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Post Mon Jan 26, 2004 6:20 pm

squeegee rip-off!

hi all, ok im on for a rant here..
i buy in my squeegees like most of you. packs of 10,20 but most often about 50.
lately i have been testing various types and today i noticed i was out of felt ones. i called amari for mactac squeegees but my branch only had the thin felt ones. i prefer the thicker ones & i was urgent so i called KPMF direct. i asked for a pack of 20 and got them next day as promised.
went to send them a cheque and they were asking £5.57 +vat each!!!
so at this moment we are sending a cheque for £130.90 for 20 small blocks of felt?? i mean who are they kidding?
i was buying the same felt squeegees from finline (KPMF previous supplier) for under £2 if im correct i think about £1.75.
we even called back to check if they got it right, oh yes, they said!

anyway thats my rant over, anyone else notice vast increases?
i do not mind paying more for a decent squeegee but paying one price for so long then a jump like this bugs me. :roll:
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Post Mon Jan 26, 2004 7:13 pm

I paid £2.50 + VAT last time from Andersons and lets be honest a quid for a bit of felt would have been quite sufficient.
And don’t lets have any of this, ‘it’s special stuff you know’. I bet it’s the same as used for loads of different applications, and it’s dirt-cheap. It’s only when chopped up into small blocks that it becomes £5 odd apiece.

You do realise Rob that you’ve just paid the equivalent of £929.00 per square metre for felt. OUCH.
I wish I could add value like that to a metre of vinyl.


Alan
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Post Mon Jan 26, 2004 8:24 pm

squeegy

Alan said"You do realise Rob that you’ve just paid the equivalent of £929.00 per square metre for felt"



Alan, stop it, your're scaring me!!!!! :cry: :cry: :cry:
Darryl
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Post Mon Jan 26, 2004 8:33 pm

:lol: :lol: :lol:
alan your right mate... thinking on it like that makes me even more angry. :evil:

ah well.. its paid now, but i can assure you they have lost a good squeegee customer :lol: :lol: :wink:
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Post Mon Jan 26, 2004 9:13 pm

Blimey, I'm amazed. I'm ex Fineline as you know Robert, and if I had a penny for every time someone told me that Fineline were expensive I'd have...........about 59p.

I don't know what we paid for the felt but it came in approx 1m square sheets, was printed with the logo and was then chopped. Quite a cheap process and I shouldn't imagine the felt was very expensive. I think that the price of squeegees in general is a big rip off. So there.
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Post Mon Jan 26, 2004 9:23 pm

Dorotape Squeegees are £2.26 each or £21 for 10! :D

In my case that's a lifetime of Squeegees!
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Post Mon Jan 26, 2004 9:42 pm

Rob...
Another good reason to go to trade shows and live meets!
FREE felt squeeqees AND L'il Chislers!
Yeehaw! I always bring a BIG purse to these things.
(Sometimes they have donuts too!)
Luv
JILL (hot)
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Post Mon Jan 26, 2004 10:12 pm

Okay, I see the gripe here but (theres always a but :-? ) call me an old fuddy duddy cynical skin flint, can't we as a group source the material used to make a Mactac squeegee? I live less than 20 minutes from what was the fabric capital of the UK at one time, surely there must be people who stock this stuff? And for just shy of a grand per metre, I'll volunteer to cut it up :wink:

Cheers, Dewi
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Post Mon Jan 26, 2004 11:13 pm

Thats not a bad idea Dewi, I just spent 10secs looking and found this site -
http://www.hardy-hanson.co.uk
Looks like they could produce that sort of think easy - Rob could get in touch and do some personalised UKSG ones :lol:

I think the plastic ones are a b****y rip off too unless you buy the real cheap ones. 3M gold are nice to use but just a stupid price.

