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Cube UV or Daytona UV, advice please?

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Post Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:52 am

Cube UV or Daytona UV, advice please?

Hi folks…

Looking for some views/opinions on the following machines.
We are looking at buying a UV flatbed printer. Two that appear to be very good machines as well as get good reports are the Cube UV and the Daytona UV. Both flat bed printers…
We have had our solvent inkjet for about 4.5 years now but still these UV machines are all new to me and I would maybe like to know if there are anything significant I should be taking into consideration. I know the saying well… “you get what you pay for" at the end of the day. but both are expensive and regardless to which we go for I just don’t want to find I didn’t do my homework enough so incur extra costs as a result. I have a good working relationship with both the suppliers and I have no doubt both will keep me right on their machines. The cube is supplied by Grafityp and the Daytona, Europoint…
The Daytona comes in about £65,000 with white ink and I think the Cube is around £85-90,000 with white ink… so at a glance the Daytona does have a big advantage on the costs, but at printing speeds of the cube of up to 78m/2 per hour over the Daytona’s speed of up to 30m/2 per hour there IS significant advantages there alone, but is there disadvantages in either machine im not thinking about?
i.e. I have heard bulb life can be short on some machines. Maintenance contracts very high, heads needing replaced periodically and at high cost. etc
[I do not mean that applies to either of these machines, just mentioning this as the type of thing im more interested in at this stage over the obvious list of pro’s advertised.]

Anyway… I would appreciate any feedback or advice on, maybe not just the two listed above, but UV machines in general that I should be taking into consideration? as you can imagine, its a big step for us and one im still not 100% sure if we should take just yet. :-? :lol1: so treading carefully here... :D


Grafityp - The Cube
http://www.grafityp.co.uk/Printers/printers-Cube260.htm

Europoint - Daytona
http://www.rasterprinters.co.uk/Product ... fault.aspx




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Last edited by Robert Lambie on Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:38 am

Hi Robert,

If it helps you here are some ideas you may like to consider when looking at a UV printer:

(1) Difficult to make a ROI running a UV printer reel to reel as you can already produce the same output with your existing machines so look to rigid substrates for your ROI.

(2) Ignore the quoted print speeds for now. If your printing to rigid then there is a set up time to load each piece. Check how long any printer takes to actually load and align a new piece because this may far outweigh the actual print time and this is the timing that matters in a production run.

(3) When you calculate your costings on a production run, remember that printing rigid you require a full time operator in attendance unlike your existing reel to reel printers and their hourly cost must be added in entirely as they can't be doing anything else.

(4) If you have a niche market which will pay a premium for a service you can provide with a UV flat bed then go for it. If you are considering the investment to take on high volume, low margin work, think very carefully before you decide. This is a very different type of business model to sign making where lower volume higher value is the norm. Do you really want to change the way you work?

(5) Finally I would advise you to look at the bigger names as well. This is a big spend and you need to know that your supplier is able to support you long term. A smaller supplier may well change his product line up for his own commercial reasons after you have made your investment and then where will your support come from?

Hope this helps a bit - good luck
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Post Tue Jun 17, 2008 11:35 am

Raster have stopped selling the Cube so that must tell you something!

in reality it apparently only printed 10 sqm per hour on a high res.

We use the Raster 720 at the moment and are looking at upgrading to the Daytona.
All the quirks on the 720 have been eliminated apparently, it self cleans, you dont need to flush as often etc.. etc... and it prints at a realistec 25-30 sqm per hour.
Euro point are holding an open day on the 25th/26th in Oxfordshire if your interested in seeing a demo?
Ill be there on the 25th
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Post Tue Jun 17, 2008 11:41 am

Are they doing an open day? I didn't know that. As some know im looking at printers still, might be worthwhile visit.
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Post Tue Jun 17, 2008 11:48 am

would be nice to have a better look.

anybody got any fuel :(
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Post Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:09 pm

Chris, exactly what I am thinking. Trying to work out how to get there and everything i seen from our way is £50+ lol
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Post Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:43 pm

Hi Robert, It is nice to hear that you are in search of a UV printer. I will be pleased hear comments made by members as I am also looking for Hybrid printer.

The Cube & Daytona UV printers are made in China by FLORA.
http://www.floradigital.com/en/default.asp
I have seen on other forums, members were having issues with Raster Printers.

