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Can I plot/cut from Illustrator?

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Post Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:23 pm

Can I plot/cut from Illustrator?

Hi - I am new to the site, and new to plotting/cutting.
I have just purchased a plotter off eBay (LIKE CUTTING PLOTTER)
I believe it is originally a Chinese product - the manual is a little hard to understand (badly translated)

It came with CutterMaster V6.27E.
For years I have used adobe illustrator, and am happy using it - I find cuttermaster a little harder to use, and it seems to crash if i try importing an .eps file (also tried .ai file and .dxf file from illustrator, cuttermaster crashed with these too).

So I was wondering if it was possible to use my plotter/cutter straight from illustrator?

Hope someone can help,
Thankyou
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Post Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:57 pm

Micheal,
Welcome to the site, you really need to ask the supplier how to use the machine, and to be honest should have found out before buying it.

Its just my opinion, but to many people by cheap ebay plotters then expect advice from people who have paid good money for machines that are supported by the dealers,


Good luck anyway

Peter
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Post Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:08 pm

Hi,
I can use the machine with the software it came with - but its not exactly great software. I was told it would work with illustrator, whether that is by importing illustrator files into cuttermaster, or by printing direct from illustrator I'm not sure. I was hoping someone on this forum would be knowledgeable with illustrator and be able to help me.

I got a deal on the plotter, yes, but by no means was it cheap!! I still paid good money for it (and how I worked for that money!), I just probably didn't spend as much good money as you did. I am young, and cannot afford to pay shop prices - Generally I am quite good with computers, so I didnt expect to have problems, but having issues like the import function on the program causing it to crash, I really didn't expect that.

What programs do you guys use for cutting? what is industry standard?
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Post Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:20 pm

P-cut?

Some of them ship with that software.

For best advice with it as it's not one I've heard of before - try the technical support of the software people with your import issues.

You're not going to like the shop prices of 'industry standard' software. :o
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Post Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:25 pm

Hi Michael,

some plotters come with software to allow cutting direct from Illustrator via a plugin.....Mimaki is the make that springs to mind...you may be able to find a file type that Illustrator can export and your cutting software can use.....look at what your cutting software can handle...I am not familiar with your software so cannot offer more advice than that I'm afraid.

industry standard? depends on who you ask..Signlab, Flexisign, Illustrator, Coreldraw......all have their fans on here.

john
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Post Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:46 pm

JCUT apparently.. doesn't really mean much to me, to be honest.

The CD has a web address on it - but the site is in Chinese characters.

I was just wondering what people usually use - i.e. when you buy a webcam, most of them come with some sort of software for editing/printing etc. but at the end of the day, photoshop is the program to use.

Just wondering what was common for cutting/plotting. Because of my job, I haveto have the Adobe CS suite, and already use Illustrator, and with an adobe thread, I was hoping people printed from them.

Cuttingmaster works fine (as of yet, ive only used it with the pen, but i presume itll be fine with vinyl and blades too) its just its not a great program to design in
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Post Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:48 pm

Thanks John, I'll do a quick google, see if i can come across any drivers/plug-ins for illustrator.
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Post Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:36 am

Michael, if you look at this very long topic, you will see why even before you have started, you are likely to have an uphill struggle in getting any kind of satisfaction with your purchase.
It really does pay to do a bit of research before jumping in to something new.

https://www.uksignboards.com/viewtopic.p ... rs&start=0
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Post Thu Nov 20, 2008 8:05 pm

Hi again,

I have spent many a late night trying to sort things out, in the end I realised that if I save an eps as an older version eps (rather than cs3), the software that came with the plotter will work fine.

I have tried it with paper and pen, and it seems to be working fine now!
I now need to buy some vinyl and set up the blades - Only thing is, considering the comments I've had so far, and the short part of that thread Ive read ... Are people going to give me advice if I have a chinese cutter?

As far as I'm aware, this is a forum for advice - so thats just what I was looking for. But I'm getting the impression that because I cant afford expensive equipment, I'm being spoken down to here.

