable prices , the whole thermal market is a little screwed as well.Perhaps not in the short term , but as far as future sales go ....well......
Apart from niche markets and specific applications , thermal is to all intents dying (IMHO) , the mnfgrs will support legacy thermal machines etc , im sure of that , but they must be running real scared right now , despite the bravado and denials.The price of inkjets is dropping , and now arizona have introduced a UV flatbed and roll to roll machine at under $40k , Roland will introduce a flatbed soon and most likely a lot under that.
I wouldnt pay more than $5k or even less for a brand new pc600 and Im not sure whether I would pay a lot more for an edge (If it could have done what I needed)

Having said all that , my PC60 still works all day long , still makes money , and was instrumental and vital for a lot of our application developments.
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Post Sun Mar 14, 2004 8:53 am

I`m sure I have read that the Edge has been reduced in price, too.
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Post Mon Mar 15, 2004 12:52 pm

We've been offered the same prices from spandex, we don't buy huge amounts of foils and have recently had a sample from printone and duracoat which we are trying out.

I think Spandex have finally realised they are loosing alot of business
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Post Mon Mar 15, 2004 2:13 pm

Gerber Edge

Hi Folks
Hi Rodney. Thermal is being considered a dying activity by folks looking IN from the outside - it's a different view from the inside out! Many folks have invested in Thermal and wish for continued supplies and increasing better conditions for business, and perhaps more economic prices to take on a wider range of work. Traditional sales talk from machine suppliers tells the trade to keep your prices high and cost of consumables doesn't matter because the end client pays - which the trade knows is B-LL S--T
You need more work of varying type, both high cost and low cost to work your machines harder to increase your output within the competitive field you work in - and it's cold and hard out there! So lower supply prices are a welcome feature of continued development in a mature part of our industry, and don't forget that Thermal is still the only option for spot colour and metallics printing, and it is still considered more reliable & durable than output from the smaller inkjet machine.

Becky - Price of Edge 1 complete set up from Spandex has been adjusted to compete with Roland VersaCam - just under £9K for starters! That's a good price! About the right price in my opinion!

Lorraine - Go for it. If you need any assistance or material (free of charge) in your testing, request same on the boards and I shall send immediately - and you could publish your results!

Prices of Foils There will always now be a choice of foil suppliers, some will be better than others. Reputations are still being built, some well built - some not. The point is - should you support them by buying their products? They are the suppliers who have driven your supply prices down! Who's price structures are now being copied? Price of foils is lowering - and foil quality is not the issue - price is now the issue.

Spandex is now contacting all folks who they don't sell foils to - they have the records, and they are now offering lower prices to those folks for a while - but I can guarantee that the folks who have been loyal to Spandex are not being offered the same, until they find out and ask for the same! The market is being stirred again - for a while, and a new level will be found.

I'm sure that inkjet will continue to improve and doubtless we will see spot colours coming in soon. That consumables market will soon start to heave around with alternative suppliers - renown for one!

Regards Dave Standen
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Post Mon Mar 15, 2004 3:03 pm

Dave,

I'd love to post the results of the testing, however, unforunately my knowledge of the edge system is very limited, i can only reccommend suppliers from the info i have gathered from boards like these. But once the edge operator has some info i'll gladly respond with their opinions.
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Post Mon Mar 15, 2004 3:34 pm

Yes , Im fully aware of what you say , I'm in the same boat as others that own ad have an investment in thermal.
As to spots , Im not sure why inkjets cant do em , I reproduce the whole pantone colour range on mine and can match up exactly to anything (within reason)
As to metallics , well we print the colour onto shiny vinyl so there is a a workaround there too. (albeit the colour does have a very slightly metallic hue , which is very attractive) I can't do white however.
Wearing both thermal and inkjet hats , I can tell you that far more and far better quality production is being done by inkjet. Unless ribbons decrease in price dramatically , its not worth my while to do anything barring really short runs on thermal. In terms of speed of print and cut and then cost , the figures are 1/5th as slow and 5x as expensive for thermal at a minimum!!!

Thermals are undoubtedly better in terms of durability and they are useable right off the machine and some doming applications are better with thermal in terms of ink bleed.

