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Ruairi O'Boyle

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Post Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:39 pm

print and cut or separates

Quick question as I am about to place my order:

Mimaki CJV30-130 or JV33 with Mimaki cutter?

My current cutter is almost 8 years old although still giong OK its bound to give up shortly.

Any body an ideas? The separates seems to be a good bit more expensive!
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Martin Pearson

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Post Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:49 pm

Can't really comment from a personal point of view as I don't own a printer but try reading some of the older posts as the views are split. some favor separates so you can still cut other jobs while you are printing and others prefer print and cut because of space and cost.
Personally if my old plotter was working OK I would be looking at a print and cut machine. That way I could reduce the amount of work my old plotter did but still have it handy for when the printer was running.
There are guys on here that are running machines a lot older than you plotter and if you have looked after it then there is no reason for it not to give you years more service.
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Ruairi O'Boyle

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Post Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:02 pm

Thanks martin I wasn't thinking of using the print and cut for just cutting! Why I don't know! I assume the cutter side of a print and cut is comparable to that of a stand alone cutter?

I was through the old posts till the wee hours of the morning last night and it was that split I thought Id try again and see if anyone would offer a strong answer!
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David Rowland

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Post Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:13 pm

the main problem is the CJV is not sold as a duty banner printer, banners can head strike as it doesn't have many grippers because it is designed for vinyl work... if that is not a problem then go for it.
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Ruairi O'Boyle

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Post Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:22 pm

Thanks dave but what do you mean by duty banner printer?

The first job I have for it is 20m of banner!
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Jason Xuereb

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Post Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:51 pm

Print only machines have better media handling from what I've seen. Print and cut machines use pinch roller mechanisms and generally there are fewer pinch rollers. On these machins the PVC can heat up and bucklet between the pinch rollers leading to head strikes.

If your only doing short amounts of banner work this isnt a problem. When I had my first roland print and cut i remember we'd load banner let it heat up then unclamp it and reclamp it to reduce the effects of this problem.

Personally I'd got for two seperate machines.

I have both a print only and a print and cut.

My print and cut doesnt work with the take up in print and cut mode so most jobs over a meter get done on separate machines. it lets me print over night and finish it the next day.
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Ruairi O'Boyle

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Post Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:53 pm

Super Jason that has helped make my mind up!

Thanks all
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Post Tue Mar 23, 2010 2:43 pm

mimaki cjv does have lots of pinch rollers Dave
they move out of the way for cutting
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZ1CP0tY2Rk
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Peter
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Ruairi O'Boyle

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Post Tue Mar 23, 2010 3:41 pm

Peter, which would you go for given the choice? (CJV - 1500 saving approx)
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Post Tue Mar 23, 2010 3:48 pm

I have a mimaki jv3 and separate cutter, and when I go for a replacement I would opt for the same set up, mainly because it suits the type of work I do.
mainly vehicle graphics, so I have to laminate anyway.
print and cut may be very good for producing unlaminated labels and stickers.
and at the end of the day you will have to decide which suits your business the best.

Peter
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Ruairi O'Boyle

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Post Tue Mar 23, 2010 4:25 pm

JV3 and separate cutter ordered. Like you (peter) I imagine i will be laminating quite a bit of my stuff as it will be for vehicles and areas that will need the laminated protection.

Thanks for all your input guys it make this type of transaction a lot easier!
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John Childs

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Post Tue Mar 23, 2010 4:58 pm

Ruairi O'Boyle wrote:JV3 and separate cutter ordered.

I think you've made the right decision Ruari, although I think you meant JV33.

Like Peter, I had a JV3 and separate cutter. They certainly suited the type of work we do, and the way we work. Come the day we replaced with JV33 and another cutter.
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Ruairi O'Boyle

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Post Tue Mar 23, 2010 5:43 pm

John/Peter/Jason, another quick one if you can help: I am going with the Mimaki cutter (bundle) and the SR is approx £1K less than the FX. Do you use either or can you advise if it is worth the extra money?

Ill check the mimaki board but thought you might be able to help me quicker. Hopefully this wont flag up as posting in the wrong forum as it is linked to the printer.

You are right John i did mean the JV33!! :oops: Thanks for your advice!
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John Childs

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Post Tue Mar 23, 2010 5:51 pm

I don't know for sure, but suspect that the SX doesn't have the optical gubbins which you need for contour cutting.

