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Do we get what we pay for?

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Post Sat Apr 10, 2010 8:49 pm

Do we get what we pay for?

Another day, another part roll of vinyl, only this time I need a 5 metre unbroken run for some stripes. Out of the box, onto the cutter & out it zooms the other end - 1.6 metres short. Anything less & I'd have been none the wiser!

OK, not the end of the World, but this is the 2nd time this has happened to me, same colour, same company. It's not cheap either @ £10.00+ per metre (610mm)

This leaves me in an awkward position, as I have booked the vehicle (a coach) in on Monday to fit this, so now I either have to split & join it & replace it later or leave it off & fit it later. A pain & then some, as this is a touring coach & is rarely in the country. Who pays for my time? Me!

This left me wondering how often we get what we pay for? I've certainly never checked if I've received 15/20/25 metres when ordering a part roll. I wonder how many missing metres there have been that we've paid for but not received?

Cheers,

Gwaredd.
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Post Sat Apr 10, 2010 9:04 pm

Hi Gwaredd, I have often thought this. For some reason I have been receiving my rolls in two parts. A bit annoyed with this as we regularly order 25m of mirrored vinyl and the supplier has taken to giving us this in two rolls e.g 10 metres and then 15metres on another. Next time I order I will specify that I want it in one length. Slightly different to what you have said but it does make me wonder if I am getting the full 25M???
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Post Sat Apr 10, 2010 9:21 pm

This annoys me too, as sods law dictates that the join will be right in the wrong place near the end of what you're cutting!
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Post Sat Apr 10, 2010 9:46 pm

I was always given part rolls with less on them, so from then on always bought full rolls, you know what your getting :D

nik
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Post Sat Apr 10, 2010 10:02 pm

yes but that is surely wrong say you need 3.9 of a really odd colour, so to be sure you order 5 to be sure, and you know when you cut you don't get the full amount because of the sensors so you order the extra metre to be sure, if it's short you are in the mire :roll: normally only order a roll but that is colours that I know we will use.

Lynn
Last edited by Lynn Normington on Sat Apr 10, 2010 10:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Sat Apr 10, 2010 10:03 pm

most of the time we get more than ordered,
never had less, but if a supplier does joins, for part rolls, then they should at least ask if its ok before doing so,

peter
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Post Sat Apr 10, 2010 10:03 pm

I've never actually measured a part roll, so can't comment on shortages.

We used to get joined rolls from certain suppliers but I complained long and loud about it. Now we can still get them, but only after a phone call to check with us that the join isn't in an inconvenient place.

With both these problems, the answer is planning. If ordering is not left until the last minute (not always possible I know) then we always have the option to return the goods and order elsewhere. That'll only happen a few times before they get the message.

My current gripe is that some materials have started coming in 25 metres rolls rather than fifty.
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Post Sat Apr 10, 2010 10:06 pm

John is that cut or print vinyl ?

Lynn
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Post Sat Apr 10, 2010 10:39 pm

Lynn wrote:John is that cut or print vinyl ?

Cut vinyl Lynn. Two that come to mind are:-

Avery 900 used to be fifties, but that changed fairly recently, much to our inconvenience

APA cast is a more recent discovery. If APA UK don't want to stock big rolls I can understand that, but I've got the rep coming round on Monday and I'm going to see whether we can get fifties if we wait for delivery from Italy
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Post Sat Apr 10, 2010 11:20 pm

John I much prefer 50's than 2 25's our suppliers at the mo are still doing 50's most of the time, I expect they are going to say health and safety :roll: because of the delivery drivers, I have noticed on full rolls especially print media @ 1370 x 50 there are stickers on saying HEAVY !!!
maybe in the future we will only be able to buy a metre at a time cause it's to heavy to carry :D

Lynn
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Post Sun Apr 11, 2010 12:18 am

So far it seems to be confined to expensive cast materials Lynn. Well, I can understand the importers being happy with 25s because their stocking cost will be lower with the shorter rolls. Also, for all I know, perhaps the majority of their customers only order five or ten metres at a time, so the shorter rolls don't inconvenience them.

If those two points are true, then I can respect their business decision to only buy in 25s. However, it will be a pain if those of us that need 50s can't get them, even if it does take a special order.

And that's not taking into the account the green credentials of 50s. Twice the packaging for 2 x 25.
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Post Sun Apr 11, 2010 9:09 am

We have never had the option of 25m rolls until recently. Now they are adding them to their inventory on some coloured cast lines as people baulk at buying 50m if they only need 15.

3M here have advertised in the past that you will not get joins in the roll, but I did get a full roll the other day that was joined, so that may have changed recently.

I think Lynn may be onto something though Work Place Health and Safety here is becoming an issue with some couriers. They may have been pressured to offer a lighter alternative.

In terms of Gwaredd's issue, I have been short changed many times in the past, but I equally been oversupplied too. If I've ordered 10m and there is 12m left on the roll, often they will send the 12 for the price of 10. I figure that I win some and I lose some.

But, if I need 5m of an odd colour, or something I don't normally stock, or if its for a job that is hard to pin down, I'll order a couple of extra metres just to be safe. As peter says, I'll order it well in advance incase there is a stuff up too. Murphys laws says that if you can't afford to stuff it, you will :-?
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Post Sun Apr 11, 2010 10:03 am

Glad it's not just me then! Normally, I usually order an extra metre or so, but witb these stripes, they are just over 4.1 metres for an un-broken run, so 5 metres should be sufficient even allowing for +/- 0.5 metre. I shouldn't have to order 6 metres just in case I'm short changed.