Nigel
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Post Tue Jan 27, 2004 12:39 am

C'mon Lambie
.....get that inventors cap on and make a better squeegee!
UKSG branded felt squeegees - wot a good idea.
Just hope the members get a discount :wink:
Cheers
Joe
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I Haff Ze Formula For Ze Nieu Skveegee Scottie!
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Post Tue Jan 27, 2004 1:00 am

Nice one guys, already a few steps ahead of you on this one.
If you check on back posts, you will see the reason I have been trying so many squeegees is because I am trying to come up with one of my own.
I have sketched, tried mock-ups you name it.. Ive tried all the good and some bad ones on the market today. None are 100% but some of the best I could easily improve on.
Hardy&hanson.. Tried them too mate. The problem is, companies like KPMF, MACTAC, Avery etc etc have all been using these for some time.
Even when I called (on the bluff) they actually came out and said we supply sign suppliers with something like you are looking for.. doh! (rumbled) :o
There is more to it than a block of felt. Well not really but the right thickness, density & type of felt, all comes into account.
It is easy to cut the material, but it is better to get them cut. Gives sharper neater edges.

They wont supply in short runs. I was talking a min order of 1000. It’s hard getting a price because they already have an idea of what they are being sold at. So don’t do you any favours, well realistic prices anyway.

On the subject of what I have come up with so far.. Well it’s a bit of both. Much cheaper all rounder for everyone and more life from the squeegee.

Watch this space..
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Post Tue Jan 27, 2004 10:45 am

So if I'm understanding this correctly (unusual for me :-? ) a felt squeegee is in fact a simple piece of felt? And the problem of supply arises because the supplier realises it's use and value, so bumps the price up? The answer then is for someone to approach one of these suppliers with an 'alternative' use for the same material, buy it enmass and have it chopped & cropped inhouse.

Any suggestions on the alternative use? Its going to have to be a realistic use. One use is padding the headboards on domestic sunbeds, using the material as an alternative to the soft foams available atm.

Cheers, Dewi

P.S. Hows about when we have the material, branding it 'McRub' :wink:
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Post Tue Jan 27, 2004 11:14 am

I have an idea Dewi!, how about felt "block" protection pads for shipping use. A block on each corner and one in the centre of the super spangly diamond encrusted, sapphire edged particle beam plates i manufacture before laying another super spangly diamond encrusted, sapphire edged particle beam plate on top of it. etc etc. :wink: :wink:
Gaz
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Post Tue Jan 27, 2004 1:00 pm

This looks an interesting site?

http://www.feltsupplies.co.uk/quality_table.html


Alan
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Post Tue Jan 27, 2004 10:19 pm

Found out today what the alternative use is for this felt. Its used to pad large speaker units! Bizarre! :o

Anyway, had some words today with another businessy-type who says he'll get prices for me tomorrow, and if the price is right, he'll order in for me... which is nice :D

"Your squeegee causing problems? Use a McRub! Satisfaction guarenteed!" :lol: :lol:

Cheers, Dewi
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Post Tue Jan 27, 2004 10:30 pm

When we were looking to make our own felt squeegees we got some samples of the material sent to us. Even though they were all the same thickness they came in varying degrees of bendiness (real word). We worked with some of these samples for a bit and judged them once they had swollen from wet application and the edges had softened etc.

Point being, just because it's felt don't make it a felt squeegee. Obviously no-one here is daft enough to buy 10 squillion sheets of felt without trying it out first........so I'll shut up now.
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Post Wed Jan 28, 2004 10:29 pm

You could have posted this before I ordered 70k worth of felt!!!! :evil:

:lol: :lol: :wink:

I realised it might be better to get a sample before ordering, like you say, it may look the same but if it doesn't perform the same its pretty useless :-?

I got to wondering today though what type of plastic 3M uses for their gold squeegees. :wink: I'm blaming these thoughts on sheer tiredness atm though, its been a long week so far :-?

Cheers, Dewi
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Post Thu Jan 29, 2004 12:35 am

Dewi - I hope you will post some pictures of your shop once it's all finished. This must be an exciting time for you :D
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Post Thu Jan 29, 2004 10:35 am

It is Phill. Even though its long days (although I'm starting late today :-? ), hard work and my cheque book hasn't seen as much action since I found out Toy R Us were stocking a new range of Tellytubbies, I really am enjoying every minute atm. What is amazing me is how many of the posts I've read on here are now being realised. Vinyl racks, workbenches, tool cupboards have all been designed from what I've read here, plus my original ideas have been adapted since I've visited other UKSB member's business premises. Least doing it this way if it all falls apart after a week, I have a wide range of ppl to blame :wink:

I will be posting some piccies Phill, just having a small problem getting Robert to agree to the 40k for magazine rights. I mean if Joe gets 20k for a app. tape dispenser, I think 40k is reasonable for an entire workshop :wink:

Cheers, Dewi
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Post Thu Jan 29, 2004 4:19 pm

I'm using felt now as it felt really good

Felt I had to tell you that, as felt is the way to go

Have you felt the same way?

