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At last - Climate change - the truth?

Is climate change man made or a natural phenomenom

Climate change is man made
7
15%
Climate change is a natural phenomenom
29
63%
I'm not sure - but we should cut back on C02 emmisions just in case
10
22%
 
Total votes : 46
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Post Sun Nov 29, 2009 8:13 pm

At last - Climate change - the truth?

Will the noughties be remembered as the decade when the world was suckered into believing Global warming was a man made phenomenon caused by the burning of fossil fuels.

Did the politicians deliberately lie to us and use CO2 as a reason for introducing so many new stealth taxes - or were they misled and duped themselves?

Here's a new book that questions current beliefs:-
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Real-Global-Warming-Disaster-Scientific/dp/1441110526/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1259521164&sr=8-1

In recent weeks other facts have come to light that seem to back up the claims that climate change caused by CO2 emissions is a myth
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100017393/climategate-the-final-nail-in-the-coffin-of-anthropogenic-global-warming/

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2426912/the_great_climate_change_hoaxs_coming.html

What do you think? Have we been duped or should we continue to listen to our politicians who are hell bent on curbing CO2 emissions with the possible detriment to world economies?
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Post Sun Nov 29, 2009 8:28 pm

As individuals or even a country, we have about as much chance of changing the climate as convincing the world to stop fighting.
One bomb and we will not need to worry about global warming anymore.
the Americans don't worry about it as a country, and the Chinese certainly dont, so why should I give a care?
Several incidents in recent history, probably didnt help, Bhopal and Chernobyl to mention two.
And when the iraqis (if it was them) blew up the oil wells in Kuwait.
it probably produce more polutants than the whole of the uks motoring emissions for the last century!

But then my local council will change all of that, they are recycling everything, even my bacon scraps!

Peter
Last edited by Peter Normington on Sun Nov 29, 2009 8:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Sun Nov 29, 2009 8:33 pm

Being a parent yes it's worrying. But I think we'll have blown ourselves up before any climate change could wipe us out. :-?
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Post Sun Nov 29, 2009 8:54 pm

As Peter has so sweety put it into a nutshell, I need not add anything to what he has already typed.

We could make a difference as individuals if we had the support and backing of (big) business's habits and overseas governments' habits. But we don't. So we needn't bother.
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Post Sun Nov 29, 2009 11:15 pm

Whilst Peter is probably right and certainly the Americans and the Chinese dont care.

As individuals to not care or not try to at least attempt to try will lead to a worse and more polluted world and the attitude is incredibly selfish and shortsighted and others will follow your lead for good or bad.

We as individuals make a country and the countries make a world if we as individuals show responsibility we can make a difference.

I now recycle all plastics, cardboard etc and have started composting this alone saves literally tons going into landfill and if I running a small business and a few small properties can manage this then if we all did it it would make a massive difference and have a great knock on effect.

But we do need folk like Peter and Gareth who don't care because not everything can be recycled and composted we do need to dump stuff somewhere so thanks Peter & Gareth you wont complain when your back yard is chosen!

Nigel

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Post Sun Nov 29, 2009 11:26 pm

Aha! Nigel!

I never said I didn't!

I said I needn't bother.

I do bother, but grudgingly. I do bother, but see little point, as those parties I mentioned don't bother. But still I can't bring myself not to.

I am even now looking at a pile of sopping pulp/cardboard which has been outside my place since last Wednedsay waiting for the powers that be to remove it (as I have already paid them to do) and then use it to save my planet.

Do I get any bonus points for not having used an aeroplane for at least 6 years?

Unlike some.

Ahem.

edited - question mark omitted.
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Post Sun Nov 29, 2009 11:47 pm

My problem is I believe the politicians have got it wrong. Not just the current leadership but all parties. Even Obama seems to believe it all and is set to take America off in a different direction.

As a result, one of the problems we have created are wind farms polluting the landscape.

Any physicist worth his salt will tell you that energy cannot be created from nothing, merely changed into different forms. So all these wind farms are in fact a bigger problem than burning fossil fuels as they extract energy directly from our atmosphere. The result can lead to only one thing....


..Man made global cooling :-?

Seriously :o
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Post Sun Nov 29, 2009 11:50 pm

I've got a bin compactor!...that's my bit done. :D
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Post Sun Nov 29, 2009 11:58 pm

When I was in school in the seventies, we were told that the world was headed for an ice age. Can so much have really changed in just 30 years?
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Post Mon Nov 30, 2009 12:01 am

We go to the shop and buy a product wrapped in 5 layers of cardboard and plastic then get barracked from 'the powers' to put all the packaging in 5 different coloured bags/bins to be put out on 5 different days, picked up by 5 different stinking great lorries to drive to a plant where all these people work who have driven their cars miles to work every single day......


.....WTF is it all about?


Just don't use so much packaging in the first place! Simple!

I'm just sick of the criticism of being against doing my bit when there is an easy solution further up the line.

Junk mail, free papers, pizza menus, charity bags, phone books, catalogues., on and on it goes....bottle of milk in mini market - staff put it in a carrier bag! WTF! It's got a bloody handle people!