Everyone has to start somewhere - and I'm starting with a chinese cutter/plotter.
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Post Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:58 am

Chinese equipment is not always bad....support can be poor and manuals /instructions challenging ..........a by product of low price......however the Chinese sign market is driven with Chinese machines.........and it dwarfs the US market in terms of size........high quality signage can be produced using Chinese made products.

john
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Post Fri Nov 21, 2008 1:12 am

John Thomson wrote:however the Chinese sign market is driven with Chinese machines.........and it dwarfs the US market in terms of size........high quality signage can be produced using Chinese made products.

john


size maybe John, but in general the Chinese did not have a large advertising industry, at least not untill recently, they are relatively new to the game, they did not have a need for signage in any big way,
the Americans however are the leaders in signage, as far as quality is concerned, both in content and physical advancement, in materials and machinery, with the Japanese a close second,

30 years ago, I saw some guys in the far east make a sequential flashing sign with little more than a car wiper motor, a few bits of copper and some wood, it worked a treat, but would not be acceptable in the western world on grrounds of safety etc.

the Chinese can and do make good products, they also make a load of cheap rubbish, and that is what tends to get sold on auction sites, and people then wonder why they cant get it to work

sorry waffling on I know


Just my opinion though

Peter
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Post Fri Nov 21, 2008 1:31 am

American made plotters or printers? none spring to mind......as always I am happy to be corrected Peter. Most American signage is made using Far Eastern or European technology............

The Chinese sign market is huge hence the large number of manufacturers emerging.......Sign China is HUGE...makes Sign UK look like a drop in the Ocean.

just my observations. Love a good debate.

john
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Post Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:39 am

Michael, in the main I think that this site consists of professional sign makers and as such use established brand name equipment with a track record for reliability and support.
Consequently, the emerging market of "cheaper" Chinese equipment tends to attract new business start-ups rather than existing businesses.
Obviously cost is a big factor when starting up and to the uninformed, the specifications can be similar for cheaper and dearer machines.
So, there are two issues; a new purchaser is not only going to struggle with one of these machines due to unintelligible manuals etc and lack of supplier support but also with lack of knowledge by established sign businesses whose only experience is with all the questions that get asked here on how to operate these them.
Not to say all the cheaper machines are no good because you might come across an importer who provides backup and spares for a particular range.
If I bought a new machine I would expect it to be up to date and run with the latest software but of course you get what you pay for in the world.
The vinyl cutter is probably the most important bit of kit any modern sign maker will own, and since the business will depend on it, a high quality machine with full support is a real requirement.
In your case I feel that you could have done with lesser software and a better cutter.
A Graphtec or Summa 610 cutter can be bought for around £1200 and will have software with it to run with Illustrator or you can get a cheap (free?) Corel interface.
One of those machines would be a real investment for a business with a wealth of user knowledge to be easily found but then again, they will work straight out of the box with no hassle.
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Post Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:05 am

John,
I know China is is vast in terms of population, and size, and no doubt manufactures millions more machines than The US.
But I was thinking more in terms of the advertising spend per head, on signage.
I was trying to make the point that just because China has a large internal market does not mean it necessarily makes the best equipment (designed and built)

China maybe producing the quantity, but are still behind when it comes to developing new technology,

It would be interesting to find some actual figures relating to signage/ material/machinery production for countries per capita, I had a quick google but not a lot came up.


Anyway like I said just waffling,


Peter
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Post Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:18 am

MichaelThomas wrote:As far as I'm aware, this is a forum for advice - so thats just what I was looking for.


Hi Machael

Yes this forum is to get help and advice but it is still a forum full of sign makers and some of them will more than likely be a close competitor to you in the market. Just because this forum exists does not mean you have an automatic right to experienced sign makers knowledge, this must be earned. I did not start with a cheap cutter as I researched on this forum first and made an informed business decision as Peter Dee mentioned a good quality cutter is the backbone of starting in this game and I bought a Summa D60SE. I pluged it in and it worked and have never had a problem with it and am still using the same blade even :o

Show your future colleges (the people on this forum) that you are serious about being a professional sign maker and are willing to make a commitment to this site and they will in turn help you build your business in to a success as many have done for me.

A full membership on this forum will be the best business investment you ever make and a picture tells a thousand words.

Add a picture, get a UKSG membership, work your a$$ off and you will make it with the help of the great people on this forum.

Warren (speaking from experience)
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Post Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:03 pm

As cheaply made as it may be, its a cutter all the same, after all, I'm just starting.
£1200 is a lot of money for me - even if I sold my car, I would struggle to afford that. And on the subject of cars - who would start off in a Lamborghini? no-one, because you cant start at the top.

Also, what you say about less software, better cutter - I haven't purchased ANY software for cutting. The products I talk about are products I already have because of my job, or the software that came with the cutter itself.

