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whats best Vehicle outline or vehicle photo?

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Post Thu Dec 04, 2003 7:20 pm

whats best Vehicle outline or vehicle photo?

Just a Quick thought, (spin)
I have been laying out a Merc recovery truck & I had the time to use the wonderful Impact van graphic & also photos of the actual van.
To me (& the customer) the photo layout gives a better idea of how the job will turn out. Also on the Impact graphic the rear of the cab had been omitted (<( , (that was the reason why I took some photos anyway.)

I know on a lot of jobs it's just impossible to photograph the vehicle, but I think if it's available use it, the customer will be impressed :o

See what ya'll think
(& can I be the 1st to say HAPPY CHRISTMAS)(clause1)
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Outline vs photo
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Post Thu Dec 04, 2003 8:08 pm

i do agree mate.. looks much better. more realistic. :wink:

the down side of digital prints is sometimes overlaying text on vans with the wrong light when the picture is taken. you then have to mess around with colours/brightmess etc. but "still" does give a better layout.

brian..
would it not be an idea to use the digital pics you take of the vehicles to offer along with the outlines in next years outl;ine library?
then again.. maybe not.. how would you change the colour of the vans? :-? :roll:

(& can I be the 1st to say HAPPY CHRISTMAS)


no you cant mate.. phill did it first with a big birthday card,... :wink: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Post Thu Dec 04, 2003 8:11 pm

While we are on the point, can I be the 1st to say HUMBUG!

:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Post Fri Dec 05, 2003 3:33 am

Hi!
Since I have digital camera, I always use digital photos.
I make photos from relative high distance, with zoom lens (in this way the distortion is minimal), and I measure the main dimensions. In the Corel I work with the real dimensions.
When the design is complete, I export the graphic as EPS (only the signs), and In the Photoshop I make a photorealistic image. The customers like it :wink:
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Post Fri Dec 05, 2003 10:23 am

I always use drawings unless there is absolutely no alternative.

1. I often don't have access to the vehicle. It is 100 miles away and we are working blind.

2. Drawings are quick and easy. I don't have to mess about with finding a van, taking pictures, messing about with light and reflections, straightening and cropping and then measuring some dimensions to get a scale. I'd much rather just insert a CD, open the file and start work.

3. On a scale drawing I am designing and sizing at the same time. That is if I have done the drawing at 1:25 once the client has agreed the layout all we have to do is to save all the elements separately and cut them all at 2500%. No measuring or calculating needed.

4. I can put decal positioning dimensions on the drawing, both for my people to fit and also for supply only customers so that they get a consistent appearance no matter who sticks them on.

5. Whereas the local electrician might prefer a photo, I think that for larger corporate clients a proper scale drawing appears more professional.

And, no. I'm not on commission. :(
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Post Fri Dec 05, 2003 2:16 pm

Yes, if the vehicle is far away, you can't make photos. But - I think - the most of sign makers work for local comapanies, and the customer usually brings the vehicle.
Taking photos, measuring etc. about 10-15 minutes, and during that time you can discuss the work.

I haven't got vehicle outlines cd's, but I think the car manufacturers often bring out new models, and you can't use the disc.
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Post Fri Dec 05, 2003 3:08 pm

image....

That's about it, 15 minutes per vehicle. So I'm saving about an hour a day by using drawings. :D

Fair enough if it is a new model, or if drawings aren't available for any other reason, then I will use photos, but not otherwise. I have done it only once this year, for a Nissan Micra.

Admittedly my situation may not be the norm, but nobody has to use an outline CD very often before it has paid for itself. I don't know what labour rates are in your country but at £25 per hour here I don't have to use many outlines before I have recovered the cost.

Our very own Impact Signs give free updates for twelve months after purchase so at the very worst I can keep up to date by buying once per year, although in practice it is less often than that.

Am I saying the right things Brian? :D
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Post Fri Dec 05, 2003 3:25 pm

Sounds good to me John, it's a shame it seems you are the only 1 in my corner though :cry:

I know many of our customers fax visuals over, just to give the customer an idea (faxing photos doesn't work!). Many Sign Companies work from home & probably wouldn't want a procession of Vans & Trucks coming round for a picture shoot.