I didn't ask for any of it in the first place! Can I be blamed for feeling put out for having to recycle it all?
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Post Mon Nov 30, 2009 12:49 am

I am going through the stages of building a house, well its full of climate change related items... i will eventually have a book on the performance and impact the house is on the earth!
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Post Mon Nov 30, 2009 7:25 pm

There seems to be an overwhelming majority that don't beleive global warming is caused by CO2 emmisions.

Why then do we put up with government propaganda like this?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w62gsctP2gc[/youtube]

We should all be complaining about this advert to the advertising standards agency. (hot)
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Post Mon Nov 30, 2009 9:05 pm

I picked up on this story last week and wanted to see how or even if it was reported in the mainstream media. I agree that we should look after the planet and what we throw away but you would of thought that if climate change was really that important to the powers in charge and we were really down to our last years on this planet, you would of thought that taxing everyone to try and stop it would be the last thing on their priority list…. You work it out.??


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/artic ... hange.html

http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2009/11/ ... proof.html
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Post Tue Dec 01, 2009 12:12 am

Phill wrote:There seems to be an overwhelming majority that don't beleive global warming is caused by CO2 emmisions.

Why then do we put up with government propaganda like this?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w62gsctP2gc[/youtube]

We should all be complaining about this advert to the advertising standards agency. (hot)

Well you start the ball rolling Phil, lets see your copy of your official complaint,

personally I think the advert is tripe, all rubbish should go into landfill, it's far more cost effective than pretending to recycle it.
earth to earth etc.

Most people cleanse their conscience by buying a "forever bag" from the super market, but filling it with over packaged foodstuffs that have been flown thousands of miles, and tap water dressed up in fancy bottles.

as for windmills, bring them back, what a nice way to way to turn crops into flour

Peter
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Post Tue Dec 01, 2009 12:24 am

Peter Normington wrote:Well you start the ball rolling Phil, lets see your copy of your official complaint,


I would love to Peter - but have already been "thwarted" by the underhanded censorship that is already in place
http://www.asa.org.uk/asa/how_to_complain/CO2+ad.htm

However, I am comforted by the fact that they have had to introduce this "censorship" - it just demonstrates that there is an overwhelming tide of public opinion that is not prepared to believe the propaganda.
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Post Tue Dec 01, 2009 12:30 am

There you go then
it is a valid complaint, and you are not the first to point it out,
Most of the government sponsored ads are propaganda though,
Peter
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Post Tue Dec 01, 2009 12:34 am

The problem we are up against is it has all party support.

No point in dumping Browns incompetent administration because the Cameron administration takes us down the same route.

Where's the democracy in that?
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Post Tue Dec 01, 2009 1:06 am

Trouble is we do not live in a democracy, as long as we have party politics.
We do not have a say in policy, only the politicians do, and only they do if they agree with their leader.
but unfortunately we cant do anything about it.

Time for a revolt? lets get all the old miners to march on downing street... :D

Peter
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Post Tue Dec 01, 2009 5:36 am

Just had one in Australia. we have a new opposition leader after the old leader more or less wanted to back our governments view. He was very surprised when a few members resigned their positions over it, led to a spill then a new leader. who knows from here :D
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Post Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:49 am

Peter Normington wrote:Time for a revolt? lets get all the old miners to march on downing street... :D

Or we could do the same as the French. Set fire to a few roundabouts.

Whilst I am not a great admirer of everything French, they do seem to get their voices heard.
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Post Tue Dec 01, 2009 12:14 pm

This from Sundays paper explains the con Please read.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/artic ... ntrol.html
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Post Tue Dec 01, 2009 2:11 pm

Just listening to a radio4 program about science. The gist of one part of it saying if you don't believe in evolution in the face of overwhelming evidence and the thoughts of the people with most knowledge, then basically your an idiot. The main point being that as a race we expect our opinion to count even when we know very little about what we say...

Sometimes bowing down to people who research things professionally is the only logical thing to do
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Post Tue Dec 01, 2009 2:38 pm

If you read the item linked then you will see that it was researched by someone professionally. There are eminent scientists on both sides but the governments of the world have jumped on the band wagon and now its too big too stop as whole industries have been built on the global warming THEORY.
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Post Tue Dec 01, 2009 3:02 pm

Gavin MacMillan wrote:Sometimes bowing down to people who research things professionally is the only logical thing to do


Economics has been fairly well researched over the centuries Gavin....how wrong did they get that? :D
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Post Tue Dec 01, 2009 3:04 pm

The Millenium bug - the so called "experts" instigated all the panic for that one - turned out to be yet another case of scare mongering.
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Post Tue Dec 01, 2009 4:20 pm

Phill wrote:The Millenium bug - the so called "experts" instigated all the panic for that one - turned out to be yet another case of scare mongering.


this was a bug that was in computers that were very old (but i sold two computers in 1999 that were not fixed), however steps were taking to minimise the risk, which included the major accounting programs. In the end the bug only affected a small amount... money well spent? not sure! lol
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Post Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:18 pm

How long do you think it will take to be reported in the mainstream media here in the UK???
I suspect they won't until the upcoming Copenhagen Climate summit finishes as if it became mainstream then that would throw a real spanner in the works!!
It's no wonder people are loosing trust in their governments.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rx5SRJJm ... r_embedded

http://www.prisonplanet.com/shocking-un ... shing.html

and a good long read if you're up for it...