With regards to what Warren is saying - did everyone on this site turn up will full knowledge of everything and anything to do with sign making and never ask for any advice? How would you like me to EARN advice? I have asked nicely, and got a complete slating for it because I'm "new" and don't know anything.

I came asking one simple question - Can you plot/cut directly from illustrator. There are two possible answers to this, "Yes" and "no".

For anyone else with this problem - I now know what the answer is (thanks to John, am very grateful!).
You can print direct from illustrator, but for this, you need to purchase additional software to communicate between your equipment and illustrator.

If you do not wish to give me advice because I have not earned the right for advice, then feel free to not respond. But surely the time taken to write hostile comments (that lets face it, are intended to be insulting) could just as easily be spent being nice? Even a "I'm not sure" would be appreciated.
I'm a strong believer in the phrase "Its nice to be nice". I came to this forum with good intentions - I didn't expect to get slatted so much for asking a simple question.

So please, feel free to debate how good/bad Chinese plotters are, I admit, the software and manuals that came with it are absolute rubbish. I have contacted support and got a quick response, in good English :)
But could you maybe be a little less rude to me?

Thankyou
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Post Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:45 pm

Micheal - I don't think anyone is being rude for the sake of being rude.

It is a sad fact of life in our industry that no matter whether you have a lifetime of experience, are a master craftsman, innovator in technology, supreme software operative & design guru...somebody with little more than a £300 plotter & some pirated software can 'become a signmaker' working out of their back bedroom and devalue the industry by charging little over the cost of the materials after getting all of the required 'free' advice here. This is NOT a reflection of the investment you have personally made, but PLEASE appreciate you are one of a dozen new people that join every week seeking to absorb the collective knowledge of hundreds of regular contributors that have 'earned their stripes' through personal hard work & dedication. This is not a closed shop, and new starts are really welcome - but it goes a LONG way by in expressing your genuine desire to become a 'professional' signmaker' by choosing to pay for a membership to access the astonishing wealth of information & help. I assure you - you will not regret it...

As you used a car analogy - so will I. 'We' all run garages, some large some small, some have all of the latest kit...others have well worn tools. We share knowledge within the trade to help fellow 'mechanics' as we are all in the same boat. By passing out free advice & solutions to everybody with a set of spanners entering the market it is highly counter productive to the industry as a whole. They can no longer charge £70 an hour for 20 years worth of experience and perfectionism when 'my mate with a lock-up' will do the same job for £20 and a crate of beers after getting all of the advice, skills & procedures for free on an internet forum.

I'm a VERY firm believer in the forum's moto “created by sign makers for sign makers”. It's a place for fellow signmakers to help, be helped, share & discuss...it's not a 'free advice centre' although the members are in general very helpful and honest & would never mislead you.

You have expressed yourself quite eloquently and rationally and that is VERY much appreciated. The best advice I can give you to get started in signmaking is..."have a go". The grand sum total of the operational 'training' given to me was....this is a plotter...this is how you switch it on...that's the PC...figure it out. Most of us started at the beginning and through a LOT of hard work & dedication, sleepless nights, and an eye for detail got there. Persevere...you'll probably not be a millionaire by christmas, but you might be selling some signs!

Dave
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Post Fri Nov 21, 2008 11:07 pm

You should always give someone the benefit of the doubt. For all you know I could turn out to be helpful in this forum - but without being given the benefit of the doubt, without being given the chance, what point is there in me being here.

somebody with little more than a £300 plotter & some pirated software can 'become a signmaker' working out of their back bedroom and devalue the industry by charging little over the cost of the materials after getting all of the required 'free' advice here.


Yes, my plotter is worth around £300, that is the only truth, had I known there was such snobbery, I would have never mentioned it.

My software is not pirated, I work in a design agency, a registered, limited company. Your not gonna get away with dodgy software in a business are you. I am a senior designer working from an office, believe it or not. Not a sofa bed in sight.

I get what you are saying about people devaluating the industry, but I am not personally responsible. Around these areas, there seems to be a big gap between designers and sign makers... you should see some of the things they put on the sides of vans around here, breaking all design rules. I do actually think I can do much better, providing I can learn the skills, that's not blowing my own trumpet, but moreso expressing how the sign makers around here are just that, sign makers. Not designers.