As to aftermarket foils , well I have had some bad results
with flaking of metallics from an aftermarket supplier and those flakes blowing my heads , they refused to take any responsibility , desepit photos and an engineering report squarley putting the blame on the flakes.
Problems with colours in a cmyk jobs (and spots) using aftermarkets are also evident , On non critical jobs , I use em , on critical stuff , I stick to OEM. (at horrendous prices from roland)
Often customers can put pressure on suppliers , the local Roland ppl were charrging R900 a ink cart , which is $130 per cart , one can get em in bulk for $50 or so
So I told them that unless the price reduces , I'll fly over and pick up 500 or so , fly em back in which will sort myself and others out for the forseeable future at a LOT less. A decent saving on a cart , when one uses 30+ carts a month ($45 x 30 ) is not mickey mouse
They reduced the price to R600 ($85) which is more in line with The $75 being charged overseas and was far more acceptable.

IMHO most of the machine suppliers are greedy , Roland and others tend to try tie one into their proprietory brands of consumables (which are often just rebadged generics) , if they want to play that game , why not just give the machine free and charge for consumables with a minimum consumption figure.
Either the manufacturers sell machines or consumables , customers like myself really resent the lack of freedom of choice , mainly due to poor supplys or lack of them in smaller centres etc. Others with other machines have more choices and we can't be competitive being "tied" in.
I think not informing loyal users of cheaper prices really sucks big time , those ppl have contributed to the co's profits and deserve a share of the spooils , yet they are going to those who have been fickle???
If a Co did that to me , I would dump em as fast as I could at the slightest opportunity. I helped a supplier start his co , helped with tech expertise , bought huge amounts from him (about 70% of production) and when he produced a brochure , I wasnt mentioned , just co's that were a LOT more expensive or "exclusive" than I were in the "we supply the likes of:" section.
I took it as an insult , he said he couldnt mention EVERYBODY (despite the fact I was his biggest customer by far) and I dropped him and set up in house and have never looked back. It cost me less and Im in control of quality , delivery etc. Supplier relationships are even more important than customer ones , suppliers dont realise that and a lot of them have the "Im doing you a favour" attitude , and all that does is really get my goat and make me find alternatives which in the short term might be punitive , but in the long term , pan out really well.
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Post Sat Mar 20, 2004 12:57 am

Well i have been looking at the Versacamm & edge for a few months now. Im getting more & more label & Heath & Safety work, so have just ordered the Edge.
Latest Edge deal is: Edge 1 + Cutter + Signlab 6 PRO + 1 blue foil & 10m of vinyl for £8,995
I know i can buy a used Edge for £5k, But i like the smell of new things :wink:
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Post Sat Mar 20, 2004 12:04 pm

you saved £4K on the price I paid 6 months ago.


Question for Dave.

I know you do a foil that turns the print into gloss. Does that also act as a abrasion guard ?
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Post Sat Mar 20, 2004 12:25 pm

Gerber Foils

Hi Becky
The renown GlossMaker only polishes the print. It does not protect in any way.
If the GlossMaker is used on top of Abrasion Guard - it will polish the Abrasion Guard.
It is to be used when you need the printed graphics to have the same high gloss as the vinyl media being used.
The effect is not dramatic - it polishes the print from the usual 'satin' finish to gloss finish. If you are using a mix of coloured gloss vinyl and maybe a printed logo - you need to polish the printed logo for the same overall gloss finish - or overlaminate with a gloss laminate - which gives total protection and the required finish.

Do you wish a free sample of GlossMaker?
Beat Regards
Dave Standen
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Post Sat Mar 20, 2004 12:38 pm

Roland PC60 consummables

Hi Rodney
You must try the new renown ribbons for PC60 available from Ideal Imaging in JoBurg. The new formula CMYK ribbons (and the new metallics) are so close to the OEM - it's a difficulty to tell them apart - brother & sister! You now don't need to buy the expensive OEM cartridges. Graham @ Ideal will sent you a sample set to try I'm sure.

I must repeat - the formula is BRAND NEW - totally different to previous issues. No Snapping! Excellent Isopropanol resistance, printing quality indistinguishable from OEM - they will compete (and win!) with OEM ribbons - try them out and report back.

Best Regards
Dave Standen
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Post Tue Mar 23, 2004 4:53 pm

Becky,

You might want to try the new SignFoils+ Protective Clear ribbon. It has 3 main benefits:

• It provides excellent addition protection against chemicals and abrasion.

• It enhances and improves the retention of the gloss of the printed graphics.