What are your feelings?

John
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Post Sun Feb 01, 2004 9:28 pm

Hi All, just had a quote through for "quality felt suitable for vinyl application", various sizes (other sizes are available)

100mm long x 60mm wide x 10mm thick for 90p
100mm long x 60mm wide x 18mm thick for £1.82
125mm long x 100mm wide x 10mm thick for £1.56
125mm long x 100mm wide x 18mm thick for £3.25

All prices inc VAT and min order is 50
Anyone interested in this at all. I am going to request a sample or two and delivery is 4-6 weeks.

Gaz
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Post Mon Feb 02, 2004 10:23 am

Hows does that compare (size-wise) to the MacTac applicator? I've not got one in front of me or I wouldn't ask the question :wink: It stills seems a tad expensive for a piece of felt, but then they have cut it into little shapes, so I guess they can add a few quid :wink: Do they offer a price on buying it as a sheet material ie 8X4, 10x5?

Cheers, Dewi
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Post Mon Feb 02, 2004 12:29 pm

MacTac felts are 100mm x 70mm x 10mm


Alan
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Post Mon Feb 02, 2004 2:41 pm

Hi Dewi I have asked, have to wait til they get back to me. Also asked for a quote on the 100x70x10 size too. But i reckon it will still be cheaper than £2 per piece plus VAT at my local supplier.

Gaz
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Post Tue Feb 03, 2004 12:13 am

Going off the prices they have already quoted you Gaz, you're probably looking at around £1 each. Even if there is VAT on top of that, and a minimum order of 50, thats still..... *head hurting here* £58.75 for 50, which is a whole lot better than the £130 odd that Robert was charged for 20 of the MacTac variety!

I still haven't recieved my quote back :evil: but I suspect it'll be similar. Any cheaper I'll let you know. Now all thats needed is some 'road-testing' and Bob could well be a distant relative mascarading as an Uncle! :wink:

Still puzzling over those 3M Golds :wink:

Cheers, Dewi
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Post Wed Feb 18, 2004 5:32 pm

I felt I needed to know where you are at with this Dewi etc?


Sorry 4 the John humour.. :roll:...its been a bad day :evil:



Tim.
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Post Wed Feb 18, 2004 7:43 pm

wasnt mactac squeegees Dewi, it was KPMF felt squeegees that cost me and arm and a leg :wink:
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Post Wed Feb 18, 2004 8:56 pm

:oops: :oops: :oops: If I could only read eh! :oops: :oops: :oops:

Vivid, I've got no further to be honest. As well as being let down by a plumber, and various other tradesmen today I've been that busy chasing new tradesmen for different jobs I've had to put this well and truely on the back burner. Really not great as I was hoping to spend all my time doing sample signs this week, only managed 7 and an A board today, so I'm slightly behind. Tradesmen :evil: :evil: I'll plumb the bog in myself!! :evil: :evil:

Cheers, Dewi
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Post Wed Feb 18, 2004 9:07 pm

We make our own felt squeeges in different sizes and guages , we buy sheets of green baize and use rulers or strips of mdf in varying thicknesses and edge profiles and lengths and merely wrap em in the baise varying edge sharpness etc depending if you single wrap or double or evwen triple wrap.
We unwrap to to wring out when doing wet and re wrap to geat a new "edge" if the old one gets dirty or slighty worn. We use fairly dense thickish baize. bout 1mm-1.3mm. Its VERY cheap and we use the squeegees for a lot more than applying vinyl , like smooting down delicate engraved surfaces that are glued on substrates and so forth.
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Post Thu Feb 19, 2004 1:31 am

Actually I've done the same as Rodney. I got some baize offcuts from a mate, and glued it to the back of a cheap squegee...works much better than the Avery one I've just bought.
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Post Tue Mar 16, 2004 10:07 pm

squeegees

Firstly congratulations on a superb facility, this board is a credit to the industry and its founders.