As you may have in sign making - I have noticed the same in design, everyone has a friends cousins sisters boyfriend that can make you a logo/website/brochure for next to nothing.

From a business point of view, it can be annoying - but from a convenience point of view, I think its a great idea, its just a lot of people lack taste and brake rules of design.

I have some supplies in the post; so whether by being advised, or by ruining vinyl, I shall learn. who knows, maybe I'll impress you.
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Post Fri Nov 21, 2008 11:28 pm

MichaelThomas wrote:You should always give someone the benefit of the doubt. For all you know I could turn out to be helpful in this forum - but without being given the benefit of the doubt, without being given the chance, what point is there in me being here.

somebody with little more than a £300 plotter & some pirated software can 'become a signmaker' working out of their back bedroom and devalue the industry by charging little over the cost of the materials after getting all of the required 'free' advice here.

I refer you to this point:
This is NOT a reflection of the investment you have personally made

PLEASE READ IT IN CONTEXT - DON'T JUST PICK AND CHOSE WHICH RANDOM PHRASE IRKS YOU.

I did NOT say you had pirated software - to the contrary, I put it in BOLD, LARGE text to openly proclaim I had absolutely no reason to think you did.

I'm pleased that you ARE a legitimate designer, and that you appreciate the gap in your local market. If you'd said that at the start I'm sure your reception might have been more, em, pleasant since you are an associated trade. So to be fair - you are not a total newbie without a clue - you are infact, a professional designer looking to get into manufacturing.

Relax....there is every point in you being here...you're already half way there!
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Post Fri Nov 21, 2008 11:35 pm

To answer your other questions posted in your "Say Hello" post Michael, there are quite a few different types of vinyl. Monomeric, polymeric, cast and calendered. Wrapping vinyls are (in some cases) specially formulated to allow the material to conform more easily around compound curves. Cast vinyls are better for stretching but are much thinner and brittle. Calendered vinyls are a good general purpose all rounder but by their very nature they are more prone to shrinkage than cast vinyl. Almost all types of vinyls can be cut on a plotter.

As for links to tutorials and suppliers tools etc. Your best bet is to buy a full membership on this site because all the answers are here. You will also find you are very welcome. There is no snobbery or elitism here. We are all dedicated signmakers who like to share knowledge and improve our own and each others skills for the betterment of the industry.

I'm certain your design background will allow you to contribute towards increasing the knowledge base here, which is part of what makes this site such a great resource for signmakers.

I look forward to reading more of your posts over the next few years :D
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Post Sat Nov 22, 2008 12:29 am

Michael, I dont know the answer to your question as I use Corel X3. But I will reiterate the comments made regarding getting a full UKSG membership on these boards, not only will it show a true and genuine interest in the industry but it will pay for itself in no time at all just as mine has.

As for your cutter, ive found first hand that plotters are a funny thing and the cheaper models can be suitable for most of purposes but are very difficult for a first time user to grasp. Its NOT easy to jump into the sign trade, and it will get to where you want to just walk away. But then a van will drive past you that you have done or you will drive past a shop who had their sign made by you and it really lifts you for the rest of the day (unless you did a crap job, then you drive a different route).

Ive got a Graphtec 5000-120 and a Roland GX24 now, but my old £200 Foison C24 is still in the house. I couldnt work it when I bought it so decided as this was an industry I was genuinely interested in that I would go the whole hog and get a branded machine with good support. Oh how I needed that support too (plus the support of the members here) but now I can find my way around my 2 branded machines I have no doubt that I could now work the Foison that caused me so much grief and for that reason I decided to keep it as a spare incase of emergency (the wife isnt happy and tells me daily to take it back to the office but hey ho).

Have fun on here, its a good place to be with alot of knowledgeable members, but at the same time its obvious that there may be some "Oh Not Another One" responses when dozens of people join per week just wanting free advice from people who essentially they could be taking work from by doing it themselves in a spare bedroom.

As a qualified designer im pretty sure it wont be long before you are offering as much to the site as you ask from it.

Cheers

Paul
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Post Sat Nov 22, 2008 1:29 am

I use illustrator with the plug in 'cutting master' that came with my graphtec running on a dell workstation laptop with customer files I'm not using on an external hardrive.

No regrets, and I managed to get up and running with the manuals that came the graphtec plotter, alone.

Without advice form others on this forum and local guys in the trade and associated trades I would have seized up on the signmaking idea quite quickly.