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICL ... tegate.php
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Post Tue Dec 08, 2009 4:25 pm

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Post Tue Dec 08, 2009 8:14 pm

Gavin MacMillan wrote:Just listening to a radio4 program about science. The gist of one part of it saying if you don't believe in evolution in the face of overwhelming evidence and the thoughts of the people with most knowledge, then basically your an idiot. The main point being that as a race we expect our opinion to count even when we know very little about what we say...


OK............. so if we evolved from apes and monkeys, why are there still apes and monkeys!!!! :lol1:

Will now put stirring spoon away!!![size=12]
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Post Tue Dec 08, 2009 10:26 pm

Graeme Harrold wrote:
Gavin MacMillan wrote:Just listening to a radio4 program about science. The gist of one part of it saying if you don't believe in evolution in the face of overwhelming evidence and the thoughts of the people with most knowledge, then basically your an idiot. The main point being that as a race we expect our opinion to count even when we know very little about what we say...


OK............. so if we evolved from apes and monkeys, why are there still apes and monkeys!!!! :lol1:

Will now put stirring spoon away!!![size=12]


the strongest of the species evolved, simples...
the meercats are due to take over in about a million years.

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Post Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:56 pm

I didn't thnk we evolved from apes and monkeys. I thought the 'missing link was at the top of both 'our' and the 'apes and monkeys 'family tree. We and the apes both evolved on a seperate line from each other down from the missing link.
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Post Wed Dec 09, 2009 12:09 am

Darwin did not say we evolved from monkeys, he suggested we had a common ancestor. If we evolved from stupid monkeys then there would no longer be stupid monkeys.
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Post Wed Dec 09, 2009 12:21 am

No No No .. shtop shtop shtop. Why shouldn't the lower life forms continue to thrive after the mutated more successful lifeforms evolved? It's a bit like saying once we had invented skyscrapers there was no longer a need to build bungalows. Skyscrapers evolved from the same technology that allowed small building to exist. However, now that we can build skyscrapers there is no reason why bungalows shouldn't continue to thrive.

In other words - yes we did evolve from apes - but that didn't mean the apes couldn't continue to thrive in their own right.
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Post Wed Dec 09, 2009 1:43 am

Martin Oxenham wrote:Darwin did not say we evolved from monkeys, he suggested we had a common ancestor. If we evolved from stupid monkeys then there would no longer be stupid monkeys.


I haven't read all the related posts or seen all the links but my take on this is similar to Martin - I personally don't actually believe in evolution, well, I don't believe one species can change into another, there is so much evidence to prove this isn't possible. Evolution within a species yes species need to adapt and evolve to survive.

The evidence that we evolved from monkeys is actually virtually non existences and I don't believe that we did. If we did as Martin said there would either be no monkeys or a constant line of species bridging the gap between monkey and man. Though i must say I have seen some folk that could be that missing link!
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Post Wed Dec 09, 2009 1:55 am

Nigel Hindley wrote:
Martin Oxenham wrote:Darwin did not say we evolved from monkeys, he suggested we had a common ancestor. If we evolved from stupid monkeys then there would no longer be stupid monkeys.


I haven't read all the related posts or seen all the links but my take on this is similar to Martin - I personally don't actually believe in evolution, well, I don't believe one species can change into another, there is so much evidence to prove this isn't possible. Evolution within a species yes species need to adapt and evolve to survive.

The evidence that we evolved from monkeys is actually virtually non existences and I don't believe that we did. If we did as Martin said there would either be no monkeys or a constant line of species bridging the gap between monkey and man. Though i must say I have seen some folk that could be that missing link!


:shutup:
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Post Wed Dec 09, 2009 11:30 am

Funny how we see ourselves as 'superior' when we are messing up the planet as we fly and drive here there and everywhere, and throw all sorts of stuff away minutes after getting it, especially us lot in this hugely wasteful industry. I bet the monkeys are 'carbon neutral' and, left to their own devices, would continue to be. Now who's superior, us or them?
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Post Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:01 pm

Lorraine Clinch wrote:[:shutup:


Lorriane whatever does that mean? - go on Im really curious!

Nigel :-?
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Post Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:05 pm

Gareth Lewis wrote:Funny how we see ourselves as 'superior' when we are messing up the planet as we fly and drive here there and everywhere, and throw all sorts of stuff away minutes after getting it, especially us lot in this hugely wasteful industry. I bet the monkeys are 'carbon neutral' and, left to their own devices, would continue to be. Now who's superior, us or them?


Gareth you have gone full circle and are now advocating recycling and being carbon neutral when you had a different opinion at the beginning?

know what you mean though about superiority. A friend once said to me that he thought Dinosaurs must have had high intelligence, I quipped that cant have been intelligent as they lasted far too long - they would have wiped themselves out a lot sooner had then been clever.