However, as the MD of KPMF Direct I was disappointed to read the words at the head of this thread, I don’t like to hear of any dissatisfied customers and in order to ameliorate your dissatisfaction you should have received 50 of our normal squeegees this morning. Could I point out that these are good quality items that we give free to all our regular customers.

I would also like to make a couple of points.

1. All items in our catalogue are “offered” for sale nobody forced you to buy them and you knew the price before you chose to purchase. We sell many of these particular items and many sign makers seem to like them despite the price, as they are, at the very least, of consistently high quality and always in stock.
2. The felt squeegee’s we offer are the best we can find and the cost to us is high and the markup reasonable.
3. We received no complaints from the original poster about the price of these items and we were unaware of the dissatisfaction until this thread appeared.
4. This company has no connection with Fineline and whatever squeegees you bought from them are not from the same source as those sold by KPMF Direct, criticism of the price by comparing with your recently deceased previous supplier is therefore spurious.

With these points in mind and on behalf of my sales team, (hardworking souls to a man), I object to being labelled a “RIP OFF” on a publicly viewable board, we do our best to supply items suitable for the purpose at the best price we can manage. We also stock a range of many other types of none scratch squeegees.

In conclusion, I agree this is a lot to pay for a bit of felt, even merino lamb felt, so if anyone out there finds a supply of material that is as good and that can be purchased at a better price, let me know and we will buy it in bulk and convert for purpose. But it will have to be at least as good as what we have at the moment.

We at KPMF Direct are here to supply what the sign makers of the UK want.

Tony Hall
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Post Tue Mar 16, 2004 10:24 pm

I would like to refer to Rob's initial post. As a user of these products I find it amazing that a small piece of felt could cost £5.57 +vat. Now you obviously are more aware of the costs to produce these things than anyone else and if I am correct, the mactac ones are of a thinner material(?) but that's a lot of money for a bit of, albeit high quality, felt.

BTW QUOTE: "criticism of the price by comparing with your recently deceased previous supplier is therefore spurious. " Is such a description really necessary? Mildly offensive to me, if you want the truth.
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Post Tue Mar 16, 2004 10:26 pm

Blimey Tony :o :o If you're giving away free squeegees to everyone who complains, we'll all complain!!!! :lol:

Sorry if you were offended, but from the signmaker's perspective, its alot to pay. I appreciate you offer a quality product, and you have to make a margin (who doesn't) but the reason the thread has continued in the vein it has is, we as a group fancied our chances at sourcing a ready supply at a lower price. This was really to benefit the group as a whole and not ment as some sort of attack on KPMFD in particular. In fact, one of my posts sites Mactac as the supplier (incorrectly) but it shows that the industry as a whole charge alot for felt squeegees. Obviously its a supply/demand scenario, just wish they were a little cheaper (my felt squeegee is wrecked, only had it 5 weeks :roll: )

Again, apologies for any offense, and I hope you join in more often. There's a whole lot of signmakers here already so it could be good for business :wink: :D

Cheers, Dewi
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Post Tue Mar 16, 2004 10:45 pm

Hi

I have never dealt with KPMF Direct. Like Big G I find the remarks of their MD Mr Hall downright rude, to the point where now I wouldn't dream of ever dealing with them!

Mr. Hall kindly note that most people when they use the word "couple" mean two, not four. As you seem to have problems with numbers may I re-iterate that like Big G, I am astounded at the cost of £5.57 for a bit of felt or do you refer to that as a "couple" of quid?

(:) (:) (:)
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Post Tue Mar 16, 2004 10:56 pm

hi tony
welcome to boards. firstly thank you for making your post & i hope to see more of you on the site. :D

as you know, i am guilty of making the initial post. as i said when i started it, it was a rant about my feelings on the cost of your squeegees. :oops:
nothing more.