We'd soon moan about it if it happened at the pumps!
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Post Sun Apr 11, 2010 4:36 pm

I had this before and discussed it on this thread

https://www.uksignboards.com/viewtopic.p ... ight=short

It hasn't been bad since I complained as I felt it was totally unacceptable the number of rolls I received.

I don't check any more that I get a least 5m if I order 5m but just hope it is, If I only need 5m of a colour and I get the job done with it I honestly am not overly worried if I only actually got 4.5m :-?

My biggest gripe (but understand fully why it's done by the suppliers) is when you get those small job and only need about an A4 size of a special colour and need to order 5m, I have a few rolls of 4.5m of vinyl that hasn't been used in years, customer has paid for the 5m as they insisted on that colour so am not stressed but would be good to order only a meter even at a premium.

but now I have a solution.......









.... I got a printer :P
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Post Sun Apr 11, 2010 9:34 pm

Also Warren Cherwell sell buy the meter, no minimum order.
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Post Sun Apr 11, 2010 9:50 pm

I have never even thought to measure out a roll, but now that I have a Graphtec I may just do it out of curiosity. With the old 4E I could cut a roll and literally have an inch or less leftover on the end if I babysat the plotter.

I get rolls in either 10 or 50 yards, the 50 are always factory sealed. My one supplier will cut me off 10 yards and probably is a bit generous. I had a special-order roll once, cast metallic fir green, it had a join but was unmarked and of course fell in a strategic spot. I complained and did get a free replacement, but it delayed the job. Usually there will be a label on the box that says "SPLICE" and it costs a little bit less.

Love....Jill
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Post Sun Apr 11, 2010 10:32 pm

we order day before we need it, always a few mtrs over... they will cut to the meter without a problem and deliver before midday the day after. Also most common colours in stock all the time. The measurements are on a label attached to each colour, would presume they are accurate.

Spandex Bristol never let us down for Avery cut vinyl
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Post Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:50 am

shortchanged

I would agree we all should check I have had an instance of running a 1220mm roll through to cut a 7.2m section of a graphic only to find not enough!! and there was 10m ordered customer not happy wagon off the road another day
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Post Mon Apr 12, 2010 3:53 am

I really hate joins in rolls. They should use them in shorter rolls or scrap them.

Were paying for a roll of vinyl not piece of vinyl wound up on a roll. It's like getting a 8x4 sheet of composite panel in two pieces.
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Post Mon Apr 12, 2010 7:39 am

i've had a few instances in the past, not with normal cut vinyl though,

twice on reflective garment vinyl (damned expensive for 500mm wide), i order 5m from one company and got 5 x 1m bits, the material is so floppy without it's protective sheet that you have to waste 150mm and stick something heavy to hold it taught on it, massive waste on separate pieces but the seller wouldn't have it!

another time 3m of reflective garment, joined at 1.7m, i didn't notice and set the whole lot to cut with customer files and then a load of my own stuff for promo, of course... all my stuff cut fine but the customer stuff went over the join... ggrrrrrr.

join on 610 white reflective, 10m roll and joined at about 6m, needed three lots of 3m out of that and luckily was able to recut the bad bit and get away with it.

most recently on some hi vis, 5m of 2yr hi vis, came with some other vinyls i thought i'd try, all 5m of each to try and hi-vis for a job, only the hi-vis had 5m written on the tape which i thought odd so, i rolled it out on the bench, 3.98m :-( did get it credited and had a spare couple of mtrs from another recent job that finished it so no disaster, but, somebody took the chance of sending out 4 as 5!

re ordering full or part rolls, what should be stocked by sellers and us...
I like to keep something of as much of everything as i can, I often get those little last minute "can you do" jobs, they can be a pain but, they can also pay ok for a couple of hours knocking up a little sign if the stuff is in stock. I would like to order full rolls every time but, space is a massive issue for me (as some of you will know), i'm literally storing most of my standard vinyl in the rafters! the racks wouldn't take full rolls,


Hugh

... just out of curiosity, i've had a quick look around me,

35 part rolls between 5 and 25m (when ordered) of 4-5yr 610 wide, and a dozen part rolls of different frosted and laminates are in the rafter racking,

18 rolls of 610 wide 751, a dozen or so garment vinyls and a few specialty chrome / carbon vinyls in a cupboard.

about 25part rolls or so of 851/951/551 and 451 in racking under the bench, and, finally,

about 25 part rolls (mostly reflective and high vis) stood on the end of the bench cos i've run out of space to put them away or in their home,

so that's what? well over 100 rolls of various media (not counted the 1200 wide oddities and the app tapes etc), if they were all full rolls i'd never get in the workshop!
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Post Tue Apr 13, 2010 6:31 am

We used to buy a 3M cast vinyl for our Summa printer. Always full rolls. Even the full rolls would have joins in them, some rolls more then one join. Damages in the vinyl would just be marked with a little red sticker around where the damaged area was. I'd expect more when paying £900+ per roll to be honest.

We're not using this material anymore due to price and the crap quality.

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