Nigel
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Post Wed Dec 09, 2009 4:25 pm

Gareth Lewis wrote:Funny how we see ourselves as 'superior' when we are messing up the planet as we fly and drive here there and everywhere, and throw all sorts of stuff away minutes after getting it, especially us lot in this hugely wasteful industry. I bet the monkeys are 'carbon neutral' and, left to their own devices, would continue to be. Now who's superior, us or them?

No matter how you look at it WE ARE the superior animal on the planet. Our brains make us far far superior to anything else. When did you last see a monkey flying a jet ?.
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Post Wed Dec 09, 2009 4:50 pm

Martin Oxenham wrote:When did you last see a monkey flying a jet ?.

On my last trip from Washington I think.

An old lady had to ask whether we had landed, or been shot down. :D
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Post Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:28 pm

Just my (seemingly poor) attempt at a little joke.

And I wasn't advocating recycling back there either.

I was just gently reminding us all that monkeys do not use aircraft fuel willy nilly like we do, and in the process negating any attempts we make to 'save' the planet through recycling tins at home.
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Post Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:55 pm

Phill wrote:No No No .. shtop shtop shtop. Why shouldn't the lower life forms continue to thrive after the mutated more successful lifeforms evolved? It's a bit like saying once we had invented skyscrapers there was no longer a need to build bungalows. Skyscrapers evolved from the same technology that allowed small building to exist. However, now that we can build skyscrapers there is no reason why bungalows shouldn't continue to thrive.

In other words - yes we did evolve from apes - but that didn't mean the apes couldn't continue to thrive in their own right.


Its called "Natural Selection" The weaker lower life forms die out while the stronger ones evolve. Thats why I say we did'nt evolve from monkeys just went off in a different direction from a similar start. They still have'nt found that missing link. If there is one. Skyscrapers did'nt get here by Natural Selection they are man made. If the apes continue to thrive then thats not Evolution.
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Post Sun Dec 13, 2009 1:58 pm

I came a bit late to this argument. Herewith my 2cents worth:

YES, releasing all this carbon does indeed change the "natural" cycles around us, BUT keep this in mind:

a) We do NOT create co2 - we merely RELEASE it. That means it existed in the past, got fixed in oil, gas etc, and is now merely released again. It wil fix in non-atmospheric forms again. Its simply a cycle.

b) We are not ABOVE nor SEPERATE from the natural world around us. If carbon was fixed by plants and other life forms turning into oil/coal etc. over time, it is considered a natural (thus "good") process. If we humans burn coal and oil, releasing the trapped carbon, is it not part of the same process? We are PART OF the natural world, thus our emissions are natural.....

c) Life existed before all this carbon fixed/trapped itself. Life exists as it is released. Diversity etc. may change, but ultimately life will adapt to the higher released carbon levels, as it will adapt to that same carbon fixing itself again. We as a race may not be part of this "new life", but many other life forms wont make it either. Many NEW/OTHER life forms will prosper. Like I said, its a cycle. We are not above natural processes.

It seems a lot of you are also a bit confused between the differences of Global Warming, Pollution, Recycling etc. Pollution is the process of making something dirty. Carbon is not "dirty", thus it is not pollution. CO2 emissions are not dirty, but it does contribute to global warming. An Indian slum does not release a lot of trapped co2, but it is dirty, and thus polluted....

We can carry on as always. The brilliant part of our race is that we ADAPT our environment to our needs. We will be able to use this same ingenuity to adapt to a world with no oil, or coal, or with all the doomsday scenarios presented with regards to global warming. Policies and Politics are not going to change a thing. Adapting to our environment will be the future. Thats what we do..
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Post Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:37 pm

I'd be more worried if there wasn't any climate change. In this part of the world it can be sunny, then stormy, then snowy all in the same morning.

Just six months ago I was walking around in sandals and shorts now it's thermals. :lol1:

Change is good and natural and cyclic and although I'm sure we contribute a bit with industry and chemicals and science I don't think in the long term we cant do much irreparable damage that a bit of time wont sort out.

If its getting colder its getting colder, weather is planetary, we cant stop the planets turning and we cant stop the relationships between them changing.

Someone is gaining out of all this sh!t about making us accountable for every f@rt we drop.

Saying that I do hate a litter lout. :evil:
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Post Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:16 pm

OK lets put it this way, Gorden Brown has just promised billions to third world countries to help them reduce their emmisions, but we still rely on charity to run our terminal care hospice's and thing like the RNLI
somethings not right is it?

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Post Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:27 pm

Peter Normington wrote:OK lets put it this way, Gorden Brown has just promised billions to third world countries to help them reduce their emmisions, but we still rely on charity to run our terminal care hospice's and thing like the RNLI
somethings not right is it?
Peter

Exactly Peter. And the problem is that for some inexplicable reason - all the political parties seem to be determined to impose all these climate change measures upon us. At least Brown doesn't go cycling to work (followed by a posse of plain clothes policemen in Range Rovers) to demonstrate his commitment to saving the planet :roll:

James Martin wrote:Just six months ago I was walking around in sandals and shorts now it's thermals. :lol1:


That's because it's now mid winter - 6 months ago it was mid summer - So we've just gone through a period of global cooling - in the next 6 months expect to experience a trend of global warming again :lol1:
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Post Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:45 pm

Peter Normington wrote:OK lets put it this way, Gorden Brown has just promised billions to third world countries to help them reduce their emmisions, but we still rely on charity to run our terminal care hospice's and thing like the RNLI
somethings not right is it?