Cheers

Andre
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Post Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:51 pm

http://www.ip-i.co.kr/
The Cube is made in Korea, I heard good reports on this machine
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Post Tue Jun 17, 2008 3:01 pm

You right Cube is from the Korean company IP&I. I heard good feed back from Both IP&I and DILLI.
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Post Tue Jun 17, 2008 3:07 pm

I think the Agfa branded one is the Dilli one... also think another branded one is out there.
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Post Tue Jun 17, 2008 3:43 pm

Agfa Anapurna M is the Dilli Neotitan UVT-1606.
http://www.uvprinter.com/eng/
I have print samples on 10mm foam boards from the DILLI printers, they look impressive.
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Post Tue Jun 17, 2008 4:23 pm

Then there is the Techwin Thunder/Storm's, 1440dpi res. Seen this machine at Fespa and print samples are very good. Not forgetting that Nur and Colourspan are now owned by HP. The small Colorspan is pretty good.
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Post Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:00 am

The Grenadier UV is also from Techwin. I was looking at the HP/Colorspan 35100 entry level UV printer. I show it a few times at trade shows. What about the Mimaki JF-1631 with white ink option?
Then again I have red that the IP&I Cube is one of the best mid-range UV printer on the market today.
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Post Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:06 am

Thanks for all the replies so far folks... will reply again when i get a second.

Ryan Fairweather wrote:Raster have stopped selling the Cube so that must tell you something!


Ryan, I don't think it was a case of "they decided" to stop selling the printer mate. I believe it was because Grafityp was granted sole distributor of The Cube within the UK.
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Post Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:28 am

Thanks, didn't know that. :D
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Post Thu Jun 19, 2008 8:45 pm

Hi There,

Hard for me to comment without appearing to do a sell , what i would say is that EFI (Vutek) now part own Rasterprint and it is now running on their software and some replacement parts, having spent a day watching it run i can advise set up is very simple press a button and a Vacumn sucks any excess ink from the heads, quick test print and off you go, the other big selling point is the grey scale print heads which recognise what size drop to put down ranging from 6 to 42 picolitres , this means its very frugal with the ink and can print to a very high definition without drastically reducing the speed , in reality 15m2 per hour is your good quality output speed , Agfa claim to make around 130 changes to the Original DILLI machine , raster make around 30 to their Flora machine it would be worth checking to see if the Cube comes direct from the far east with no changes.
There is an open day for the Raster Daytona 600 and 700 in Oxford , you should contact the London office for more info.
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Post Thu Jun 19, 2008 11:11 pm

i spoken steve at the bristol branch today, we not going this time as is more Europoint london area as he told me, may go up on another open day. Interesting points Cameron.
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Post Fri Jun 20, 2008 3:03 pm

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Post Fri Jun 20, 2008 3:50 pm

That is an amazing find Andre and will definitely aid our decision as to whether we upgrade to the Daytona 700.
cheers
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Post Fri Jun 20, 2008 8:13 pm

Thanks a million Andre, ill have a look at those mate. As Ryan says, great find. :D
i am currently trying organise going to see both the machines in action down south. this will allow me to see the machine running my own sample job i take with me. that way i can see it from opening file, alignment of board as simon mentioned, through to completion and print quality, speed etc i can also get a better understanding of the machines i think. i really do not have the time to do this just now but i think for a day or two out of work it will be worth it in the long run.
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Post Tue Jun 24, 2008 4:09 pm

Daytona H700UV

Its good that people are talking about the Daytona as we are very excited about it.

The heavy mechanics of the hardware are indeed made at the Flora factory. We spent the best part of 2 years working there (at the same time as Dupont) helping them develop their systems.

Flora's machine is still very different. We have re-engineered the 'sexy' parts of the printer and have made a high number of changes inc. heads, inks, software, carriage transfer and servo motors.

Andre-you will find more of this information in the FLAAR reports you found.

We are indeed STILL a Cube distributor but to be honest have chosen to major on the Daytona as it is offers more features and quality for less price.

The uksignboards patron's are always welcome to visit our facility in Bicester any time.

Rob - if you guys ever need somehwere to host a meeting we have a meeting faciltiy for you to use.
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Post Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:04 pm

Hi Rob,
Please kindly let us know if there is any new development on your research.
I also in search of a new printer and I am looking at an entry level hybrid printer.

I have just received invitation to the Print Technology 2008 trade fair in Malaysia next week. I will post some picture.

http://esevent.com.my/imagelink/printingsp.pdf


rgds

Andre

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