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64" printer options

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Post Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:31 am

64" printer options

Hi all

We are a company looking at purchasing a new 64" printer. I would very much like to know peoples views on the following.

We were very close to ordering the new Roland VersaArt with a FC 8000 cutter. At the same time up grading our Sign lab to the new version 8 which 'we have been told' works very well with Versaworks. The Roland seems easy to use and our staff already know Signlab.

But today I had a call from a dealer regarding the Mimaki JV33 print and cut package with Shiraz V6 rip (We had originally looked at this machine but the cost was much higher than the Roland package (£5000) and I felt the new software would be more complicated than Signlab) the bottom line is that there is now only £2000 between the two machines.

I'm told that the JV33 is the better machine and that the Shiraz is one of the best Rips on the market.

Points to note
The Roland has one year warranty the JV has two. The dealer has said that the JV will print to most if not all the materials on the market but the Roland will only print to the material made for Eco sol ink. The ink for the JV is cheaper and the Roland ink's have increased by 60% this year. The Jv also has the one print head which is £1200 to buy (UK dealer) the Roland has four which are around £1000 each (a possible cost once out of warranty).

On the face of it the JV is the better deal. But I'm looking for a good machine that's logical to use. Will it give us problems if we don't use it for a couple of days. Is the Rip to complicated. Or are we just being big girls and after using it for a couple of months find ourselves wondering what the problem was.

Mike
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Post Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:08 pm

my experience with both ink types is as follows:

-eco-solvent inks can produce smaller picoliters resulting in a crisper image
-eco-solvent inks are less abrasive resistant then mild solvent
-eco-solvent inks have less color gamut (shows in fine detail of hair and certain photos mainly in the darker areas)
-when you print on 2 different materials with the same profile eco-solvent will have a much larger difference in color than mild solvent.
-mild solvent can print on a tad bit larger variety of substrates
-mild solvent is much cheaper then eco solvent.

eco solvent has less maintenance
-eco solvent printers can be shut down.
-it is recommended to never turn of your mild solvent printer since it is in a continuous cleaning cycle

do not kid yourself with people saying that mild solvent printers can remain idle for a week or so, it WILL jam in time if not taken care of properly.

hope i have given enough information

regards dennis
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Post Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:22 pm

hi. The JV33 has one print head? i would have though it would be 4. So, 4x print head cost.
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Post Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:44 pm

Quick question as I have not really looked at the versart in great detail, but is this print only? I assumed that it was print and cut?

Jason
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Post Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:49 pm

The JV33 as 1 DX5 head at a cost of £1900 for the correct solvent 1 last time i enquired. The RS as 4 heads at a cost of approx £650 each. The problem is if you have a head strike etc & loose a colour then you have to replace the £1900 head, on the RS you just replace the seperate head.The warranty will not cover heads damaged due to head strikes etc & i was warned that inspection of the head would depend on how much the warranty contributed to its replacement. So a 2 year warranty may not be as good as it sounds.

Kev
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Post Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:51 pm

Jason Davies wrote:Quick question as I have not really looked at the versart in great detail, but is this print only? I assumed that it was print and cut?

Jason

the VersaArt is print only Jason.

John
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Post Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:52 pm

oh no... JV33 now gone lower down in the list of nice printers... 1 head, thats stupid!
What about the CJV33 or whatever it is called?
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Post Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:57 pm

One. :-?
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Post Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:01 pm

What's the point with Print only, I know the VP540 is only 54" but surely more versatile and cheaper!!
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Post Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:23 pm

jason used for 5ft banners and wraps for normal sign shop use i would recommend print and cut machines.
plus if you already have print and cut its a very nice add on and will integrate well

but the rs640 is a nice bit of kit for the dosh.

chris
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Post Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:33 pm

hello all
i agree with all that you are saying Dennis, but have you been drinking the ink out of the waste bottle

regards
Alan Flynn
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Post Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:33 pm

Hi Chris, I appreciate the price etc, but with the 'free' upgrade roland have given for our VP's it doesn't look as attractive now??
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Post Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:35 pm

suddenly Mimaki have lost the plot...they made a useless large format UV printer, its too slow and now this new version has only one benefit and that is speed? with all the chippin/clocks and now 1 head... make my JV3 worth its weight i think
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Post Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:04 am

hello all
i think you will find they are all using Epsom print heads and the jv33 must be like the mutoh value jet which uses one print head,
from my customers and from my own use i have only had 3 value jets need heads and the oldest one i have sold has to be getting over 2 years old doing a lot of work and still on the same print head, so all ican say is keep your media nice and flat dont have any media crashes and happy printing,
and one other thing, being a sign maker as well, make the most of things as they are it a buyers market out there right now, so make the most if it,
happy 2009,
regards
Alan Flynn
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Post Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:27 am