I totally agree.
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Post Mon Dec 14, 2009 10:04 pm

They ran out of airport parking space for private jets in Copenhagen and they had to import fleets of luxury limousines to cater for the delegates. :roll: :roll:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/copenh ... edges.html
The whole climate change swindle is just like the Health and Safety swindle, they havee created a whole business and industry around nonsense
It's hilarious :D :D
I'll stick with condescension and my condensation :o
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Post Mon Dec 14, 2009 10:24 pm

Why is it nothing surprises me anymore, basically saying we're going ahead with it whether you agree with the science or not....it's good for business!!
http://www.climatedepot.com/

One thing for sure in this life is TAX and DEATH :D :D

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Post Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:39 pm

How can Britain give billions to anybody, I thought they (Britain) were like most other western nations in that they are technically Bankrupt.
Hence the obscene grab for cash masquerading as a feel good climate change package.
Our Government doesn't want to debate its solution, Despite the fact that it seems it would render us totally incapable of competition in any commercial way, with any nation on this planet.
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Post Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:58 pm

Michael Potter wrote:I thought they (Britain) were like most other western nations in that they are technically Bankrupt.

Not yet Mike. But heading that way rapidly.

We're up to our ears in debt, but Gordon Brown keeps throwing money down the drain like a compulsive gambler at the roulette table, convinced that the next spin of the wheel will make it alright.

At the same time Harriet Harman is doing her best to heap costs onto business, and make us even more uncompetitive than we already are.

And don't ask about the printing of billions of new money. History has proved that that only has one outcome, and that's monster inflation. I know that, why don't they?

I really believe that our government has gone mad. I can't think of any other reason for their actions.
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Post Tue Dec 15, 2009 12:30 am

John Childs wrote:I really believe that our government has gone mad. I can't think of any other reason for their actions.


They haven't a hope in hell of being re-elected - so are determined to leave a legacy of huge problems for the next bunch of bozos that take over.

And take my word for it - if it wasn't for Blair and his war mongering - Britain would've done much better in the Eurovision song contest in recent years :-?
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Post Wed Dec 16, 2009 10:25 am

We do NOT create co2 - we merely RELEASE


I think Gert has got it bang on here. Though co2 is being released faster now than ever before because of human processes, so we are actually affecting the issue and not just part of.

This thread is hilarious though, luckily I think it sais more about the average age of forum user than it does about peoples opinions in general, I hope so anyway
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Post Wed Dec 16, 2009 10:32 pm

Hi Gavin
I am not really sure what your last paragraph is saying, however I don't think age comes into it I believe it says a a lot more about the actual subject. I don't know what happens in UK but herein Australia any reasonable debate has been choked, the government states this is what is happening so just trust us. Only one paper that I have seen has run both sides of the debate and that was only in the last few weeks after numerous surveys indicated that the majority of people were starting to ask questions. Both sides presented a good case with the pro climate change scientists tending to suggest Armageddon was the result if you don't believe us, they also all had their hands in the public money tin. Since 1990 intergovernmental panel on climate change have spent $100 billion Dollars on research and to this day no scientific paper exists that demonstrates that the late 20th century or the past ten years of cooling for that matter, fall outside the rates and magnitudes of the past (geological) climate change. With regard to carbon dioxide the early earths atmosphere contained about 30% carbon dioxide it was once the major gas in the atmosphere, it is now only a trace gas.

To me the whole debate lacks clarity & honesty. But it has become a massive cash cow to a large group of world leaders and companies all wrapped up in a feel good package, if you speak against the concept you are immediately branded as uncaring, stupid or just plain old.
cheers Mike
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Post Wed Dec 16, 2009 11:37 pm

my take is this, as an old geezer that worked in the oil industry as a lad, which was over 30 years ago..
the opinion at the time said we would run out of oil by 2000.
We needed to look at alternatives to produce energy to power our cars.
we are still using oil as our main source of energy. and unlikely to change in our lifetime,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_reserv ... _countries

Not really about pollution or global warming, just an example of how scaremongering by the big corporates and governments try to influence the populate to part with their money,
China will produce more pollutants in the next ten years than the rest of the world has in the last 70, which includes Americas contribution with 2 nuclear bombs

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Post Wed Dec 16, 2009 11:46 pm

Whatever happened to all the panic about the hole in the ozone layer?
(It's all blown over now - in fact the hole is getting smaller again so no longer a need to panic.)

