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How would you do this application???

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Post Wed Oct 21, 2009 5:15 pm

How would you do this application???

I have a 30 inch machine and have an order for 2 full outdoor, printed vinyl signs.

the first one measures 83x210cm and the other is 94x210cm to be stuck on windows.

I would like to ask how would do this on a 30 inch machine?? the signs are to be portrait and i could print the maximum length and then print the left over piece or the other possibility is divide it in to 3 pieces on the width. I want to conceal the seams as much as possible.

Thank you!!
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Post Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:04 pm

If it were me I would buy the prints in from someone with a wider machine reason being that I think you will have a problem with any joins as it is to be applied to glass. You are likely to find that you either have a slight gap in places if you try and butt the pieces together or you will get a dark strip where the two overlap.
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Post Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:25 pm

agreed with martin id bite the bullet and buy it in, it would be different if was not going on glass, craig
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Post Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:46 pm

I got to disagree,
the join will only be visible to a signmaker.
Tile the best way to use the material, and use a 5mm overlap.
Why buy in when you can make more profit doing it yourself?

Peter
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Post Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:26 pm

I have to agree with Peter its only sign makers that will look more closely than the customer.The customer will look at it once then probably never again ,money is better in your pocket than someone elses.
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Post Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:45 pm

I'm going to disagree with those who disagree. :D

I think it will be, if not exactly in-your-face, certainly noticeable, and every time the customer sees it he'll say, "that bl00dy Stuart Green did that". And maybe next time look for a supplier who can do the job without joins.

I'd sub out the printing, turn out a first rate job, and settle for a bit less profit now but hope to more than make it up on future work.
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Post Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:54 pm

John Childs wrote:I'm going to disagree with those who disagree. :D

I think it will be, if not exactly in-your-face, certainly noticeable, and every time the customer sees it he'll say, "that bl00dy Stuart Green did that". And maybe next time look for a supplier who can do the job without joins.

I'd sub out the printing, turn out a first rate job, and settle for a bit less profit now but hope to more than make it up on future work.


John I have seen most of the big supermarket windows with joins, simply because the windows are bigger than most printers, and would also be very difficult to apply in one piece,
very few companies could print and apply graphics to a 40 trailer in one piece, so they dont, and I doubt if the customer would notice the join,
would you expect a decorator to paper your living room in one piece?

Peter
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Post Thu Oct 22, 2009 12:18 am

No, of course not Peter.

There has to be sense and reason about these things, as well as the practicalities which you mention, but I don't think that that applies to graphics of the size that Stuart is talking about.

Parked outside, ready for delivery tomorrow, we have a pair of Crafters with 3.9 metre luton bodies on them. We did them in three 1.3 metre sections and I think that's reasonable. If we did not have a wide printer I doubt that I would have done them in six sections - I would have bought wide prints in.

It's not just prints though. In the days when we didn't have a wide cutter, and didn't know anyone else who owned one, we did, on occasion, have to put joins in lettering. I thought that they looked horrible and unprofessional and I upgraded my cutter to a wide model as soon as I possible could. Although I can't remember the last time we did it, even today, if a customer want lettering over 1200mm he's going to get joins for material availability and handling reasons. In a case like that I can't eliminate joins, but I will still avoid them whenever I can.

Just my opinion.


PS. All the walls in our house are emulsioned. It avoids joins you see. :D
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Post Thu Oct 22, 2009 12:48 am

John Childs wrote:No, of course not Peter.

There has to be sense and reason about these things, as well as the practicalities which you mention, but I don't think that that applies to graphics of the size that Stuart is talking about.

Parked outside, ready for delivery tomorrow, we have a pair of Crafters with 3.9 metre luton bodies on them. We did them in three 1.3 metre sections and I think that's reasonable. If we did not have a wide printer I doubt that I would have done them in six sections - I would have bought wide prints in.

It's not just prints though. In the days when we didn't have a wide cutter, and didn't know anyone else who owned one, we did, on occasion, have to put joins in lettering. I thought that they looked horrible and unprofessional and I upgraded my cutter to a wide model as soon as I possible could. Although I can't remember the last time we did it, even today, if a customer want lettering over 1200mm he's going to get joins for material availability and handling reasons. In a case like that I can't eliminate joins, but I will still avoid them whenever I can.