Surely 1 or 2 jobs a year extra would pay for the cd? There are lots of occasions when photos aren't practical. If your cutomer is outside at 4pm in winter for example :)

At the end of the day it's just another tool I guess, the same as a digital camera. You all know you can never have enough tools! :lol:
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Post Fri Dec 05, 2003 6:30 pm

Yes, if you can use the cd several times a day, then it is profitable.
(We make only a few vehicle per month.)

However, the realistic presentation is very important for me, and a realistic image helps me in designing. As far as I can see these vehicle outlines can't shows enough informations from a three dimensional body (eg. VW Beetle).
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Post Fri Dec 05, 2003 6:40 pm

Hello to John , Barna & Brian,
Nice to see a healthy discussion going on about outline vs photos and it's interesting to hear the fors & against, but it does depend on the situation & time factor. This job I used as an example was easy for me because the garage is just round the corner & they're good friends, the vehicle is a 'hybrid' (it's about 10 years old :roll: ) not quite a 1 off but old enough & unique enough not to be found on the wonderful Impact Vehicles Outlines CD & these custom vehicles do crop up from time to time, so I think the digi photo has got it's uses ( definately for shop fronts before & after)

Also I do email a lot of these layouts (photo or outline) to customers (up & down the fens..... Brian :-?, are you based in Suuufolk (?) )

But anyway, it's great to see how different people do the same job in different ways,
Barna, who has never used a vehicle outline, has found a way round the layout problem using photos,
John, armed with his Impact CD (very good quality outlines at a reasonable price :lol: )(do you owe me a pint yet Brian :wink: ) can rattle through a fleet of vans before lunch time :wink:

And then there's little ol' me .... using photos AND outlines (Impact... Bloody Maarvelous (yawn) ) And STILL end up measuring the poxy van just to make sure it'll all fit (usi) .....
At least all this effort will justify the 50 quid cash and a full service on my ol' bus tha I'll get for the job :-? :-? :-? (grab)

..........AND can I be the 1st to wish everyone a... HAPPY NEW YEAR (clause1)
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Post Fri Dec 05, 2003 7:08 pm

larger corporate clients a proper scale drawing appears more professional.


Just been looking at an Architects drawing today and also one from last week
Both scaled CAD drawings - no digital photos
It would seem that Architects and others still prefer the draftsman type drawing of yesteryear gently weaved into computerised tech but still maintain that feel.

Fashion designers do the same - they'd rather sketch that strange elongated endless legged young lady with a next to nothing of a waist
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Post Fri Dec 05, 2003 8:11 pm

I’m a digital pix man.

I have a handful of outlines that I’ve acquired over the years and they’re fine for laying out on but to see a customers face really light up I don’t think you can beat a picture of their own van.

I know nothing about the big corporate clients but imagine them to be just men in suites spending other peoples money.

Jo Bogs is whom I have to impress and to him the photograph is king.


Alan
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Post Fri Dec 05, 2003 8:20 pm

Men is suites?!! Never seen a man wearing a sofa! :lol: :lol:
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Post Fri Dec 05, 2003 8:32 pm

Sofa you haven't but its a strange world filled with hannibels and cannibals

No: Alan's quite correct; Men dining in suites spending 'loads a money'

John
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Post Fri Dec 05, 2003 8:39 pm

If ppl who dine in suites spend lots of money, I'm going to open a restaurant that resembles the inside of my couch! Um, on second thoughts looking down the back of it..... (<(

Cheers, Dewi
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Post Fri Dec 05, 2003 8:54 pm

Men is suites



I like to give the customer the odd extra letter now and then. It makes up for those I miss out on other ocasions. :o :lol: :lol:


Alan
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Post Fri Dec 05, 2003 8:56 pm

I cab't see the point messing around with photos when you have perfectly good templates to work from, I wish I had the time to do these little nicetise for the customer who invariably wont' want to pay for your time.

Also on this subject I am sick and tired of people who come into the shop, you spend 20 minutes or so in front of them designing a layout which they approve than come out with 'Can I have a copy to show the Missus' or some other rubbish and you never see them again. What I now do is give them a provisional price before I start any design work and if when I have done the design and they want a copy without placing an order I charge them a tenner refundable against the price of the job. It usually sorts out the messers.

Allan
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Post Fri Dec 05, 2003 9:05 pm

Surely applying sample graphics to a photograph is just as rapid as designing onto a template? Obviously it relys on good quality pictures of the vehicle at the correct angles, but with Photoshop and many other graphics applications adding advanced vector functions, it should be a doddle.