My guess is "climate change" will similarly sort itself out and some other bogeyman will rise up to haunt us . And in 10 or 20 years time Gavin will become as cynical as the rest of us :-?
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Post Wed Dec 16, 2009 11:52 pm

Phill wrote:Whatever happened to all the panic about the hole in the ozone layer?
(It's all blown over now - in fact the hole is getting smaller again so no longer a need to panic.)

My guess is "climate change" will similarly sort itself out and some other bogeyman will rise up to haunt us . And in 10 or 20 years time Gavin will become as cynical as the rest of us :-?


What, you and I CYNICAL?
never........... :wink:

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Post Thu Dec 17, 2009 9:55 am

And in 10 or 20 years time Gavin will become as cynical as the rest of us


Quite probably :D

It's my understanding though that the whole in the ozone layer is indeed shrinking, due to the ban on CFC's, this was never really a big deal here but from talking to Australians, it was a big deal there and thankfully kinda sorted!
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Post Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:36 am

Talking about climate change "deniers" - I put it to you Gavin that you are the one in denial.

You only need to look at the results of this poll - 75% agree that climate change is a natural phenomenon. Thus we have proven scientifically and with overwhelming statistical evidence (75% of the voting). This is a scientific fact and cannot be ignored. :-?
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Post Thu Dec 17, 2009 11:17 am

Phill wrote:Talking about climate change "deniers" - I put it to you Gavin that you are the one in denial.

You only need to look at the results of this poll - 75% agree that climate change is a natural phenomenon. Thus we have proven scientifically and with overwhelming statistical evidence (75% of the voting). This is a scientific fact and cannot be ignored. :-?


And thats the truth !
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Post Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:30 pm

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Post Fri Dec 18, 2009 5:29 pm

The Co2 cap and trade system... explained in a dramatised way by Governor Jesse Ventura
:o :o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOYwur6T ... r_embedded
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Post Sun Dec 27, 2009 9:46 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TqqWJugXzs[/youtube]
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Post Sun Dec 27, 2009 11:39 pm

Phill
for every You tube against the global warming effect, there are just as many for it,

I dont really care, because it is beyond my control, and yours to.
talk and shout as much as you like, you cant change anything, just mature and go with the flow. that way you will die happier.

I have matured, (age does that to you)

global warming, or cooling is just another conspiracy, :D
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Post Mon Dec 28, 2009 12:06 am

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5rGpDMN8lw&feature=related[/youtube]
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Post Mon Jan 04, 2010 8:23 pm

I really think it's time the government (and government in waiting) re-examined their policies on global warming. I believe there is a real danger we are being led along a road to ruin with Britains insistance on draconian cut backs on CO2 emission's. We can not rely on wind farms to provide this country's energy needs. I urge anyone who is sceptical to sign this petition.
http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/warmingtruth/
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Post Tue Jan 05, 2010 9:06 pm

Current weather.......So much for global warming then or is Climate change now they've been found out.
You mark my words, if the weather starts to get colder and the seasons start to make a comeback like we all remember them in the 70s / 80's then they'll use that as an excuse to push the Co2 tax rubbish.

Peter wrote:
I don't really care, because it is beyond my control, and yours to.
talk and shout as much as you like, you cant change anything, just mature and go with the flow. that way you will die happier.


You're probably correct Peter, as time goes by I'm starting to think you have a point. :)

Alex.
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Post Wed Jan 06, 2010 12:40 am

Peter Normington wrote:
I dont really care, because it is beyond my control, and yours to.
talk and shout as much as you like, you cant change anything, just mature and go with the flow. that way you will die happier.


Thing is - while we're all chilling out and going with the flow "man" - we're getting ripped off and sold down the river by a bunch of hypocrites that are no wiser, smarter or righteous than you or I.

Question the buggers I say, and oppose them if you think they are wrong - don't let them dictate to us how we should live our lives. Signing the petition would be a good start.

No point in being apathetic then complaining in 5 years time when Britain runs out of electricity on a regular basis :-?
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Post Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:02 pm

According to a paper published yesterday by a team of Russian Scientists, based on the rate of cooling experienced in the Northern hemisphere since 1998, if this trend continues, by 2070 the current Ice sheet will extend as far south as Florida in the USA and the Canary Islands in Africa.

Furthermore - sea levels will have dropped by 150ft and Britain will no longer be a set of Islands but will become physically connected to Europe once again. As a result of this papers publication, Euro tunnel shares suffered their largest fall since the banking crisis of November 2008. :-?
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Post Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:44 pm

Sadly Phil the share price bit is incorrect. On November 17th 08 the price stood at €5.85, today it closed at €6.54 having levelled out after a steady and continuous rise since last July.
It just goes to prove that you can't believe much of what you read.

Actually thinking about it if the channel dried up then Eurotunnel would get all the cross channel business, bar air travel, unless P & O and Sea France managed to fit wheels to their boats, so I would expect a good deal of trading in the shares together with an increase in price. There was substantial trading in September, last year, (1.8 million) and to a lesser degree again in October and November :(

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Post Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:49 pm

That's what I meant to say Steve - the share price made its biggest rise since the crash of 2008 all precisely as a result of the factors you have just described. Image
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Post Thu Jan 07, 2010 7:32 pm

Phill wrote:As a result, one of the problems we have created are wind farms polluting the landscape.