1. All items in our catalogue are “offered” for sale nobody forced you to buy them and you knew the price before you chose to purchase. We sell many of these particular items and many sign makers seem to like them despite the price, as they are, at the very least, of consistently high quality and always in stock.

this is not entirely correct, i do not have your catalogue.
I did not know your prices.
i sometimes buy wrap vinyl from your company & i knew that you sold this particular brand of squeegee & basicaly lifted the phone and ordered them.
i ordered them on the assumption that they would be priced simular to every other squeegee on the market. (good/descent ones at that)
obviously this is my problem, i should have checked! but not being one to argue over 50p or so to get the quality i am after i didnt.
how wrong was i?
2. The felt squeegee’s we offer are the best we can find and the cost to us is high and the markup reasonable.

i would not argue with you on this, i think your felt squeegee is 'one' of the best i know of. but your approx #5.25 markup on a #5.75 squeegee is more than just reasonable.
3. We received no complaints from the original poster about the price of these items and we were unaware of the dissatisfaction until this thread appeared.


sorry but this is incorrect. the instant i found out (next day) the cost of these squeegees i called and spoke to a women. she told me the price was correct and sympathised, but could do nothing.
since then while on the phone to one of your reps i mentioned my complaint. again they sympathised.
4. This company has no connection with Fineline and whatever squeegees you bought from them are not from the same source as those sold by KPMF Direct, criticism of the price by comparing with your recently deceased previous supplier is therefore spurious.

I agree/know, your company is not connected in anyway to finline, but your products in one way or another are the same.
i have used fineline squeegees many times & rated them good! i maybe wrong, but the squeegee i have in my hand at this moment in time is the same as the one i bought from finline.
correction, if anything i would say its a tiny bit thinner. (thats not a complaint, i thought making them thinner would improve the feel when using them)

i have not received your free aplicating squeegees yet. but thank you very much in advance. :wink:
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Post Wed Mar 17, 2004 12:10 am

Re: squeegees

KPMFD wrote:Firstly congratulations on a superb facility, this board is a credit to the industry and its founders.



I absolutley agree - and I'm Not being smarmy when I say it - well done Rob keep it up :lol: :lol:
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Post Wed Mar 17, 2004 12:26 am

Very interesting thread...I've just checked, & I pay $6.60 including tax for one...Makes it something around 2 pounds 50.

Lee
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Post Wed Mar 17, 2004 10:16 am

hello everybody! :D
I didnt realise that it cost so much ! (oogle)

Something like a squeege in anyones workshop gets easily misplaced, i know my dad only has one felt squeege and all the rest of his are plastic that do the job just as well!
luv
rachel
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Post Wed Mar 17, 2004 10:22 am

Heres my 2 pen'arth i have in the past used mactac felt squeeges and found them to be too thin, they are only 10mm thick and after a couple of months go soft, I then bought some from Victory Design at £2.50 each 15mm thick and very good.

Well done Tony you completely missed this point
You do realise Rob that you’ve just paid the equivalent of £929.00 per square metre for felt
:evil:

Isn't the WWW a wonderful thing eh! a few years ago we would would all have happily paid extortionate amounts of money for processed wool :roll: the more this type of website grows the more informed we become and hopefully the more suppliers get caught :lol:

As to Tony's comments well
ameliorate
:roll: Please!!! :-?
rude no! typically pompous and condescending? well I'll leave you guys to make your own minds up on that one. :wink:
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Post Wed Mar 17, 2004 9:57 pm

ameliorate.....!
"To make or become better; improve."
It's really great when some big MD takes the time to mix with the little people in the industry.
After all where would great big super suppliers be without the little plebs that actually have to work with their products.
6 quid for a lump of felt .......ye can feckin well keep it!
Joe
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Post Wed Mar 17, 2004 10:16 pm

:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Post Wed Mar 17, 2004 10:42 pm

A nifty little alternative....

http://www.winghamwoolwork.co.uk/

For 10 sque... I mean £50 you can learn the art of feltmaking and weave your own squeegees in your spare time! Genius!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

I missed the whole ameliorate bit, I'm that used to reading stuff along those lines, my brain doesn't register it anymore. :o

Cheers, Dewi

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