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recomendations for colour change

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Post Wed Jul 28, 2010 12:43 pm

recomendations for colour change

I know its been asked before, but there are now quite a few new materials on the market for colour change wraps,
what would you recomend for use on a Sprinter (new shape)
Have any of the bubble free been used for deep recesses with success?
Any advice appreciated

Peter
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Matty Goodwin

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Post Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:56 pm

Hi Peter

For me, and many of the guys I work with, Avery 900 all day.

Any vinyl that has grooves etc. to let the air out must have a loss of adhesion where the 'air' escapes (my opinion)!

I'm from the school of 'if it 'aint broke, don't (try) fix it'

Matt


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Post Wed Jul 28, 2010 7:16 pm

Matty, what are your opinions of 3m 85? I think that is their colour change stuff.
Also I spoke to Hexis today, their 2000hx is only available in 1360mm but can be stretched to 1700mm if done properly, their words not mine...

Peter
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Matty Goodwin

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Post Wed Jul 28, 2010 7:39 pm

Havn't used the hexis yet but the 3M 85 is good but prone to failure if not prepped 100% properly and heated correctly afterwards.

Got a big contract coming up with the new Avery wrapping film, so should be interesting to see how it performs!

Matt
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Jon Marshall

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Post Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:05 pm

We've used Hexis on cars, not totally sure I'd trust it on Sprinter recesses.

3M seems pretty good but not really given it a difficult test yet (they are changing it to a new adhesive at the moment I think)

I'm sure Avery 900 will be more than good enough, it will just be more difficult to fit given that it's thin and grabby compared to these new 'wrap' vinyls.
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Cameron Steer

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Post Thu Jul 29, 2010 3:29 pm

I agree with the "air free" thing but Avery do warranty it subject to training and completing their online assesment mistakes are easier, Oracal is 1520mm wide but we chose to only stock the standard repositionable adhesive for the same reason,100mic film is easier to work with and remove at the end of life so laminating something like 900 series or 951 would also make life easier if its in the budget.
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Martin Gray

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Post Thu Jul 29, 2010 3:44 pm

Peter the 3M 85 range is not designed for commercial vehicles!

Martin
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Post Thu Jul 29, 2010 5:02 pm

Martin Gray wrote:Peter the 3M 85 range is not designed for commercial vehicles!

Martin


Strange, I asked my rep if it was suitable for deep receses on a sprinter, and was told it was fine,
but you are correct, thanks for pointing that out Martin
http://www.sign-update-magazine.co.uk/S ... es-85.html

Cameron, is the 951 without laminate hard to remove after say 3 years? and does it leave a lot of glue behind?

Peter
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Chris M Hooper

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Post Tue Aug 03, 2010 9:27 pm

3m 85 series is sold as a car wrap film, it did state when first released that it was'nt for deep recesses as in a statement in this forum about a year and half ago.
I've used a fair bit but diffin





















3M 85 series the car wrap film is not guaranteed for deep recesses as stated in the write up on here when released a year and half ago not sure wether or not it has changed? Avery 900 is good they also have some new films out I believe as well.
Hexis is good as well I currently have that on my car.
New sprinter recesses are no worse then transit ones now as well.












ely a no no
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Lynn Normington

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Post Tue Aug 03, 2010 9:28 pm

(?) (?) (?) Chris


Lynn
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Chris M Hooper

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Post Tue Aug 03, 2010 9:30 pm

cat stepped on the keyboard god knows what happened then
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Post Tue Aug 03, 2010 9:46 pm

I have spoken to William Smiths today, they have confidence that 85 series can be fitted to a sprinter, I am however leaning to oracles 970 wrap as it is not air release, and from past experience, oracle stays where it is put, hexis only do 1370, but claim it can be stretched to 1700, but that would not be acceptable to stretch and then fit to a recess.
The best way to fit with least amount of joins is by doing the "top" half horizontally
I would go for avery 900 BUT easy removal is a condition of doing the job at a premium price. Most agree that 900 is not easy to remove
I have been invited to a 4 hour familiarisation/training session with 3m so will attend and post my opinions.

This is really a multi faceted question,
what I need is a vinyl that is reasonably easy to apply, will stay in a recess, and can be removed easily after 2-3 years,
so far I have not found a definitive answer.

I agree that the new sprinter does not have any really deep recess's
but my main concern is the removability, and a manufacturers backup if the recesses fail

Peter
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Andrew Gamble

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Post Tue Aug 03, 2010 11:38 pm

Hi Peter,

I think you will always struggle to get a definitive answer with regard to self coloured films on recessed panel vans, but for what it's worth here's my take on it!