Any physicist worth his salt will tell you that energy cannot be created from nothing, merely changed into different forms. So all these wind farms are in fact a bigger problem than burning fossil fuels as they extract energy directly from our atmosphere. The result can lead to only one thing....


..Man made global cooling :-?

Seriously :o


I originally wrote this back in November (before the current freeze).

Now I reckon there should be an urgent ban on windmills to prevent the current freeze from continuing indefinitely :-?
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Post Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:33 pm

u say windmills? how many will break down in this current freeze or shatter the blades lol

down 'ere in the south west a company has won the bid to place a number of windmills in the bristol channel!!
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Post Fri Jan 08, 2010 10:36 am

Have you noticed how it's never as windy these days as it used to be? Further proof that the windmills are depleting the energy held in the earths atmosphere. Eventually the atmosphere is going to run out of energy completely if no one bans these evil machines :-?
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Post Fri Jan 08, 2010 11:36 am

Phill wrote:Have you noticed how it's never as windy these days as it used to be? Further proof that the windmills are depleting the energy held in the earths atmosphere. Eventually the atmosphere is going to run out of energy completely if no one bans these evil machines :-?


That theory has been around for quite a while now Phill....want to borrow a horse and join the Quixotes?
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Post Mon Jan 11, 2010 12:21 pm

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/enviro ... pause.html

The Arctic conditions which have brought Britain to a standstill over the past week could be the start of a "pause" in global warming, some scientists believe....

...The world could be in for a spell of cooler temperatures, rather than hotter conditions, as a result of cyclical changes in ocean currents for the next 20 or 30 years, it is predicted.

:lol1:
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Post Mon Jan 11, 2010 12:44 pm

Now you see I'd finally gone and shut up about it..and then you have to go and start me off again :-? :lol1: :lol1:
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Post Mon Jan 11, 2010 1:41 pm

Phill wrote:Now you see I'd finally gone and shut up about it..and then you have to go and start me off again :-? :lol1: :lol1:
:lol1: :lol1: :lol1: nutter
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Post Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:25 pm

The wind farms are actually an attempt to rectify global warming,
governments have decided that the main reason for global warming is that the rotation of the earth is slowing down, so exposing every day (12 hours at the equator)to more sunlight.
as soon as enough wind farms are built, they will be reverse powered by nuclear energy, thus increasing the rotational speed of the earth, and returning us to our normal temperature.....

Peter
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Post Mon Jan 11, 2010 11:05 pm

Genius - like the propellors of an aeroplane. :D
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Post Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:09 pm

I can see a potential problem here Peter. With the inevitable government cutbacks the the units won't be able to run at full thrust and so instead of slowing earth rotation they just blow the air around the planet at ever increasing speed. It'll be standing behind an aircraft just before it achieves take off thrust.
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Post Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:51 pm

How about replacing the propellors with jet engines?

That will speed up the earth's rotation and, with the CO2 they generat, will help warm it up as well.

Simples.
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Post Tue Jan 12, 2010 2:01 pm

Good idea, and running re-heat at night would look very pretty :D
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Post Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:33 pm

Yet more evidence that we've been duped:-
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hv2NwFkM8rIdj6z931p20UW8Bbmg

And if anyone still doubts that these "scientists" are not stark raving bonkers - more hair brained nonsense:-
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1243947/Putting-baa-burping-sheep-battle-climate-change.html
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Post Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:48 pm

They need to do something about these guys too....it's a dangerous world out there! :o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQMbXvn2RNI
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Post Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:27 am

One thing that really Psss's me off is that bigger cars have to pay more road tax. I'am in the market for a large 4x4 because I have a new large caravan.
Now the road tax on these vehicles is going up again.
All this is because of global warming, which as we all agree has not been proven to be caused by man. So why do people who drive bigger cars have to pay for something that has not been proven.
I can't believe that companys like Land Rover have not bought a court case against the government over this issue as its losing them sales by the million.
Another thing is I only need this type of vehicle to tow so while using the caravan I am not using an airplane travelling across the world to go on holiday polluting the planet.
(Well actually I am at the moment because I still go abroad, but most people who use a caravan don't, but they need a large car to tow it with).
Surely this is better for the planet than using a plane.
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Post Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:38 am

What I find quite incredible and extremely cynical is the adverts by energy companies such as british gas and erdf promoting low carbon practices. These companies are only in business because they sell energy created by fossil fuels - so why pretend!!

If we all could cut our energy usage by 20% at a stroke - their sales would drop by 20% at a stroke resulting in a 30% or more drop in profits..

