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Post Sat Sep 15, 2007 11:40 am

Losing Premises

Hi guys, not been on for a while due to hectic work and a few work/personal issues :)

I thought I would throw this at you just to see what came back as it is always good to chat to others and get new ideas.

I have been given notice to move out of my unit by the end of January, and basically there is no where else to go. I have been trying to find larger premises for the last 2 years but there is nothing available. So far I have looked at;

working from home workshop - deeds state no business allowed.
Buying land and building a unit - cheapest is £44000 then cost of high quality brick build unit (got to be looking at £150000 all in)
Buying an existing unit - 2 going at the mo, cheapest is £10000, I would need to knock the shed down and build a new one at around £20000.
Renting office (£2200/year) and buying a container as workshop (bit small)
Buying a bus and working out of that (nightmare)
Packing it all in :( and go to spain (losing all goodwill and years of hard work)

Any more ideas would be welcome as this is proving to be very stressful.

Cheers

Dave
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Post Sat Sep 15, 2007 12:10 pm

Working from home - are you sure it is Deeds and not convenant, covenants can be lifted or (in my case) imposed by the Council, after a talk with them I was informed that these covenants were put on years ago and that attitudes have changed and that they would not be enforced unless I was really disruptive. Maybe not ideal but would tide you over until something more permanent came along.
Alan D
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Post Sat Sep 15, 2007 12:34 pm

Thanks Alan, but yep in the deeds, the seller imposed it as there are other properties next to me/him and we all have, let one start a business then they all have the right.

Cheers

Dave
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Post Sat Sep 15, 2007 12:44 pm

I havent been down the rd far enough to know but I work from home and i dont even know what it says in the deeds or anything.

you could get away with it for a while surely. what can they do?
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Post Sat Sep 15, 2007 1:40 pm

Dave sorry to hear of your situation. Have you tried looking into shared work space, I share an industrial unit with 2 other guys. It means I can rent something that I'd never normally be able to afford.
Maybe worth approaching local companies, garages, bodyshops anywhere you can think of that might have a bit of space you could rent.

Working from home could be a real step backwards and really restrict the type of work you do, unless you have the facilities.

As for the Container, a friend of mine has just had a 20 footer plonked on his drive for storage while he decorates his house. Within a week of it being there the local planning officer knocked on his door and told him it had to be moved !
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Post Sat Sep 15, 2007 3:15 pm

Dave, sorry to hear about your problems. Bit confused by your options though, there seems to be a big difference in price between building a new unit on a bit of land that you buy and re-building an existing shed?
I think Dave Harrison's idea of sharing a workspace might work, I have been looking at doing this since I lost my unit and a couple of customers I deal with have asked if I would be interested in renting a bit of space from them.
I have a customer that runs a business from a large portacabin which looks very good. Basically he needed a big yard and couldn't find one big enough with offices or buildings attached so he just rented a yard and bought a double portacabin and had it put in the yard. Cost him about a grand to have electrics and phone put in and he has no running water but that keeps rates down really low.

Don't know what you are paying for rent just now but if there is a real shortage of units then I would have thought it was quite high. Buying an existing unit even if you have to get it rebuilt might not work out as expensive as you think, if you have a good business then getting a mortgage might not be that difficult and you may not be paying anymore a month than you already do, plus you will have acquired an asset that is only going to go up in value.
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Post Sat Sep 15, 2007 3:52 pm

Thanks for the ideas guys.

Bit confused by your options though, there seems to be a big difference in price between building a new unit on a bit of land that you buy and re-building an existing shed?


Martin the council insist you build a brick high quality unit on the land purchased as they already have an office block on the area, basically it is for big investment companies/call centres. The rebuilding is in another industrial estate and I could put a steel clad building on it.

The sharing might work out on one premises I know off but I would have to spend about £8000 to make it useable which is alot to spend on someone elses premises.

I will look into that side of things though.

Cheers

Dave
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Post Sat Sep 15, 2007 5:57 pm

Call in to local farms as lots of them are letting out outbuildings and barns due to the decline in farming.
A sign business can be ideal as it can be low key and not necessarily relying on passing trade.
Cheaper than traditional workspace.
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Post Sat Sep 15, 2007 9:47 pm

Same position here i got two months notice to quit 1 month ago. Had mad panik then long hard look around the area. Have just signed up for 56 square M office/workshop with 35 square M storage all this for just £650.00 month.

So message is just keep looking there are deals to be had out there.

Russell.

P.S. Someone mentioned farms I also have 185 square M barn that I rent at £3 square ft +VAT.
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Post Sat Sep 15, 2007 11:02 pm

Dave, sorry to hear your bad news, but have you consulted your solicitor?
In England (not sure about elswhere) most rented business premises are let on a secure tenure basis, that is the landlord cannot just terminate the lease by giving notice, unless you have broken the terms of the agreement. You must be given first option to renew, and they cannot just for instance, impose unreasonable terms to make prohibitive for you to renew.