Thats a good idea Allan, sorts the wheat from the chaff in one easy step, plus if they don't come back, you gain a tenner!

Cheers, Dewi
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Post Sat Dec 06, 2003 12:04 am

On a similar topic, I produced a visual for a potential customer this week. I took a few minutes superimposing the layout onto a photograph of his shop. His reply when I presented it to him was something like, "at last, someone who knows what they're doing, much better than the **** the last sign company showed me". He gave me the order there and then and asked if I'd be interested in his other 12 shops. I think a little bit of extra effort can sometimes put you in with a better chance than the other companies you are quoting against.

Of course, it doesn't always work that well, but often does.
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Post Sat Dec 06, 2003 1:00 am

The best thing about a photo of the actual van mind is the badges and other extras that get fitted can be seen for reference while using your outlines.....

Timmy...
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Post Sat Dec 06, 2003 4:40 pm

Timmy,

Badges are no problem - if they are in the way we rip them off. We find that our clients are much more interested in promoting their own companies rather than Ford, Renault or whatever.

Most badges are stick-on these days although we occasionally get a problem with any holes left behind but can usually sort them out without too much bother.
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Post Sat Dec 06, 2003 6:33 pm

Big G,

A shop is a different matter to be fair we were talking about van templates. An individual shop has got to be surveyed so measurements and photos are part of the package. A van is a different story half the time the punter has the van on order or he does not have it with him or you are dealing with a company and the vans are on the road.

No sorry for me I have always used templates and for accuracy (usually I stress Mr.Impact) and speed they are the way to go. Actually on this subject did anyone get caught out a few years ago with Impacts Ford Cargo (oh i swore !) up. They scaled a 3 tonner up incorrectly to the longer bigger HGV version. I did a full lorry and it did not fit and as I had travelled from Harrow to Croydon to fit it I was very *issed off. I gave em some real verbal I can tell you.

Allan

Allan
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Post Sat Dec 06, 2003 6:37 pm

Blimey this board really is prudish, Dennis Norden does a full program on prime time TV and uses the word c-o-c-k up at least 20 times a show.

Allan
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Post Tue Dec 09, 2003 5:51 pm

Ahem........

T5 Transporter Brian???????

Or do I need to dust off the camera???????

:lol:
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Post Tue Dec 09, 2003 7:06 pm

It's on it's way, keep the camera in the draw! You don't wanna go out there in the cold!! :D
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Post Tue Dec 09, 2003 8:35 pm

Bit of news on this subject. Coincidently I have two of the latest Ford Iveco Eurocargos to do for different companies. I have been chasing up the Impact boys for a week or so to get me the template but they have been having trouble getting the artwork from Ford.

Anyhow they phoned me today, they have the artwork and have promised me the template by next Monday. (Maybe I better get me digital camera out after all!)

Allan
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Post Wed Dec 10, 2003 12:43 am

Allan Weyman: "A shop is a different matter to be fair we were talking about van templates. "

Yes I understand what you're saying. I was trying to make the point that sometimes a bit of extra work in preparing a visual can be beneficial. For example, if I am quoting a job for a fleet of vehicles, spending an extra hour creating some photographic images to accompany the standard line drawings can ( and has in my experience ) make your offer stand out from your competitors. I know at the end of the day price is usually a deciding factor (but not always), but I place a great deal of importance on presentation. Vans or shop fronts, same applies.
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Post Wed Dec 10, 2003 12:51 am

Big G,

My trouble is I suppose I have too much equipment, too much work to get through and no staff so when I go to the shop every minute has to pay which is why you will never find me on this board in business hours and also much as I would like to. cannot put the time into design presentations that may or may not become firm orders.

That's the bottom line I guess it all depends on your personal situation.

Allan
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Post Wed Dec 10, 2003 12:59 am

Point taken. It's early days for me at the moment and I do have the time to put extra effort into things like this. Hopefully, in the future I won't have the time, if you know what I mean.
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Post Wed Dec 10, 2003 9:48 am

Thanks for the T5 Brian.

Service doesn't get much better than that.

I've put the camera away again. :D
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Post Wed Dec 17, 2003 4:56 pm

question to brian @ impact

Brian,

an easy question for you re outlines, what scale do you do them to?

Thanks
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Post Wed Dec 17, 2003 6:09 pm

Full scale, there are also 1-20 scale for people that have software like Adobe Illustrator which can't cope with full scale Vehicle drawings.

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