I usually try and sort a problem out with my own resources before I ask for advice and look through the posts on here most days looking for the opportunity to answerer someones questions rather than asking my own.

Dont get the chance very often though. :lol1:
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Post Sat Nov 22, 2008 8:10 am

Micheal,

Take the advise.
Buy a full membership TODAY. It will be the best money you can ever spend. You can search the forum and get all your questions answered in an evening. Yes, you are new to this business, but your questions are probably not. Someone will have asked the very question you want answered. Join and search and you will become better informed very quickly. Additionally, you will get to know many people who are not only helpful but are also very friendly. I cannot enphasise enough how important membership is to a new member of our business. If you are serious about making the sign business part of your life, then join now,

Good luck, I am sure you will find that most people on this forum will help you to the best of their ability.

Peter
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Post Sat Nov 22, 2008 1:17 pm

Hi Michael

I have been reading this thread from the start. I haven't posted earlier because unfortunately I'm not able to help you with your specific problem.
However I would like to welcome you to the forum.

Like yourself I also come from a design background, having worked in an agency on product branding and packaging before falling into signs.
I can empathise with your comments about the gaps between designers and sign makers. Yes there are some visually shocking signs being thrown up. I'm even shocked by some of the posts in the design help section of this forum, at times its almost amusing ! ! Lets face it, today with modern equipment it is much easier to learn how to produce a basic sign than it is to master layout and visual aesthetics. ( Not so 30 years ago. . .. . and one reason why you'll hardly ever see bad work in the traditional mediums such as in enamel or goldleaf )

Having worked on both sides of the fence I would say that Sign Businesses and Sign Makers have slightly different pressures and expectations from their customers when it comes to designing and artwork. Sign makers for example will find it harder to sell artwork / design time and will typically get far less than a graphic designer (regardless of ability. . .let not forget there are a just as many so called graphic designers without a clue ! ) Obviously this is no excuse for shoddy layout, but I want to illustrate that sign makers working to a tight timescale with little or no budget set aside buy the customer for artwork will sometimes only produce work to match that budget. I'd also like to say in the defence of Sign makers, we often find ourselves correcting artwork or production drawings provided by designers that have little or no idea about the application and or fabrication !

As has already been said its the talented hard working individual that's important not the equipment ! I think you'll be fine with your £300 plotter, you can always buy a better one at a later date. Take the advice of the others join up to the site and have a read through the tutorials. If you stick around the forum long enough and see the amount of "How do I set my plotter posts" I think you'll appreciate why you got the response you did. Best of luck with your new venture and I look forward to seeing some of your work in the gallery :)
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Post Sat Nov 22, 2008 1:19 pm

ops just noticed my uksg memberships expired. .
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Post Sun Nov 23, 2008 1:29 pm

Michael,

Firstly good luck with it all - seems to me you asked a perfectly reasonable question and the topic has veered off a bit. At risk of sounding repetitive would agree that the membership is very worthwhile and that there is a lot of info that you would probably find useful.

Think quite a few people here design in Illustrator and cut with whatever software they use. Couple of things that might help with your bundled software - I tend to find that saving for cutting in the earliest version of Illustrator (I use ver 3) may help - with text converted to outlines first. (That said I cut from Flexi - so may be different for you). Also make sure that you have properly welded anything - pathfinder, merge, then expand.

Try googling "Artcut 2005 Sign Software" for some cutting software which seems quite reasonably priced. Don't use it or know anything about it I'm afraid - and you may need to check to see whether will work with your machine. (Actually, may be worth your while seraching for it on this forum)

Maybe someone else on here knows more about Artcut.

Martin
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Post Fri Dec 05, 2008 9:36 pm

Hi I cut from Illustrator CS2 using finecut which is a plugin for mimaki plotters
if i'm moving files to older software in my case gerbers Composer 6.2 (yes I know it as old as the hills but I still love its speed) I save the Illustrator file as an early version AI normally 3 this should work with most of the less professional software which at best seems to have only basic file format support. Tony
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Post Mon Dec 08, 2008 1:02 am

Ive found saving files as an older version before importing them works fine!

I've already learned the hard way to make sure lines are welded, haha!
There's a couple of problems I've come across recently, that I've had to google my way out of.

Like changing strokes to paths, un-needed cuts where characters in text touch each other haha

But Its getting there!
Cheers people for your help

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