• It has been formulated to absorb UV light to further protect against colour change.

It might not give you the degree of enhanced gloss level that you are looking for, but it’s worth a try.

admin edit (please check board rules)
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Post Tue Mar 23, 2004 6:52 pm

Thanks becky and others :D
Just called Spandex about my edge foil prices and they matched those above without a problem. They didn't insist that I buy loads of foils from them but did insist that I kept it a secret and didn't let anyone else know :-? ....wonder why that would be ?? UKSB pays off once again :lol:

Nigel
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Post Tue Mar 23, 2004 7:46 pm

its definately a secret now mate :wink: :lol:
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Post Fri Apr 02, 2004 12:11 pm

I have been told that Spandex are not selling the foils at these prices, make sure that the ones that they have quoted you on are not the Colorset range.
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Post Sat Apr 03, 2004 1:51 pm

gerber foils

I can confirm Dave Standens comment that Spandex will lower prices if you persist in asking.
I phoned to get a price, i told the person that i had reason to believe the prices had been lowered, but iwas told the info' was wrong. " hours later my 'account manager' phoned back, and said i could have the carts' at a lower price, matching my current supplier. When i asked why, the reply was along the lines of "you don't but that many from us why?( price) "We'll match the prices".. How long for is any ones guess.

Darryl
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Post Sun Apr 04, 2004 11:21 pm

the prices quoted me were for the better foils, NOT THE COLORSET ONES.
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Post Sun Apr 04, 2004 11:31 pm

if we didnt have places like this to share veiws and prices can you imagine the amount some suppliers would get off with? :-?
spandex has been guilty of this kind of treatment from as long as i can remember that is why we stopped using them for day to day stuff about ten years ago. even when i have to buy from them i grudge it...
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Post Mon Apr 05, 2004 12:03 pm

Abrasion Guard & GlossMaker

Hi Folks - Hi Becky
Earlier in this thread Becky asked
'does GlossMaker protect in any way'?
and an answer was provided - but that's now incorrect. As of TODAY 5th April, the GlossMaker & Abrasion Guard have been combined to give an Abrasion guard with high gloss finish. So - I'm pleased to say that the new answer to Becky's question is:
YES - you can now have a high gloss renown abrasion guard. It's new and is possibly the best on the market.

Anyone want to win a holiday in South Africa?

Best Regards
Dave Standen
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Post Mon Apr 05, 2004 2:28 pm

dave
whot no sweeties in my news letter then

i surpose i got to buy some stuff before long

chris
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Post Mon Apr 05, 2004 6:30 pm

Dave.

Great news about the gloss maker.

How do your prices compare to gerbers, now that they have reduced them???
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Post Wed Apr 07, 2004 1:14 pm

Gerber Foils

Hi Mr Sticker
So you want me to send Flat Sweeties in envelopes?
If you don't order soon you'll be missing the Easter chocs!
And how come you're on this thread - this is about Gerber Edge and you're Pc60! Your last order was in November - are you running on vapour? Have you tried the new renown PcRibbon yet?

Hi Becky
Gerber Foil Prices. They have given the UK alternative foil folks a jolt and upset their own clients as well. There is dumping going on from the States to enable them to launch the 800 series foils. Soon it will pass and prices will stablise again. I'm always amazed that some folks give such absolute loyalty to SPNX - and they now know absolutely they're overpaying for the goods. What I can say is that our prices are permanently LOW and will continue to be so, our service is second to none - and we appreciate folks business and we KNOW there are alternatives, so we try harder. Whilst SPDX are selling cheap today - tomorrow is another matter - a bit of deja vu perhaps. I'm grateful to our loyal customer base that has had the experience to know the game being played by SPDX - I thank them publically for having correct size balls, (even the ladies that place orders) THANKS!

We always have a good deal to attract new clients - and you've been on the 'edge' for a while - come on over - Carol here will ring you and she'll organise a deal for you with a UKSG discount.

New GlossTopCoat. this is new product. To my knowledge, all abrasion guards in the market give a dull finish after application, as did our previous offering (now replaced) This product combines GlossMaker & Abrasion Guard - gives the same protection PLUS a Gloss Finish. What renown have done is to combine products so that clients don't have to hold stock of several finishing foils - just ONE. It's a premium product and is not as cheap as spot colour foils.

Best Regards Dave Standen

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