Peter
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Post Sun Sep 16, 2007 11:03 am

Hi Peter, it is written into my lease, either party can give 6 months notice to terminate the agreement.

Thanks for all your help and ideas, I will keep you posted

Dave
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Post Sun Sep 16, 2007 11:39 am

I have been placed in a similar position Dave. I rent my unit from the local council and my lease expires next May. I have been told they will only allow me a month by month lease (which means they could ask me to leave at any time with only one months notice). Apparently this is now council policy for all business premises under 3000 sq ft.

Despite my local MP becoming involved the position remains the same. For some reason the council officials fail to understand why a monthly lease is unacceptable to me. Consequently I am actively pursuing the idea of buying my own premises somewhere. The more I think about it the more it seems to make sense to buy a property rather than lease somewhere.
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Post Sun Sep 16, 2007 1:15 pm

I remember you bringing that up before Phil, councils just drive you mad, we have a backward thing one here. Remember to buy the property under another company name (just set up Phills Investments Ltd) then rent it to Right Signs, then it's a business expenditure not an asset.

Dave
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Post Sun Sep 16, 2007 8:50 pm

Buy one, maybe two second hand 20 or 30 foot steel containers...
they will cost you a few hundred each. line with with plywood, run some fluorescent lighting down the length of them. at at the front where the doors open. create a partition with a door. and paint the whole thing one colour, white white walls and ceiling inside. you now have unit that "is yours" and if you do eventually move into premises, you can use this for storage.
the container can be put virtually anywhere.
i know a guy that does auto electrics i think... he rents a space of land for his container for £10 a week in a truck yard thats used for truckers to keep their rigs. on that alone he earns a good living from the truckers getting him to do work.
i have two containers in our yard at the back of our units. one is kitted out to house our cnc router and the other is a proper spray booth with extraction fans etc. couldnt be without them... keeps all the crap from the router in one room and same with spray room etc
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Post Sun Sep 16, 2007 8:58 pm

Isn't it a bit of a squeeze getting a router into a container mate (or maybe not?).

Love to see some pics if you have any as I've thought of doing this myself as well.

Cheers
joe
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Post Sun Sep 16, 2007 9:18 pm

nah, works well mate. i guess it depends on the router bed size. mine is a metre wide, but with gantry etc its about 4ft wide. i think the container is about 6ft wide "inside" by whatever length you buy. mine is about 20ft i think. the router it next to wall on right so you have 2ft to pass it on left. in my head it seems more, so it maybe wider. ive partitioned a small section off with a window in it to house the computer. this keeps all the cutting waste away from the terminal. i also keep some stock engraving boards, signfoam2, thick foamex and the like still lots of room to move around and work from it. i have 3 phase electricity brought into the unit using an armoured cable. very easy done.
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Post Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:28 pm

just for info, a standard container is 7'8" internal, give or take an inch or two. any way rob, you just cant put them anywhere,

Peter
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Post Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:47 pm

thanks peter, yeah when i thought on it, 6ft wide with 4ft router wouldn't have been right as I'm sure there is plenty space round ours. ill get some pictures and post.
as for where they can go... yeah i understand what you mean. i wasn't meaning on a high street or prime spot type thing. i was meaning more were people offer spaces on land to rent and the like. you obviously need a power source so cant be remote. but you know what i mean... they are not deemed as permanent so there is allot of come and go with them, and easily moved.
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Post Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:57 pm

you dont need planning permission for them in scotland...as they are below the minimum size..i only know that cause i was looking into the same thing a while back :D the only thing i didnt like about them was the height of the container its pretty low :-?

nik
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Post Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:59 pm

Nicola Rowlands wrote:the only thing i didnt like about them was the height of the container its pretty low :-?

nik



cant say i noticed :wink: :lol1:

height must be about 7 or 8 ft nik.. what did you plan using yours for?
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Post Sun Sep 16, 2007 11:05 pm

sorry should have mentioned....to do vans in, but size was a bit cramped :-? so rather than laying out for a couple of containers...just as well going for planning permission to do it properly :D

nik
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Post Mon Sep 17, 2007 12:59 am

How would you go about getting Internet in a container does anyone think?
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Post Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:18 am

I have looked at that rob, I guy wants £25/week for one container, but the council here are dead against them. The guy next to me tried that move, had two containers for storing carpets in, council refused to renew his lease until they were removed.

May take the plunge and rent a larger place then sublet if I am allowed to.

Cheers

Dave
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Post Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:56 am

Have you seen this, an article was on the BBC news a few weeks ago about converting old containers into living space.

If you could get a small plot of land or even rent space at a larger companies premises this may be the way to go.

Might be talking a load of b.......s tho.




http://www.archpaper.com/feature_articl ... _news.html

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