Dave
the DX5 head is 1 head but is equivlant to 4 of the heads fitted to your JV3. It is also capable of printing a smaller dot pattern, issues of banding caused by incorrect head alignment are also gone. The JV5 has multiples of the head but ink can only dry so fast so too high speed can cause issues unless you are running solvent. Roland are the only manufacturer not using this technology, Mutoh & Mimaki both use the heads with great success. As Alan stated good maintenance & printing practice should see this head work with few problems especially on Ecomax inks. There is an argument that due to the smaller dot size solvent inks will clogg more easier. May be the reason why Mimaki fitted a Solvent wash direct to the capping station on the JV33 & CJV but could also be to automate what other printers have to do manually so i am in no way slating it. Mimaki can run on the Ecomax ink the same as Mutoh & Rolands it is in fact from the same source but then i think people buy the machine for its ink. How i wish i could be left in a room to play & learn these machines & really eveluate them properly.

Kev
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Post Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:23 am

Hi All
I can't comment on the JV range but we have the VersaArt 640. It is superb machine - we have been amazed at how well it worked straight out of the box, the Versaworks software is also very good. Apart from a fortnightly v.basic clean/maintenance that takes 5 minutes you can almost forget about it. The take up unit works well and ink usage appears good. No banding, strong vibrant colours, is physically well built and small for it's size (if that makes sense!)

We mulled over getting print & cut but when I looked back at what we had outsourced before getting the machine then 98%+ was print only, and anything that did require print/cut in one operation would fit on our 30" Versacamm which we kept, albeit we do have a wide FC7000 if we did have to print & cut wider (but as said very rare).

So far we've done wraps, pints for 10*5/8*4 boards, banners and pop-ups and very pleased with them all.

Hope this helps you make a decision.
Cheers
Macky
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Post Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:19 am

interesting comments... and good to see ya Macky...

With the versaart, are you more careful with which medias you can print to? would the machine fail to print to some banner stocks or wrap media?

With regards the single head, ok I understand also when I saw the JV5, it had a nozzle out checker that fired possibly a little laser beam to check to see if the nozzle was blocked, it would then remove this nozzle if it was blocked and compensate. Same goes with many of the large UV printers, if a nozzle is out you 'switch it off' and the machine will slow up.

So has nozzle 'switch off' finally made it to the new head on the Versaart and the JV33/CJV?
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Post Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:29 pm

Hi Dave

Sorry, no idea about the nozzle switch-off on the VersaArt. As for media there are profiles available for all categories from Oracal and Metamark, and on the Roland website there appears to be 100's available for all the main media manufacturers.

I have noticed that accidentally using the wrong profile on the VersaArt makes a huge difference in print quality, whereas on the Versacamm it makes little difference.

Cheers
Macky
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Post Wed Feb 11, 2009 5:28 pm

hm.. ok thanks for that

So, perhaps Roland need to make someone there core profiles guy and if they take a leaf out of another RIP manufacturer be willing to test different medias and profile them to optimum. Although requires customers to send a few mtrs to them
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Post Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:37 pm

Hi All,

There is a special deal i asked Rob to put on the website for members only , did he do it?
We bought 10 when they were first out and got free take up units with them and of course paid the old price.......

All the best
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Post Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:01 pm

Dave Rowland wrote:hm.. ok thanks for that

So, perhaps Roland need to make someone there core profiles guy and if they take a leaf out of another RIP manufacturer be willing to test different medias and profile them to optimum. Although requires customers to send a few mtrs to them


Dave
thing is Rolands generic profiles work very well, Versaworks as a direct link to download loads of profiles direct from the Roland site. The only way to improve on this is to profile on your own machine. Most profiles are built on the generic Roland profiles. I think the fact that using the wrong profile on the RS is that the profiles are very good & have been made for optimum speed & ink usage.

Cameron
I thought there was only 2 units left?

Kev
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Post Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:24 am

ah right... but as with the JV3, each media is bound to be slightly out, this would worry me for matching, like our banner stock, it isn't right but we use near enough profile... however if Roland (or rip supplier) wanted to measure each material one after another then you guys dont need a spectrometer!

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