Both mine are FXs. One 1370mm and one 760mm.
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Ruairi O'Boyle

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Post Tue Mar 23, 2010 6:15 pm

The supplier assures me the both machines will work fine for print and cut but I have told them to go for the FX but just want to be sure I am not throwing money away for no good reason!
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John Childs

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Post Tue Mar 23, 2010 7:43 pm

Ruairi O'Boyle wrote:The supplier assures me the both machines will work fine for print and cut

In that case, I don't know the difference.

I will say that our FXs are good solid reliable industrial quality machines.
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Ruairi O'Boyle

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Post Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:09 pm

John

Thats good enough for me! I will order the FX. Cheers
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Neil Riley

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Post Wed Mar 24, 2010 1:57 pm

Hi Ruairi, You've made the right choices IMHO.

I had a CG-SR here that was going to be bundled with a JV33.
I was really disappointed with it compared with my Graphtec 7000 it was like a cheap ebay plotter. They do contour cut okay but apart from that they're pretty basic and really slow.
The CG-FX is more comparable to the Graphtec in speed and build quality.

Turns out I ended up with a CJV-130 instead of seperate printer/cutter.
As a printer, the CJV is good, but it takes a bit more mucking around to get it going compared to a printer only.
As a cutter it's even twice as slow as the already slow CG-SR.

I do all my cutting on the Graphtec and most of my contour cutting too, it's just that much quicker and easier.

So yeah, get the stand alone JV33 and bundle it with a good cutter - you'll be glad you did.
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Robert Lambie

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Post Wed Mar 24, 2010 2:49 pm

I personally would not go with separate machines... definitely all in one.
i have both options just now, Print & cut all in one Roland, roland aj740 print only, two graphtec 54" cutters with on board contour cutting facilities... never have we needed to use the fascilities. i mention the range of machines simply to give my view as someone from both sides the fence, not just as someone that's opted for one setup against the other.

if we cut vinyl, we ONLY use our graphtec cutters.
we do not use our print and cut machines for cutting vinyls only... if that makes sense?
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Ruairi O'Boyle

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Post Wed Mar 24, 2010 3:00 pm

Neil thanks that make me feel more confident with my choice.

Rob I am worried my current cutter is on its last legs so I dont want to be left using the print and cut for vinyl work as a result of spending all my money on a print and cut machine! If you see my logic. If I had a new cutter I would definitely go print and cut!

Cheers Ruairi
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David Rowland

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Post Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:26 pm

with regards the CJV and banners, the company i used to work for ordered one but ended up getting it exchanged to a JV33 due to being miss-sold, the company i used to work for runs 90% banner and it was head-striking a lot costing them money.

If short run banner, then not a problem.

When we define 'duty' and short run, I mean you wont be running for hours on banners all the time, you waste factor will be high else on the CJV.
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Neil Riley

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Post Thu Mar 25, 2010 1:06 am

Just to counter that point, I've printed a fair bit of banner and never had a head strike with the CJV.
I have all 6 clamps set to medium pressure for both printing and cutting. The material runs through perfectly.
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Robert Lambie

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Post Thu Mar 25, 2010 1:44 am

Ruairi O'Boyle wrote:Rob I am worried my current cutter is on its last legs so I dont want to be left using the print and cut for vinyl work as a result of spending all my money on a print and cut machine! If you see my logic. If I had a new cutter I would definitely go print and cut!

Cheers Ruairi


yep, i see where your coming from mate... and agree... at the end of the day our pockets normally always make our decisions for us... :D
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David Rowland

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Post Thu Mar 25, 2010 1:50 am

yep.. good on ya Neil, but your country a lot warmer then ours, so the materials already cookin! :lol1:
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Mark Latchford

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Post Thu Mar 25, 2010 9:56 am

Dave
I disagree with you about the grippers on the CJV. Our 1370mm machine has 6 grippers and also an overlay gripper to keep the edges of the material flat to avoid head strikes. The only gripe I have on the mimaki is the cutting speed is not as fast as the Roland
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David Rowland

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Post Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:47 am

Mark, it was from another companies experience that I used to work for and what they did to get it changed, 6 rollers would be as bad as our cutting plotter that has 4-6 rollers to hold vinyl down and that doesn't do a great job, never lies perfectly flat.

The operator just got fed up and wanted the old JV3 back this was causing many head-strikes and it was the cold winter, the cold can effect materials as it does to our own JV3 that has around 20-30 pinch rollers.

If you keep the material at decent temperature and print in a lovely environment then you might be fine.

So it makes sense to have a machine that has multiple rollers to keep the material as flat as possible if your doing volume banners.

That is the main difference between the machines... the pinch rollers and the cutting side.

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