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Roland Gx24 not tracking straight

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Richard O

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Post Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:29 am

Roland Gx24 not tracking straight

Hi All

Have a very annoying problem with the vinyl not running straight that has been like it since new.

I can put a roll of vinyl in align it with the front and back guides, make sure the roll is lined up directly behind the cutter and 9 out of 10 times it will run off sometimes before or sometimes after a metre has been cut sometimes to the left sometimes to the right.

At the moment I am putting thru 1m pieces and even though the vinyl is lined up with the guides it will still run off and it can take 3 or 4 goes at adjusting it to get the edge to run straight.

Even when I get it the vinyl to run straight (i do this by setting it to piece and then watch the vinyl in relation to the front guide) it does not cut straight.

If I cut a rectangle say 500mm x 900mm both width & length it will be out by between 1 & 2mm but the vinyl seems to be according to the front & rear guides straight, if I did the same with a 2m piece of vinyl it would be out by around 2.5mm.

I have spoken to the Roland Tech and he dosn't seem to be any the wiser although we did try a few setting changes but nothing worked and there was nothing else he could suggest.

Both pinch rollers have about 1mm play side to side.

I even thought that maybe the rolls of vinyl were not sliced straight but this has been happening since new around 2yrs now and it is a reputable company that I purchase from.

My greatest concern is when I set up a roll of vinyl in the cutter it is a real pain having to run thru the amount I require and keep adjusting it then find that it still dosn't cut straight anyway.

Surely it shouldn't be this hard should it???

Rich
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Chris Wool

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Post Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:03 am

if the pinch rollers have 2 pressure settings make sure they are equal.
are the vinyl roll carriers exactly aligned with the machine. and you are not allowing the machine to unroll the vinyl.

load of other things but you should have had this sorted with roland ages ago.

chris
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Lee Attewell

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Post Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:12 am

Are your pinch rollers clean? They do have little grooves in the rubber bit which allows the vinyl to track a bit better. Try giving them a bit of a clean with some solvent and a cotton tip.
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Gwaredd Steele

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Post Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:06 pm

We had massive problems with our Roland CM300 not tracking true a few years back. Roland engineers were baffled & changed almost everything.

In the end, it turned out to be a weak spring in one of the pinch roller clamps. Changed that & it's been fine since. In fact, just less than an hour ago I sent through some stripes at just over 4.5 metres & it tracked straight as.

Also, are your guides straight? Measure them of a straight edge & see how they compare. Even slightly out can effect tracking over distance.
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Tim Painter

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Post Tue Nov 24, 2009 9:29 pm

I always find the guides are just that, a guide.

I always pre feed a small distance and ajust a little on my Roland, although I have 3 pinch rollers as it's a wider machine.

If you cut purely a straight line left to right does it come out the correct length?

If it doesn't then it's something else other than the pinch rollers.

I can understand one dimension being out but not both.

Tim.
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Richard O

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Post Tue Nov 24, 2009 9:50 pm

Chris Wool wrote:if the pinch rollers have 2 pressure settings make sure they are equal.
are the vinyl roll carriers exactly aligned with the machine. and you are not allowing the machine to unroll the vinyl.

load of other things but you should have had this sorted with roland ages ago.

chris


Thanks Chris

Didn't know there was pressure settings for the pinch rollers just thought the lock/release handle was all there was - will check the manual again

vinyl carriers are exactly aligned with the machine and have been using 1m cut sheets to test so there is no vinyl to unroll

Load of other things but you should have had this sorted with roland ages ago. (Easier said than done (hot)
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Richard O

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Post Tue Nov 24, 2009 9:52 pm

Lee Attewell wrote:Are your pinch rollers clean? They do have little grooves in the rubber bit which allows the vinyl to track a bit better. Try giving them a bit of a clean with some solvent and a cotton tip.


Hi Lee

Yep cleaned the pinch rollers - no difference

Rich
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Richard O

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Post Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:00 pm

Gwaredd Steele wrote:We had massive problems with our Roland CM300 not tracking true a few years back. Roland engineers were baffled & changed almost everything.

