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Cast or Calendered what are the differences please?

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Post Thu May 09, 2002 7:45 am

Cast or Calendered what are the differences please?

Down here where the sun shines all day and it never rains :lol: we are paying almost double the cost of calendered for cast vinyls.

The better calendered vinyls are rated for min. 5 years.

I'm starting to wonder if it's worth the extra cost for cast given that many signs for businesses are changed within 5 years, or the businesses don't last, or the paint fades before that.

The exceptions of course are where rivets, contours and blowflies need to be covered, that's understood.

So what do you favour?
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Last edited by Gray Hodge on Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Thu May 09, 2002 10:11 am

We dont use a lot of cast vinyl Gray, most of the work we do is on flat panels and where we need a vinyl that conforms to contours then there is a vinyl called macfleet which takes a bit of getting use to but is great to work with and is a fraction of the cost of cast films. I dont think I have a single customer who is interested in a vinyl that will last for 10 years as none of them look that far ahead or think that within that time they will have grown and will be looking to change everything anyway.
Why not offer your customers the choice, explain the differences and offer the customer a price based on callendered and a more expensive price based on cast, that way the customer makes the choice.
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Post Thu May 09, 2002 7:28 pm

i think in today's market through modern technoligy calandered polymeric films are made to a much higher standard.

the old 80micron 5/7 year films are behind us, although there are still some suppliers hanging on, but only selling on price not quality.

in the uk you can expect to pay a calandered 7 year polymeric price and get a film that is 60 micron thick and is as stable as some budget cast films, with the colour range toboot

and in some cases as stable as some high quality cast films,

however having said that there are some applications that require a good quality 50 micron soft 10 year cast.

then of course you need to pay the price.

i guess its the grade for the job your doing....if its

4 year monomeric , 7 year polymeric or 10 year cast
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Post Fri May 10, 2002 1:28 pm

Thanks Moonbrat, that was a nice, clear and concise reply.
The feedback I'm getting is really confirming what i probably already suspect - use more polymeric, less cast.

I did some comparisons between 3M series 50 and Avery 700 with cutting small letters, Avery was much better.
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Last edited by Gray Hodge on Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Sat May 11, 2002 12:19 am

hi, i think the man with the van isnt going to know the diferance between 5-7 yr or ten yr vinyl, so you could you could charge him for the 10 yr vinyl & put on 5-7 yr. eddie :) :)
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Post Sat May 11, 2002 7:42 am

guys and girls and the ravishing moderator - ever thought of using 3 year matt vinyls for flat cheap and cheerfull vans i regularly give the client two prices and tell him that after 3 years it may shrink slightly and it will cost 50 quid less to do approx 60 per cent go for the cheaper option!! try it vans do look just as good with a matt text applied max cost 2 quid a metre @ 1220 wide good colour ranges try it make a bob or two !
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Post Sat May 11, 2002 10:53 am

Eddie you are a rascal, I'm going to tell on you!

Steve, strange as it may seem, in 20 years of cutting vinyl I've never once used matt vinyl, don't ask me why.

Regardless of the vinyl used, the labour component is going to be the same, so I think for me there must be a significant material saving to make it worthwhile.

Another problem I have with vinyl is that if I want to stock a good range of colours I need to minimise the types of vinyls I stock.

I don't know about anyone else, but I hate keeping a range of colours in cast, calendered and cheaper vinyl.

My Holy Grail is to find one vinyl that will meet most of the work I do.
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Last edited by Gray Hodge on Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Sat May 11, 2002 11:27 am

..
Last edited by Lorraine Buchan on Fri Apr 23, 2004 11:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Sat May 11, 2002 11:44 am

I agree with Gray and Lorraine on this one. I use 751 Oracal for most of my work. Cheaper vinyls can also be more difficult (slower) to weed which negates any cost saving. I also like to use a standard range of colours and it would be expensive to keep a stock of different colours in a range of vinyl types. Banner vinyl is the exception of course. And occasionaly a customer will specify a specific colour from a specific manufaturer in which case I will pass on the additional costs involved in doing this. By sticking with the same range I can also match work done a few years ago by looking up old files in which I try and always record the colour codes of the vinyls used.
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Post Sat May 11, 2002 6:02 pm

Just for my part...I keep about 30-40 vinlys in stock, though only about 20 of these are kept in any qty. As Lorraine said I too usually put my order together and then add a couple of 10-20 metre rolls of something a little fringe or different! This way I build up the diversity of my stock and don't tend to miss the extra cost. As I like to do decorative work, often with variations of the same colour, these little 'order add-ons' help me to give variety in my designs.

I suppose for most vinyl work I try to make sure that the cost of the materials is no more than 5% of the value of the work so , whilst I'm not going to refuse a discount when it's offered, the actual meterage price shouldn't matter too much!

So far - I'm very pleased with 751 - it's very......adaptable! (wish I could say the same for Europoint!)

I keep some matts - some banner and a few odd-balls like chrome silver and gold, flourescents, reflectives etc.

more soon
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Post Sun May 12, 2002 9:19 am

I think I have about 50 vinyls in stock, and like Mike, about 10-15 in any quantity.
I use a bit of reflective because of the large amount of work I do for the mining industry.

My lot is a mixture of calon (arlon) cast, avery 700 calendered and some 3m cast.
I think I would regard the cost savings between cast and polymeric worthwhile, but some cheaper vinyls are not worth stocking.
I plan to reduce the amount of cast vinyl I've been buying from now on.
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Last edited by Gray Hodge on Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Sun May 12, 2002 8:35 pm

I only stock one grade. 7 year + calendar from europoint.
We do stock banner vinyl, reflective & some V-wrap

In the past we stocked 3-4 year and we had some budget vinyls for one-day life signs and exhibitions. We always wanted to be prepared for whatever customer comes through the door. However 99% is 7-year oracal.
One day we were doing a job for a very large repeat business customer. We did 6 vans on a Monday 6 on a Wednesday. Lots of text and graphics on them all.
One month later we get a call from a very unhappy customer. Half the vans are a mess he says. Get out here and sort it pronto. We did, only to be faced with 6 vans all with peeling vinyl and lots of bits missing.
(Cutting the story short) we had used the budget stuff by mistake on half of the vans.
Exact same colour & make. But, the life was non-existing.
We stripped them, re-done them & apologised. We also explained what had happened. Luckily for us they understood.
That was the last time we stocked various grades of vinyl.

The best way we find in stocking vinyls is to pick the colours you think you use most of. Say 20 colours, all with the same life. Then take note of their codes & make a large colour chart for the reception. Each with the code next to it.
When a customer comes in & asks what colours do you have. Point to the chart and say “this is the colours we stock.” Giving to many options can be a problem in itself with customers that can’t decide or in most cases pick the colour you don’t have.
If they say I don’t like those colours cant I get more. Say yes but we have to order them in. and there’s a min order of 20mtrs per colour. This normally changes their mind. But if it doesn’t they pay the extra to get it in. and you have just got yourself a free 10-15 metres left over for stock.
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Post Mon May 13, 2002 12:48 am

Good reply Robert, thanks, you put it very well. That one is worth framing.

You'd think that after 20 years of cutting vinyl I would have it all together. Trouble is, the vinyl makers keep moving the goalposts, at least that's my excuse!
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