Avery 900SC seems to be a popular choice but I personally don't like using it for the exact same reasons you've already pointed out.. it's an absolute nightmare to strip! I also find it discolours easily in deep recesses and doesn't give a very good overall effect, it doesn't seem to have a great gloss level when applied.

Avery Supreme is used also for van wraps, however if you read their product bulletin carefully you will note that 'some stress cutting and/or inlays may be required'... which kind of defeats the point of a wrapping film in my opinion, and may be a cleverly worded acknowledgment that it wont be warranted on certain applications??

Whilst people have correctly pointed out that 3M 85 series is marketed as a 'car wrap film' I have fully wrapped several vans in this already and had no problems with it. I have a fleet of Transits running around my local area fully wrapped from white to red, the first of which was done 14months ago and it still looks as good as the day it was done. Whilst I acknowledge that transits aren't the most challenging recesses, I have also wrapped a couple of VW Transporters, which will be about the same depth as a Sprinter and these too caused no problems.
3M are renowned for being quite conservative in their product bulletins, due mostly to the fact that their warranties are so comprehensive they simply wont market something they haven't tested at length first.
I have worked closely with 3M testing this product on vans and have recently wrapped a panel of an old shape Mercedes Vito (with the deep 'double recess') in the new 85 series, which now has Controltac adhesive and CV3 (micro comply) technology and this, to date, is performing absolutely fine.
I don't think there are any plans on 3M's part to change their stance and warrant this for the application on recessed panel vans but I believe they are going to review the spec sheet and be a little more bullish with regard to its capability, dependant of course on the application.
When wrapping vans with 85 series I always use the 3M surface preparation cleaner and post heat to 100 degrees, not the 85 degrees that is required for IJ-380. I have every confidence in this material lasting for this application, and, so far have several vans running around to verify this point!
Another point worth noting, and one i have pointed out to 3M, is that for all its marketed as a 'car wrap film' there are plenty of deep recesses to be found on cars... anyone done a full wrap on 03 onwards Vauxhall Vectra?? Check out the rear number plate recess on the bumper, I haven't come across a van with a recess anywhere near as deep as that yet.... and for the record i wrapped one in 85 series some 18 months ago for a client in Leeds and it performed in that recess, without the need to put a fillet in, and hasn't failed to date!

I dont have a great deal of experience with the oracle product so don't feel I can offer any feedback on this product.

I hope (if you haven't fallen asleep reading this) that this may be at least of interest if not help!
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John Enright

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Post Tue Aug 03, 2010 11:49 pm

Hi Peter, I've never had complete confidence with 3M wrapping films due to a costly experience. we had an order to wrap 70 vans (renault mascots) all in the same livery the schedule was tight as we had to print and fit 10 vans per week. The material I speced was Avery 1005ez we obviously couldn't print and fit 10 vans per week by ourselves so we subbed some of the work out the other company ignored our requests to use Avery and supplied the first 7 sets in 3M I refused to accept the decals as the material was not as I'd speced, so as a good will gesture they agreed to wrap the sets in 3M film free of charge all 7 sets lifted in the recess after 2 weeks and started to split and has to be completely stripped and replaced.

Even after 2 years having supplied and fitted accident damage the avery film is still down in the recceses.

I think whatever film you choose if you cure the film correctly so it stays in the recess your going to have a problem removing the film after 3 years

Good luck
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Andrew Gamble

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Post Wed Aug 04, 2010 7:25 am

John,

It sounds like you've had a bad experience, but I can't help but wonder if they all failed due to application error. In my experience there are unfortunately a lot of fitters out there who just don't understand the importance of post heating, perhaps this was the case, or even worse, a case where they weren't being paid so probably didn't care?! Or they may even have used one of the calendared films in which case no amount of post heating would prevent it from failing.
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Jon Marshall

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Post Wed Aug 04, 2010 1:50 pm

I have to agree. We have used many freelance wrap fitters in the last year or so and I don't think I've seen any of them properly post heat the vinyl. Not one has had any sort of laser thermometer in their toolkits.

The vinyl suppliers really should do more aswell though, like sending out a spec sheet with every roll that clearly states post heat temperatures required.
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Post Wed Aug 04, 2010 6:43 pm

thanks for the input Andrew some good comments there, I didn't fall off to sleep!
Peter
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Gavin MacMillan

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Post Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:00 pm

Thought I would bump this as it has answered a lot of questions for me. Thanks to Mr Gamble, though I am not up to your level of wrapping, you have given me confidence in the choice of material (85 series)

G

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