..do I believe they are sincere?.......do I (oh, im a bad boy!)!!
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Post Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:59 am

Energy companys charge a "Green Tax" so do airlines. So we are charged by them for buying their product.
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Post Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:44 am

Martin Oxenham wrote:One thing that really Psss's me off is that bigger cars have to pay more road tax. I'am in the market for a large 4x4 because I have a new large caravan.
Now the road tax on these vehicles is going up again.
All this is because of global warming, which as we all agree has not been proven to be caused by man. So why do people who drive bigger cars have to pay for something that has not been proven.
I can't believe that companys like Land Rover have not bought a court case against the government over this issue as its losing them sales by the million.
Another thing is I only need this type of vehicle to tow so while using the caravan I am not using an airplane travelling across the world to go on holiday polluting the planet.
(Well actually I am at the moment because I still go abroad, but most people who use a caravan don't, but they need a large car to tow it with).
Surely this is better for the planet than using a plane.


buy a tent martin, and back pack.
all caravans should be charged road tax ,and at a premium, no matter what vehicle is towing them, if only because of the inconvenience they cause the rest of us :D and you dont need a 4x4 to tow btw

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Post Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:27 am

Y'know, now that I've thought it through properly, I can see what the energy companies are up to.

First they encourage the CO2 carbon footprint thing on the basis that we all need to do our bit. Then they hump the prices up - knowing we will accept it because after all "we all need to do our bit" and government will not intervene because they are keen practitioners of pricing to reduce demand (and we all need to do our bit after all). Therefore, even though they are selling less energy - they are still making the same amount of profit through fleecing us with their inflated prices. But, here's the really clever bit.... Given that fossil fuels are a finite resource, they can go on fleecing us for years more than they would have been able to if it wasn't for the climate change lobby

Not a lot of people know that Image
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Post Tue Jan 19, 2010 11:04 am

Peter I do need a 4x4 as its a big six berth and 4x4s are only vehicle with the right weight ratio.
I can see your a Jeremy Clarkson type about caravans. Think about it when was the last time you were stuck behind just a caravan. Years ago when cars were different yes caravans were a pain, struggling up hills, but now most caravans are towed by powerfull cars that can easily overtake, and are no longer slowed by steep hills etc.
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Post Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:48 pm

Peter Normington wrote:buy a tent martin, and back pack.
all caravans should be charged road tax ,and at a premium, no matter what vehicle is towing them, if only because of the inconvenience they cause the rest of us :D Peter


Much as it hurts me to say this - I have to agree with Peter :-?
:yes1: :wink:
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Post Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:33 pm

For anyone to say "I believe" in something means they haven't got a clue what they are talking about.
They have simply taken a political decision to come down on one side or another of an argument.
We do have a problem of too many people using too small a world.
There is no fixing this until a population decline fixes it for us.
None of us have any idea of the truth of climate change, or what to do about it.
The irony is, Whenever governments try to fix something, the unintended consequences are always worse than the original problem.
For that reason alone, I would advocate doing nothing at all.
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Post Sat Feb 13, 2010 12:08 pm

Simon Worrall wrote:We do have a problem of too many people using too small a world.
.


I'd have to disagree with that statement mate.

The world has plenty of space, but it is mismanaged by the governments.

When countries throw away food to keep the prices inflated, rather than reduce prices or give it to the needy, it shows blatant mismanagement.

Until we stop worshiping the almighty dollar, and start thinking of others, population growth will be the least of our worries. :wink:

Climate change has become a money making business like anything else. And when lots of money is involved, the first casualty is usually the truth.
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Post Thu Oct 07, 2010 9:00 pm

Not sure if anyone's seen this advert that's recently been banned but how low will the climate change group go with their push that man made climate change (note that they use "climate change" now and not global warming) is still happening, they are using the kids now as most of us olden's realise that it's one big hoax!
No wonder this advert has been banned

Word of warning, it's pretty shocking even though it's fuzzed out.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8rXS0JGw5U[/youtube]

Absolute joke in my opinion
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Post Thu Oct 07, 2010 9:16 pm

Phill Fenton wrote:
Peter Normington wrote:buy a tent martin, and back pack.
all caravans should be charged road tax ,and at a premium, no matter what vehicle is towing them, if only because of the inconvenience they cause the rest of us :D Peter


Much as it hurts me to say this - I have to agree with Peter :-?
:yes1: :wink:


sorry Phil, I may have changed my opinion :D

but i would appreciate suggestions for a bumper sticker,


Peter
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Post Thu Oct 07, 2010 10:19 pm

How about "mine's bigger than yours" :-?
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Post Thu Oct 07, 2010 10:42 pm

:o Poor Lynn Peter, the pick-up is nice but it's not really a view! You just don't get this holiday lark, do you? :D
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Post Fri Oct 08, 2010 12:19 am

That camp site looks mobbed, you must have had to book months in advance to get that spot? :D
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Post Fri Oct 08, 2010 9:44 pm

Robert Lambie wrote:That camp site looks mobbed, you must have had to book months in advance to get that spot? :D


Don't under estimate our Peter and Lynn, this is the view from the other side of the camera when the sun goes down.

:cool:
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Post Fri Oct 08, 2010 9:56 pm

Martin Cole wrote:
Robert Lambie wrote:That camp site looks mobbed, you must have had to book months in advance to get that spot? :D


Don't under estimate our Peter and Lynn, this is the view from the other side of the camera when the sun goes down.

:cool:



:lol1: :lol1: :lol1: probably right mate... just needed the orange glowing sun to set the true scene. :wink:

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