In the end, it turned out to be a weak spring in one of the pinch roller clamps. Changed that & it's been fine since. In fact, just less than an hour ago I sent through some stripes at just over 4.5 metres & it tracked straight as.

Also, are your guides straight? Measure them of a straight edge & see how they compare. Even slightly out can effect tracking over distance.


Thanks Gwaredd

Got the roland rep coming out again later this week so will get him to bring some rollers and springs with him - also have measured the guides and they appear to be aligned front and back.

Rich
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Simon Stonuary

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Post Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:26 pm

I had this problem with a older roland pnc 960 , the issue with run out started to show itself only with vinyls that used a glossy type backing such as kpmf 700 & some of the metamark range. when cutting vinyl with more of a paper feel to the liner no problems were experienced i can only asume that its a problem with the gripping of the vinyl , whether it be pinch rollers or feed roller.try slowing down the cut as this often helps
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Richard O

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Post Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:43 pm

Tim Painter wrote:I always find the guides are just that, a guide.

I always pre feed a small distance and ajust a little on my Roland, although I have 3 pinch rollers as it's a wider machine.

If you cut purely a straight line left to right does it come out the correct length?

If it doesn't then it's something else other than the pinch rollers.

I can understand one dimension being out but not both.

Tim.


Hi Tim

1/ I do the same and at the moment I am using pre-cut 1m lenghts and align it to the guides - set it to piece and watch it go thru and it will run off so I align it to the guides again and it looks to be in exactly the same position if it still runs offI keep doing it till the vinyl follows the guides.
But when I weed and cut around the boxes the lines are not straight.

2/ you say -
If you cut purely a straight line left to right does it come out the correct length - do you mean correct length if so yes or do you mean straight if so no.

3/ you say -
I can understand one dimension being out but not both.

At the moment I am cutting Temp Tatts stencils that have weeding boxes around them and although the lines are not cut straight when finished the strange thing is that when cutting the stencils it may do half of one stencil then start doing the next one and so on but when it comes back to finish different ones it is spot on from where it left off there is no overcuts or misalignment the the actual stencil comes out perfect and these stencils are very detailed - so that tells me - actually I'm not sure what it tells me ?? (:)

If as you say the guides are only that then what am I supposed to go by - it is very difficult to put a roll in the machine - pre feed a certain amount thru and say yes that is straight even though the edge is not following the guides.

Rich

Rich
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Richard O

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Post Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:53 pm

Simon Stonuary wrote:I had this problem with a older roland pnc 960 , the issue with run out started to show itself only with vinyls that used a glossy type backing such as kpmf 700 & some of the metamark range. when cutting vinyl with more of a paper feel to the liner no problems were experienced i can only asume that its a problem with the gripping of the vinyl , whether it be pinch rollers or feed roller.try slowing down the cut as this often helps


Hi Simon,

This does it with any type of vinyl - I mostly use MaCal 9800 - MaCal 900 and Venture 480 for the Temp Tatts.

I have tried slowing down the cut speed but no difference

Rich
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Earl Smith

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Post Wed Nov 25, 2009 10:04 am

I use the same machine. GX24. 3 years old and , touch wood, no problems. Looking at mine I would say your problem could be either; one of the pinch rollers is not giving enough force , or the bar which carries the pinch roller has gotten bent so not allowing the pinch to give enough pressure.
Failing that it must be a problem with the electronics but I cant see how...
An idea..... Put a piece of flock in the machine under pressure. One roller to the extreme left and the other in the middle. Pull it through by hand ( machine turned off ). The rollers will leave an impression in the flock. Are they the same depth? If not then there is the problem.
Hope it helps.
Earl
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Tim Painter

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Post Wed Nov 25, 2009 10:45 am

2/ you say -
If you cut purely a straight line left to right does it come out the correct length - do you mean correct length if so yes or do you mean straight if so no.


If it doesn't cut left to right in a straight line it sounds serious. If the pinch rollers are holding the sheet firm enough I don't understand how you don't get a straight line.

How off is the line wiggly? or just off in relation to the carriage?