Just my opinion.


PS. All the walls in our house are emulsioned. It avoids joins you see. :D


well I could argue that you should have outsourced the print to a company with a 2.5m printer rather than have joins,

When I had a gerber edge (300mm wide) I was very conscious of joins, but in reality, the person viewing the print i.e. the person the message was intended for, never saw the joins.
I also found from experience, that if I didn't mention that a print would be joined, the customer never noticed it.

Peter
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Post Thu Oct 22, 2009 6:34 am

Peter Normington wrote:well I could argue that you should have outsourced the print to a company with a 2.5m printer rather than have joins.

Yes, I could have done that, but then we would have had the handling problems you mentioned. Of course, if we were doing trucks for Formula One teams, or somebody similar prepared to pay the big bucks, it might be a different story, but my opinion is that 1.3 metre panels on a run of the mill working truck or bus are reasonable.

Peter Normington wrote:When I had a gerber edge (300mm wide) I was very conscious of joins, but in reality, the person viewing the print i.e. the person the message was intended for, never saw the joins.
I also found from experience, that if I didn't mention that a print would be joined, the customer never noticed it.

About a month ago, we wrapped the sides of some Caddies, but couldn't just do it in one piece. We looked at it and decided that the best way was to print the panels horizontally so that we could get the join to come on the black rubbing strip along the bottom of the van. That way, the only place the overlap could be seen was in the eight inches between the end of that black strip and the wheelarch. The customer noticed instantly and, complained might be too strong a word, but he certainly commented on it and I had to call him and explain why we did it the way we did.

So, you could get away with 300mm panels, and I got comments with 1300mm ones. Could it be that our different experiences are what are giving rise to our different opinions here? :D
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Post Thu Oct 22, 2009 6:42 am

I know im not talking about print but prespaced here but I think some ideas apply to both:
I always buy in my print because i get great prices and brilliant service from my supplier.

Its easy to forget its not just the material which costs but time....if its going to take an age to do the artwork to cut on narrower machine...weeding....not to mention if its going to take an age fitting lots of little bits together and join them up or line them up and trim them etc etc ....work it out. If you build a good relationship with a supplier of bits which are larger than you can produce...ie get great prices, its worth working out your margins...at the same time it depends how busy you are.
I sometimes buy the roll of vinyl myself and ask my supplier to price for cutting weeding and premasking only...works out much cheaper than my time and much quicker to fit.

I would let cutomer know that there would be joins and gage a reaction.

swings and roundabouts really.
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Post Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:00 am

John Childs wrote:I'm going to disagree with those who disagree. :D

I think it will be, if not exactly in-your-face, certainly noticeable, and every time the customer sees it he'll say, "that bl00dy Stuart Green did that". And maybe next time look for a supplier who can do the job without joins.

I'd sub out the printing, turn out a first rate job, and settle for a bit less profit now but hope to more than make it up on future work.


Well I'm going to disagree with those who disagree with those that disagree.....

...err what was the question again :oops:
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Post Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:03 am

John, I don't think you differing experiences are a factor at all. I don't know why 40 foot trailers got a mention either because if this had been a print applied to a trailer or a board then I might have given different advice.
My opinion is that you do notice the joins when applied to glass because you get a darker strip where the overlap is which is depending on light at various times of the day will look worse at some times than others.

The other reason I would buy in is because of the difficulty fitting a tiled graphic if you have little experience in applying vinyl and tiling graphics.

Stuart Green wrote:I have recently bought a vp300 and i find it difficult to do sign making as i am not good with my hands when it comes to installation of graphics. I have thought of work where i can just print and send or buyers can collect. does anyone have any suggestions on what kind of work i could go for and be able to point me in the right direction??

cheers
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Post Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:07 am

Phill wrote:...err what was the question again :oops:

Bit early for you Phill? :P
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Post Thu Oct 22, 2009 4:23 pm

Stuart what have you started here ????? (chat.)
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Post Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:51 pm

Wouldn't it be simpler to offer the customer the choice? Honesty being the best policy and all that!

Oo
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Post Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:38 pm

LOL. :o its an interesting insight in to how people do things!!
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Post Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:51 pm

Stuart Green wrote:LOL. :o its an interesting insight in to how people do things!!

So, what you going to do Stuart? :P

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