Tim.
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Richard O

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Post Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:16 am

Earl Smith wrote:I use the same machine. GX24. 3 years old and , touch wood, no problems. Looking at mine I would say your problem could be either; one of the pinch rollers is not giving enough force , or the bar which carries the pinch roller has gotten bent so not allowing the pinch to give enough pressure.
Failing that it must be a problem with the electronics but I cant see how...
An idea..... Put a piece of flock in the machine under pressure. One roller to the extreme left and the other in the middle. Pull it through by hand ( machine turned off ). The rollers will leave an impression in the flock. Are they the same depth? If not then there is the problem.
Hope it helps.
Earl


Hi Earl
I will try your suggestion but first before I go cutting up one of the the little ladies dresses, is that what you mean?? - if not what the hell is a piece of flock.

Dumb Aussie
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Chris Wool

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Post Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:21 am

neat idea that flock.

richard flock is a t shirt heat applied soft thick material.
not frock which will git you on bread and water for a week.

chris
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Richard O

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Post Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:34 am

Hi Tim

How off is the line wiggly? or just off in relation to the carriage?

No the line is not wriggly but for example on a pre cut piece of vinyl with a rectangle cutting box of say 580mm x 990mm when cut, if you then put a ruler on the cut line so that the ruler is lined up on either end the there will be 1mm -1.5mm gap at it's widest point, which is a lot over a metre of vinyl.

Rich
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Richard O

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Post Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:45 am

Chris Wool wrote:neat idea that flock.

not frock which will git you on bread and water for a week.

chris


Thats why I wanted to make sure, don't need the little women putting me on a diet of any sort let alone a bread and water one for cutting up one of her frocks (:)

Anyway the tech guy is supposed to be coming on friday so hopefully it will get sorted out then - already had them hear 6 times in the last 2 years but this guy is supposed to be the ants pants - I think I have heard that (oh i swore !) before

Rich
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Chris Wool

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Post Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:48 am

if you are saying that the box long line is a slight arc.
then as said before the pinch rollers have unequal pressure. or faulty in another way.
this will happen on my graphtec if i don't have the variable pressure set equal.

chris
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Richard O

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Post Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:55 am

Chris Wool wrote:if you are saying that the box long line is a slight arc.
then as said before the pinch rollers have unequal pressure. or faulty in another way.
this will happen on my graphtec if i don't have the variable pressure set equal.

chris


Yes a slight arc would be a good description but I am yet to find any info about the GX24 having variable pressure settings on it.

Rich
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Tim Painter

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Post Wed Nov 25, 2009 3:39 pm

It doesn't have variable pressure if it's the same as my old PNC 960 was.

Either the springs are out in pressure or something else is suspect with your bar they are attached to possible bent? Play at one end in the fixing housing?

or maybe the top is all good and the bottom is out, the knurled bar bent? or same again play in the end the bearings are? or maybe not aligned if there is such an adjustment?

Look forward to hearing the result of the Tech visit.

Tim.
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Earl Smith

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Post Thu Nov 26, 2009 10:01 am

Just had another thought after playing with my Flock over night...
If you put in 1.5 meter of vinyl, 100% square in the machine . Set it up in the piece setting so it runs the material through the machine front to back and back to front. Is the material still square in the machine? If it is then it is probably a software/electronics problem. If the material is out of square then its a drive/pinch roller problem...

Just a thought..now back to my flock....

Earl.
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Richard O

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Post Thu Nov 26, 2009 12:58 pm

Earl Smith wrote:Just had another thought after playing with my Flock over night...
If you put in 1.5 meter of vinyl, 100% square in the machine . Set it up in the piece setting so it runs the material through the machine front to back and back to front. Is the material still square in the machine? If it is then it is probably a software/electronics problem. If the material is out of square then its a drive/pinch roller problem...

Just a thought..now back to my flock....

Earl.


Hi Earl

It's definitely out of square so every thing points toward rollers or similar the tech should be here tomorrow so fingers crossed.

Mate you had me stuffed with the flock bit - even with my hypo brain in top gear I'm thinking why would he want me to put a dress (thinking it must have been a typo) thru the machine - even googled it thats how desperate I was and with the little woman standing there threatening me with a rolling pin it wasn't going to happen (chat.)

Rich

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